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SoCalDude
01-22-2005, 10:09 AM
I am seeing the general statment "AP holders are becoming the second class citizens" more and more - but do not think I have seen a reason why this statment is being tossed around so much. This is a statment I strongly disagree with from every aspect I can think of. So I would like the people who toss this statment around to tell me exactly why you say it.

As a passholder we get many things, more than was promised to us when we got the pass. We are always treated very nice by the CMs - even after showing our pass when needed (entry to the park, discounts on items, etc).

I enjoy my time ( ~3 years ) as a passholder 100%, and just wonder why some people feel the need to make jaded statments such as they make. My main question is if you do not like how Disney is treating you as a passholder - why are you still a passholder?

:confused:

I Heart Disneyland!
01-22-2005, 10:24 AM
I enjoy my time ( ~3 years ) as a passholder 100%, and just wonder why some people feel the need to make jaded statments such as they make. My main question is if you do not like how Disney is treating you as a passholder - why are you still a passholder?

:confused:

Maybe those who make the comments are WAY jealous, like me, because you are in So Cal and can HAVE an AP!!! :) (I'd never dis you for it though!)

The Lovely Mrs. tod
01-22-2005, 10:37 AM
I've never been treated bad personally because I'm a Passholder, except here on the boards. Tod and I paid $50.00 for our first annual passes, we've been at this a long, long time. Like I said earlier, none of us wear the lanyards w/pins (we're not into pin trading, that's why) and we don't like to have our passes visible all the time, but that's just us. CM's always seem pleased to give us the discount when we ask and when we were buying some Spode at the after the holidays 50% off sale the CM who rang us up encouraged us to use those passes, she said "you're REALLY getting a good deal that way..."

I was chatting with a CM yesterday though, very nice, but she said they're having problems with passholders who have Deluxe or So. Cal passes trying to get the discount by waving the pass at busy CM's at closing and not wanting to hand it to them so they can verify if it's Premium. That kind of thing doesn't get passholders a good reputation I think.

Now in a general, corporate sort of way do I think AP's are being relegated to 2nd class status...yes, I do...but I also think DL guests in general are getting a bit less special treatment than we used to. Although I think there's still fall-out from the Pressler reign and it will take some time to fully repair the damage that the bottom liners did. And maybe, as Annual Passholders, we're noticing things like that more, we tend to compare the way it is now with the way it was then and we personalize it, that's human nature.

Will we renew? Actually, we're debating. In the last three or four years our passes have jumped about $100 each. That's a lot of money when you multiply it out by four. And we hold passes to other parks and they cost a lot less and give us a lot of pleasure too (Universal, Sea World and the S.D. Zoo). And I'm sure they have burned out cast, or team members too, but I, as yet, haven't noticed them signing on the various discussion boards and taking their hostility out on their guests.

-TLMt

disney jones
01-22-2005, 10:51 AM
our short time as APs have definitely been a positive experience too at the parks. the discounts are great as well as the special offers.

we don't outwardly wear and display our APs (mainly afraid of losing them), but whenever we have to use them, the CMs are very nice, especially at the front gate where the call us by name.

i suppose the people who wear the APs out visibilbly are just like the ones who wear their park-hoppers out visibly - they just do it for convenience for FPs. oh, i suppose some do it to flaunt their status, but if they do, i feel more sorry than scorn for them.

there will always be jerks in the parks, AP or not, and they'll tend to be treated accordingly. and if you treat people with dignity and are polite, you usually get that in return.

SCUBAbe
01-22-2005, 11:59 AM
I have noticed subtle difference in the way they treat regular guests and AP guests. When we entered once the CM was being very friendly to everyone with tickets. Smiling, talking, asking if they are enjoying their visit. We walked through with our AP's, she scanned them and mumbled (unsmiling) "enjoy your visit." My child commented that she thought it was a bit rude.

My only other experience has been for the TOT AP preview. The two CM's standing outside the event the night before were going on and on about how AP's are rude and crazy. They gave several examples, but made it clear that we did not fit into that category...LOL

Now as far as Rude-crazy acting AP holders....well, I have seen more of them than rude CM's. Which is probably why some CM's treat all AP holders a little less special than regular guests. I have seen AP holders doing the 2 finger point trying to direct traffic away from the wheelchair in their party, while saying "keep to the right". I have been screamed at by an AP holder for trying to cross their prime viewing area before the electeic parade started . They had put stuffed animas in a row across the hollywood area. No people were their yet just stuffed animals. We went to step over the stuffed animals and the crazy woman got right in my face and strated screaming at me to cross somewhere else. There are many smaller examples I notice on every visit.

The only reason I know that these people were AP holders is because they proudly where their passes around their necks and then act like idiots in public. So, I can't really blame CM's for treating AP holders a bit different. I would to if I was dealing with wacked out pass holders all day. Why do the ones who act in ways that give all AP holders a bad name wear them out in the open or try to use it as leverage. For example when trying to get something from a CM, "well, I'm a PREMIUM pass holder..." I really don't think anyone care if your a passholder or what level you hvae....JMO...:)

AliciasMom
01-22-2005, 12:08 PM
I'll be honest and say I never felt bad about having an annual pass until I started reading mousepad. I rarely have my pass out anyway because I never have to use fastpass/discounts.

Jerks buy variety of tickets, from 1 day passes to the most expensive AP. Sometimes it's just easier to scapegoat one group when trashtalking rude guests. That's just my take on it.

SCUBAbe
01-22-2005, 12:20 PM
Jerks buy variety of tickets, from 1 day passes to the most expensive AP. Sometimes it's just easier to scapegoat one group when trashtalking rude guests. That's just my take on it.

thats true, but when the one group is advertising who they are either verbally or by having a pass out then it's easier to pigeon hole them...Next time we go we'll have regualr tickets until we upgrade them. I could be one of those people who it's difficult to be nice to...or maybe I'm overly sensitive and just think I'm seeing differences in treatment. I think the CM's do a great job there. I know if I worked there and noticed a group always acting in a rude annoying way I wouldn't be very nice to them either. Thats probably why I don't enjoy working with the public....LOL..However, the Ap holders that I witnessed being rude were. I know what I saw and what I heard.

AliciasMom
01-22-2005, 12:28 PM
thats true, but when the one group is advertising who they are either verbally or by having a pass out then it's easier to pigeon hole them...Next time we go we'll have regualr tickets until we upgrade them. I could be one of those people who it's difficult to be nice to...or maybe I'm overly sensitive and just think I'm seeing differences in treatment. I think the CM's do a great job there. I know if I worked there and noticed a group always acting in a rude annoying way I wouldn't be very nice to them either. Thats probably why I don't enjoy working with the public....LOL..However, the Ap holders that I witnessed being rude were. I know what I saw and what I heard.

I know what you're saying. I worked at a theme park (a ghetto one at that) and even there some season passholders were jerks. Some 1 day passholders were jerks to us too but when we bashed stupid guests we usually just slammed the season passholders because it was easier. I can be oversensitive too that's why when I have to hand over my season pass I always say good morning and smile at the CM and have my daughter say hi (which she always does without prompting) hoping that the CM won't treat me differently than the people ahead of me. So far I had only one ticket taker not be cheerful, but he was at DCA so I brushed it off ;) .

SoCalDude
01-22-2005, 02:51 PM
I was chatting with a CM yesterday though, very nice, but she said they're having problems with passholders who have Deluxe or So. Cal passes trying to get the discount by waving the pass at busy CM's at closing and not wanting to hand it to them so they can verify if it's Premium. That kind of thing doesn't get passholders a good reputation I think.

LOL - that is just cheap people, I have seen people no passes trying to use AAA cards to get discounts, but to me that does not equal AAA members are 2nd class guests.


but whenever we have to use them, the CMs are very nice, especially at the front gate where the call us by name.

vs


When we entered once the CM was being very friendly to everyone with tickets. Smiling, talking, asking if they are enjoying their visit. We walked through with our AP's, she scanned them and mumbled (unsmiling) "enjoy your visit." My child commented that she thought it was a bit rude.

Our experience is more inline with the first reply. When we enter the parks 95% of the time the CM greets us by name (usually one of the kids) and gives us some sort of nice greeting. Heck when we went on my b-day the CM said "Happy Birthday Mark!" - and NO, I was not wearing any sort of sticker or button or anything that gave away it was my b-day, I guess when she scanned my pass it told her there, that is the ONLY way she would have known. I would say that is very nice and fits with my overall experience with the CMs at the park entrance both at DL and DCA.


there will always be jerks in the parks, AP or not, and they'll tend to be treated accordingly. and if you treat people with dignity and are polite, you usually get that in return.

100% true - and not just at DL, but I would say this is true everyplace.


My only other experience has been for the TOT AP preview. The two CM's standing outside the event the night before were going on and on about how AP's are rude and crazy. They gave several examples, but made it clear that we did not fit into that category...LOL

Well, then that just shows it is certian guests, not APers in general. And as a former (non-Disney) park employee - I can tell you the non-passholders usually feel like they are owed more since they are forced to cram everything into a day or two as opposed to over a year.

Point is - you are going to have jerks regardless of what type of ticket they have. A nice person is not transformed into a jerk when you put an AP in their hand. The same goes for CMs, a nice person does not trun into a rude person when they put on a uniform.

But, this is not really what I was talking about. From what I have seen when the term "AP holders are becoming the second class citizens" it means by the Disney COMPANY, at least from how I read the posts. A few CMs do not make policy for the parks.

Emma
01-22-2005, 02:56 PM
We live in Seattle, but we buy an annual pass every year, and I have never been treated poorly for it, by anyone at the park. And we don't feel bad about having it. Nobody should. It's an option that Disney gives us, and it saves us $$.

disneyperson
01-22-2005, 03:07 PM
We live in Seattle, but we buy an annual pass every year, and I have never been treated poorly for it, by anyone at the park. And we don't feel bad about having it. Nobody should. It's an option that Disney gives us, and it saves us $$.
Yeah, everything she said, except the living in Seattle part.

Opus1guy
01-22-2005, 04:50 PM
I think it's funny how many Cast Members assume I'm an Annual Passholder just because we're discussing something and I seem generally knowledgeable. When I tell them I'm not an Annual Passholder, they usually then ask if I "work for the Company?"

They seem genuinely surprised when I tell them I came in on a ticket, even though I may not mention that ticket was complimentary via a Club 33 reservation or one from my old stash of comp paper tickets.

So some of them are "profiling"...that's for sure. :)

TimBuk2
01-22-2005, 05:01 PM
The word now is the APs are going up to

$379 for Premium.

And that's suppose to happen this Spring. BUMMER !!

Gathrn2
01-22-2005, 06:05 PM
Ok, lets see if I can outline why I feel penalized by having an AP. I am still a bit disapointed on this so forgive me if it comes across a bit more unhappy than I would like.

I were looking at vacation packages to stay at the DLH, and enjoy a vacation with the family. Upon discussing the 50th with the wife, we decided to see about upgrading to AP's. We figured that we would use them sometime during the 50th, and perhaps save a little $$$. Well they gladly booked a vacation package for us and upgraded our tickets to AP's for the extra $$$, and sent us our tickets and such. The problem came when we reviewed everything they sent. Apparently, some of the bennies that you get by booking a package have nothing to do with the package but rather with the park-hopper tickets. I lost those bennies when I upgraded, and did not even know it. So the value I though I was getting by booking a package deal was not as big of a value as I thought. That left me with the following question:
Why am I penalized for upgrading to AP's?
Why would I be treated better if I did not spend the $$$ to upgrade to an AP?

I am staying on property, Live more than 12 hours away and even booked everything on the package deal, not the AP rate... But I really do feel that I was penalized for upgrading my tickets.

In reality it is not that bad, I only lost $50 in ESPN zone cards for the kids, and early entry in Fantasy Land (I can deal with the loss of the early entry...) but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I just wish I knew what I was loosing by buying an AP instead of upgrading it at the park.

vegasmommytoDL
01-22-2005, 07:10 PM
Why am I penalized for upgrading to AP's?

I agree with you on that one. Thats really not fair. Too bad they don't tell people that they'd be better off upgrading at the park. Besides, that way you can be sure there will be no blackouts (I know they only sell Premium with the packages so I guess that really doesn't apply in this case).

Someone posted the Premium rate as possibly going up again... do they usually do that mid-season/year?? Will it be for the Deluxe too?

Thanks.
-Julia

Susan L
01-22-2005, 07:14 PM
I think APers are the previlege ones. You guys live close enough to go several times a year. Or you got the money to go several times a year. I only wish I could be so lucky.

Back in the 60's and 70's when I growing up in the LA area I'm not even sure they had AP's but I do remember going as previleged guest with our neighbors who worked for McDonald Douglas or Hughes Aircraft. We also went as a family about 2 or 3 times a year. But since I moved away to No CA its not that way anymore. Now I'm lucky if I get to DL every 18 months or so.

TimBuk2
01-22-2005, 07:15 PM
Someone posted the Premium rate as possibly going up again... do they usually do that mid-season/year?? Will it be for the Deluxe too?


NOT POSSIBLY - DEFINETLY !!

I don't think there's any set pattern to their madness when they raise the AP rates. Just whenever they feel like it. But as we've been getting closer to the 50th, it seems to go up a higher percentage each time.

I can see $5, $10, or $20. But this time it's $50 more for the P-AP. I seem to recall not too long ago it was only $179, and now it will be $379 - WOW !

TimBuk2
01-22-2005, 07:26 PM
I think APers are the previlege ones. You guys live close enough to go several times a year. Or you got the money to go several times a year. I only wish I could be so lucky.

Whose to say you can't move closer to DLR?

Getting a new AP was nice, but quite nerve racking. Every year I would complain again about the prices going up. And had to figure out if it was worth it. I had it about 6 of the past 9 years.

I figure if you save your change for a "Rainy Day at Disneyland", it would only cost you $0.90 cents per day for the entire year, it will pay for a Premium Pass (at today's rate of $329). That sounds easy to me! And if you don't get the Starbucks coffee every morning, that's an extra $4 per day. Piece o' cake.

Would I normally go 6 times a year (6 x $53), probably not. But when I had the pass I was assured I could go any day I wanted (except Christmas when they closed early due to the crowds)

I've since moved away and now coming back for the 50th in July, I will only get a 3-day Hopper. Seems to be a waste, but at today's AP prices, that's all I will need. I'm closer to WDW Florida - where the AP is ONLY $515 !! But with that you get 4 parks and water parks.
.
.

Corwin17
01-22-2005, 07:38 PM
NOT POSSIBLY - DEFINETLY !!...and now it will be $379 - WOW !If that is true (not denying, just this is the first I've heard it), this will be my last AP. (It's been long rumored that DLR *WANTS* to get rid of APs in favor of day guests.)

Lets see ... our WDW AP is (when we got it in October) $379 ... that's for FOUR FULL PARKS!!!!

I honestly feel that I get more of a value when I fly to Forida than I'm getting here.

TimBuk2
01-22-2005, 07:40 PM
If that is true (not denying, just this is the first I've heard it), this will be my last AP. (It's been long rumored that DLR *WANTS* to get rid of APs in favor of day guests.)

Lets see ... our WDW AP is (when we got it in October) $379 ... that's for FOUR FULL PARKS!!!!

I honestly feel that I get more of a value when I fly to Forida than I'm getting here.

I totally agree about Florida. And, yes, I heard the same about their ATTITUDE about APs - again. They did that before close to when DCA was opening and would not let anybody get new passes. That was a huge mess, as usual.

Besides the fact they seem to forget that the DLR parks get more money from us on food and other stuff, than the cost of the AP itself !

The Lovely Mrs. tod
01-22-2005, 07:44 PM
I can see $5, $10, or $20. But this time it's $50 more for the P-AP. I seem to recall not too long ago it was only $179, and now it will be $379 - WOW !

We are up in June. Last June we renewed for $279. That's not a raise of $50...that's a raise of $100. Per pass. Times 4.

And yes, I look at things like that and I think...Disney doesn't want us.

-TLMt

Corwin17
01-22-2005, 08:10 PM
We are up in June. Last June we renewed for $279. That's not a raise of $50...that's a raise of $100. Per pass. Times 4.Go back 6 months before that ... they were $199! :eek: That's right $130 in 10 months ... now another $50?!?!

Sad to say, but I'm not likely to renew next year. I hate to give into the vampires, but I can only bleed so much.

Corwin17
01-22-2005, 08:17 PM
in re: APs as 2nd class citizens

I'm going to keep a *VERY* close eye on the developments talked about in another thread ... namely the "AP specific entrances".

Many people seem to see this as a good thing, but I am too much of a pessimist.

It has been long talked about that the AP-to-DayGuest ratio is 7-to-3. That means on a yearly basis, most of the entrances are APs.

If APs are shunted to specific gates ... and say the AP/Day gate ratio is 3/7 (opposite the people ratio), that's gonna be quite a delay for APs getting in the parks.

Crazy? Maybe. But it would fit some of the rumors/patterns of late.

TimBuk2
01-22-2005, 08:21 PM
Here's a thought - If you are planning to go into DCA, go thru the Grand Cal hotel and use that entrance, it's never too busy. And not too many people know it's for ANYBODY, not just hotel guests.

Corwin17
01-22-2005, 08:25 PM
Here's a thought - If you are planning to go into DCA, go thru the Grand Cal hotel and use that entrance, it's never too busy. And not too many people know it's for ANYBODY, not just hotel guests.IIRC, you cannot do that for 'first entry' unless you are a GCH guest. :crying: You can do it for re-entry though. :)