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View Full Version : How Does Height Check System REALLY Work?



RideMax Mark
12-12-2001, 06:29 AM
I would think that the new system uses SONAR (bouncing a high-frequency sound wave off the person's head and measuring the return time), rather than a RADIO WAVE, as Adrienne says in the article today.

OK, so this is quibbling with details, but does anyone know how this thing really works?

Thanks,
Mark
---
Spend less time in line with RideMax for Disneyland! (http://www.ridemax.com)

Nigel2
12-12-2001, 08:22 AM
No the way it really works is a bunch of imps that disney took hostage and they give them a tape measure and threaten to make them work in ISW if they don't do a good job.:D

adriennek
12-12-2001, 08:57 AM
Mark,

I'm 99% sure you're right. I think it's sonar, too. Sorry. My mistype. I'll try to find someone to fix it.

Adrienne K

RideMax Mark
12-12-2001, 09:34 AM
No big deal. I haven't actually seen the measuring devices yet, but I wondered if they use an ultrasonic ranger (http://www.acroname.com/robotics/parts/R93-SRF04.html) internally to do the work.

Mark
---
Spend less time in line with RideMax for Disneyland! (http://www.ridemax.com)

Bill Catherall
12-12-2001, 09:39 AM
Isn't sonar what you use underwater (use audible pings and measure the time it takes for the pong to return)? If it is some kind of ping system it's most likely radar (uses radio waves), infrared, perhaps even an IR or invisible laser. I really doubt it's sonar. Sound wouldn't be realiable enough in air because the speed of sound varies depending on air temperature/pressure. You'd have to recalibrate every unit every day, sometimes multiple times per day.

RideMax Mark
12-12-2001, 09:53 AM
Bill,

I really didn't mean "sonar" in the "naval" sense, but I'd still be willing to bet it's an ultrasonic system, rather than some form of light or radio. I doubt that the variance in the speed of sound due to air pressure, etc., is that great over such a short distance.

Since this thing needs to have a resolution of less than 1/4" or so, it would be much easier for a microcontroller to take a measurement of an ultrasonic pulse travelling at 1100 ft/sec than a light pulse bouncing back at 186,000 MILES/sec, and still get the required resolution.

Again, this is just my guess, though...

Mark
---
Spend less time in line with RideMax for Disneyland! (http://www.ridemax.com)

MactechCM
12-12-2001, 10:33 AM
I was working Indiana Jones when they were testing the system, and was one of the people on the "special project", so got to use it for 8 hours. It does use an ultrasonic beam to measure.

My impressions of the system so far: It cut down on arguments with parents tremendously. Location for the devices needs to be worked out (where we had it for the test would be horrible if it ended up there).

The new argument - My child had gotten the wristband earlier and took it/cut it off. Re-measuring the child on the device showed them in the Blue range (everything but Indiana Jones), and with the parent insisiting that they had gotten a green band earlier, we measured on our old height stick - the child was a good 2 inches too short. Asked them where they got the green band - someone inside put it on the child - funny - we only have the measurment device and bands outside... nice try.

The other problem was with parents having one child who was tall enough, and another who was too small. They would get the wristband (and right now the wristbands are cut a little too long, so it is tough to put them on tight), and slip it off later in the day and put it on the smaller child. Just because your child has a green wristband, does not mean we will not check them, and have the right to turn them away if they don't measure up. --- Height requirments are there for the SAFTEY of your child - yes, it's a bummer that your child can't ride our attraction right now, but I would rather have your child come back and enjoy it several times, than possibly go on and be injured.

I think the best place for the measuring devices/wristbands would be at the main gates - it may slow down getting into the park, but if every child was wristbanded at the enterance, it would really speed up the lines on every ride.

my $.02

Bill Catherall
12-12-2001, 11:00 AM
Mark - Yeah, that makes sense. I see that the device you linked to uses what looks like some kind of "stereo imaging" where it has 2 sensors/immitters. This would probably give pretty good results.

RideMax Mark
12-12-2001, 11:10 AM
Bill -- One of the transducers is used as an emitter, the other one as a receiver.

Wow, this is probably enough detail to put the whole rest of the board to sleep! :p

Mark
---
Spend less time in line with RideMax for Disneyland! (http://www.ridemax.com)

rexfarms
12-12-2001, 02:42 PM
These wristbands seem kinda like at a carnival. Why couldnt you just cut one off, and then tape/glue it on to another person. But whatever, I can ride everything. lol

adriennek
12-12-2001, 02:50 PM
The CM I got my info from had told me sound waves. For some reason, when I typed my article, I typed radio. I went back and made it sound. Now it says ultrasonic.

Well, I'm not DocKrock, I'm just married to him ;) For my purposes, it works with "invisible waves" and they're all the same to me!

I'm glad to hear that those parents didn't get past you, MactechCM. I'm one of those old-fashioned people who buys a ticket for her 3-y/o child and firmly believes in following height restrictions.

As someone posted on another thread about unreasonable guests, why do I get the feeling that those guests who wanted their 2-inches too short children to go on the ride, would be the first ones to sue if something happened to their children on the ride?

I hope that they keep the "old" sticks around for awhile to "prove" to doubters-- although that stick at Jumpin' Jellyfish needs to be fixed! (Just cut an inch off the bottom...)

Adrienne K

mousey_girl
12-12-2001, 07:24 PM
When they used it on Nickolas Friday, it said he was blue. When we tested him on Saturday it said green. The cobra at the front of Indy showed him more than an inch over the height limit. This was the same time of day. No, I did not have him in thick or double socks or even platform tennies (although I do know people who do that and it ticks me off). The bottom line is I tried to tell the CM that there was a problem and instead of placing him next to the cobra some woman placed a blue band on him. It was not being able for him to go on the ride that upset me, it was the way we were treated. I was NOT trying to get away with anything, I just wanted my 47 inch son to be able to ride the one ride he has never been able to go on. We were not given a choice, even tho I know now that it was voluntary. The woman who placed the blue wrist band on him did not ask us if we wanted it, she just did it without looking at us. Nickolas has a painful growth on his wrist and when she did that she hurt him. That, along with being treated like a criminal is why I went off on the CM who measured him. They need to figure out why it measured him differently when it was located in a different area of the park. When the woman placed the band on him, the CM that measured him gave me a smug "that is so he doesnt get measured anywhere else." I fired back, "he never has before." We never even took him to DL when he was too short, we waited until we knew he was tall enoug for the majority of the rides. I think my biggest problem was that I was viewed by the CM as a parent that didn't care that the child would be in danger. Nothing could be further from the truth.

OK, that is the last time I vent about the height check system. I promise!! :)

Bill Catherall
12-12-2001, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by RideMax Mark
Bill -- One of the transducers is used as an emitter, the other one as a receiver.
Ok. I see now.



Wow, this is probably enough detail to put the whole rest of the board to sleep! :p
Not me! :D

One question on the rist straps...Why can't they just use a handstamp? Can't be tranfered, isn't uncomfortable, doesn't get in the way. Not as easy to see, but the CM can just ask.

Morrigoon
12-12-2001, 07:35 PM
Handstamps can be transferred. And no, I won't tell you how.

mousey_girl
12-12-2001, 07:36 PM
Plus most kids think that hand stamps are great!

rihard2000
12-12-2001, 08:26 PM
Having worked at Cedar Point for 8 years, I'd say that it sounds like a good idea to me to have measuring done by a machine. This might help to eliminate some of the arguing parents. You can't argue with the machine, but you can argue with the person running it. Most parents will take technologies word for it though.

The problem I see with the program is being discussed already. The Disney signs say that the system will allow a child to be measured "only once". We all know that there are ways of getting a wristband onto a child other than the one the wristband was issued for.

At Cedar Point our "official measurements" are done by staff in the Park Operations office. As the wristbands are being issued it is explained to the parent that the child wearing the band will still be measured at each ride. The wristband is there to help make the decisions for the ride operators easier. When a ride operator measures one of those kids who are borderline, a quick look at the wristband tells the operator the child is tall enough. When a ride operator measures a child with a wristband and the child is much shorter than the stick (like when a parent swaps a wristband) a supervisor is called to the location to remove the false wristband.

Disney will most likely have to alter the program a bit to keep up a standard of safety. Every child should still be measured at the ride even if they have a wristband, and parents should know the child will be measured again. The bands will just help to speed things up by eliminating time consuming arguments caused by scrutiny, and by notifying parents ahead of time what rides a child can and cannot ride. Thus the parents won't even bother to approach a ride because the band already says they can't ride.

Morrigoon
12-12-2001, 11:52 PM
Good argument

Nigel2
12-13-2001, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by Morrigoon
Handstamps can be transferred. And no, I won't tell you how.
I have heard with simple stamps that lack text all you have to do is wet the surface (lick) and press the stamped flesh to who ever needs it. But since I am tall enough I don't bother.

Bill Catherall
12-13-2001, 12:50 PM
I'm sure there are types of ink that, once dried, can't be transferred. You don't want a water soluble ink because it will come off too easily. And so what if it's semi-permanent. Like mousey_girl said...kids like handstamps.

I'm a little confused on one of the so-called benefits. How is this suppose to speed up the lines? The speed at which a line moves depends on how fast the ride is being loaded. Not how fast they measure people while in line. If a line is 30 minutes it will stay 30 minutes if a) nobody gets measured, or b) you are stuck behind somebody that takes 29 minutes to measure. Somebody explain this to me.

adriennek
12-13-2001, 03:56 PM
Bill,

This is probably poor form for me to do this, but I'd rather say, "Geez, what was I thinking" than pretend I'm a brain surgeon and have everyone think, "Wow, she's a dork." (I'm sure people think that anyway, but-- oh well, I can't please them all!)

In theory, if the wristbands were reliable, a family wouldn't save time in line but could avoid having to stop at every attraction to be re-measured. So that's what I meant to say in my article.

Since then, I've thought about it more. It's not really going to happen that way, because 1- enough people are dishonest and try to cheat the system and 2- enough people do stupid stuff and then try to sue Disney when they get hurt-- So kids are still going to get re-measured. I've had scads of e-mail since my story went up and since they started this system. Like RiHard suggested, the system is definitely going to be tweaked a bit before it's made permanent. That sign about only being measured once will probably be altered.

I have a new opinion about the wristbands. It isn't going to help a family interact with CMs but with each other. If a child has a blue wristband, the parents should be able to look at an attraction and see if the child would be tall enough to ride it.

It may or may not be "more" convenient for families. I'll use my experience at Legoland as an example. When we go to Legoland, Matthew usually gets a red wristband. When we walk to an attraction, I can look at the sign and it says: "these wristband colors may ride". Instantly I know whether or not I should bother to get in line-- do I send Kevin to ride and Matthew and I do something else, etc.

I don't know that it will save time. I think that for some people, it will require less thinking and that may make it more convenient.

Mousey girl-- Did you stop at City Hall to report your experience with the wristband system? I would hope so. When they're testing something out, they need to know about these mistakes to keep them from happening in the future. We all know that people try to cheat the system, but CMs need to remember that there are honest guests out there, too and the system may be imperfect! That's why they still have the sticks there for now!!

Adrienne K

Bill Catherall
12-13-2001, 04:55 PM
Adrienne - Thanks for the clarification. I thought perhaps your contact, or somebody from the inside fed you that line about it speeding up the lines. What you have said in your last response really makes sense.

I'm also wondering what the wrist bands are made of. Are they those hospital-like plastic bands that snap together and can't be removed without cutting? Or are they those tape-together kind of a "clothy" like plastic or "untearable paper" bands? My experiences with wrist bands has been that unless they are made of some kind breathable cloth they are uncomfortable because your skin will sweat underneath. This is especially irritating on hot days. Also, the type that join together with adhesive tend to be difficult to assemble without getting the adhesive area stuck to your skin. Another irritant. I'm thinking that not all kids will like them and some will constantly be pulling on them. (My kids have never complained about wrist bands before, but they've also never worn them for over 12 hours. Personally, I hate wearing a wrist band. I don't even wear a wrist watch.)

mousey_girl
12-13-2001, 06:48 PM
No, I didn't go to City Hall. I didn't even think about it. After we left the ride, we took pictures with Jasmine and Aladdin and wandered over to DCA.

As for what the bands are made of: they are cheapy plastic type bands that are used at most county fairs. They are hard (but not impossible) to get off. They don't snap, but used some sort of super sticky adhesive. Once you take them off they are pretty much trashed.