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View Full Version : For All That Think Walt Would Hate DCA, He Wanted To Do It Himself!



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calguy77
12-25-2004, 08:16 PM
That's right, gang. According to Buzz Price (Walt's trusted associate. The man who -- while he was working with C.V. Wood at the Stanford Research Institute -- helped determine where Disneyland should actually be built), Walt Disney actually toyed with the idea of building a theme park right next door to the "Happiest Place on Earth" that would have celebrated California Living. An early 1960s version of DCA, if you will.

For the rest of the article, go to Jim Hill Media: http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/articles/showarticle.php?ID=1235

Disney Vault
12-25-2004, 08:25 PM
But he wouldn't have been cheap about it and would have had more rides and better themeing.

Disneyfreak
12-25-2004, 09:03 PM
It is not the theme that is bothering us, it is how cheap they built it. It is nothing compared to Disneyland, nor does it have any history value to it.

Uncle Remus
12-25-2004, 09:27 PM
couldnt he have possibly meant an epcot type of version of california... not celebrating it but finding ways to make it better. and i love the matter of fact tone of the article, it made me say to myself "man was i dumb!"

Tigertail777
12-26-2004, 04:24 AM
If you read some of my past postings on DCA, you'll note I said that the theme could possibly work IF it was better thought out and had much more in depth theming. As others stated I personally had no problem with the california theme, but its execution.

And I do still very highly doubt that Walt would have installed the regular carnival rides that he seemed to so despise, which comprises a very large part of the park. I for sure majorly doubt he would allow any of the carnival midaway games that are in paradise pier.

I think Walt would have blown us away with something really unexpected that fit the California theme far better, certaintly I am sure he would have had some very detailed family dark rides planned from the very beginning, and not used the excuse of waiting for the park to grow. Disneyland opened with the very best that Walt could afford at the time, I am sure the second gate would have been the same way.

calguy77
12-26-2004, 06:42 AM
I'm glad you all talked to Walt, and he told you this. I think someone who worked close with him and said that this was an idea on his plate would know a bit more. but glad to see you have spoke with him so much, and i can beleive you think 700+ million is cheap, anyone remember when MGM studios opened in Florida, it had one ride the rest where exhibits. So i think DCA made out pretty good.

kbanmen
12-26-2004, 09:50 AM
I'm glad you all talked to Walt, and he told you this. I think someone who worked close with him and said that this was an idea on his plate would know a bit more. but glad to see you have spoke with him so much, and i can beleive you think 700+ million is cheap, anyone remember when MGM studios opened in Florida, it had one ride the rest where exhibits. So i think DCA made out pretty good.

I agree with you calguy..I am sick of people bashing DCA..i mean walt envisioned this in 1961 poeple..... it wasnt made cheap...it cost mega mega bucks to build it..and in time more will be added..just like some of the other parks in walk disney world..I mean it is a new park..it needs time to grow

DaddyB
12-26-2004, 10:36 AM
I'd like to put forth the suggestion that what seemed like a good idea in 1961 was not neccesarily a good idea in 1999. After all, the Berlin Wall was put up in 1961 (on the day of my birth!) and was torn down before DCA opened. A Bomb shelter in everyone's back yard also seemed like a good idea in 1961.

And who said that it was ever a good idea in 1961, in the first place? Just because Walt ordered research on this, doesn't mean that he ever had any intentions of following through with it, does it? I haven't read the book that you refer to, but you do make mention that there were ONE HUNDRED TEN different studies, of which, this was 61st. So he had ideas before this, and ideas after this all researched. Seems to me like he thought about it, and then threw the idea out.

I would be more interested to know what "ERA, Economic Research Associates" had to say about:
1) opening a second gate in Anaheim
2) the whole California Living concept

Does Harrison mention this at all in his book, Calguy?

(After re-reading my post, I want to make clear I'm NOT intending to be a jerk and my intention is not to be facetious with this question. I'm honestly wondering if the author mentions the outcome of this study in the book.)

Disney Vault
12-26-2004, 11:30 AM
I'm glad you all talked to Walt, and he told you this. I think someone who worked close with him and said that this was an idea on his plate would know a bit more. but glad to see you have spoke with him so much, and i can beleive you think 700+ million is cheap, anyone remember when MGM studios opened in Florida, it had one ride the rest where exhibits. So i think DCA made out pretty good.
The 700+ Million was for Downtown Disney, The Grand Californian, and DCA. While Disneysea was 2 billion or something.

calguy77
12-26-2004, 03:59 PM
Disney Seas is also not funded by the Disney Corp, it is a privately funded park as is all of the tokyo project. I'm sure if we did that with disneyland they would change it quite a bit as well.

When animal kingdom opened it only had a few rides, DCA had more than animal kingdom still has.

Stupid_American
12-26-2004, 04:56 PM
I'm always surprised by the number of people who suggest that folks visit DCA and give Disneyland a pass.
I hit a few travel boards and many visitors believe "DL is for kids" (including many who have been to both).
Screamin', Mulholland Madness, Grizzly Rapids, ToT and such seem to appeal more to the thrill seekers.

sediment
12-26-2004, 05:22 PM
1. Dude, let it go.
2. I, for one, am sick and tired of anyone who doesn't think as I do. If you have something to say that disagrees with me, then just stay quiet. No one wants to hear any opinion opposing my own, and it's obvious why: I'm right. All the time.

Back to real life...

Walt thought up a lot of stuff. To think that everything he thought up was right is a bit implausible. Especially when he had a smart businessman/brother who would (and could) say "No" to him. That's what's missing today, and that's why we have the money pit today.

A great man, who worked with Walt, once said that he liked it better as a parking lot. I'll take his opinion over most others.

3. Please use quotes if you're going to copy and paste someone else's opinions. Otherwise, someone might think you're stealing, and tell his lawyer about it. (Or at least tell the moderators here.) Also, please document your thefts.

Mark Goldhaber
12-26-2004, 06:57 PM
A great man, who worked with Walt, once said that he liked it better as a parking lot. I'll take his opinion over most others.
That would be John Hench.


3. Please use quotes if you're going to copy and paste someone else's opinions. Otherwise, someone might think you're stealing, and tell his lawyer about it. (Or at least tell the moderators here.) Also, please document your thefts.
Please leave the moderating to the moderators. Thanks.

SCUBAbe
12-26-2004, 07:22 PM
That would be John Hench.


Please leave the moderating to the moderators. Thanks.

didn't he design big thunder?

SoCalDude
12-26-2004, 07:22 PM
Even if Walt did think of the idea -- I am sure Walt would not made it the POC it turned out to be. ;)

SCUBAbe
12-26-2004, 07:23 PM
Even if Walt did think of the idea -- I am sure Walt would not made it the POC it turned out to be. ;)
I like it. My friend who hasn't been to DL in about 10 years likes it better than DL...not everyone hates it just the ....oh nevermind...

Mark Goldhaber
12-26-2004, 07:25 PM
didn't he design big thunder?
That would be Tony Baxter.

SCUBAbe
12-26-2004, 07:31 PM
That would be Tony Baxter.

ok...so he (hench) wrote the book designing disney.....I didn't like the book very much ..it seemed pretty watered down....but it had some interesting points. I suppose it serves best as a picture book..:)

Mark Goldhaber
12-26-2004, 07:43 PM
It's a nice, different view of the process of creating Disney magic. Hench was never really one to speak ill of another, which was what made his parking lot comment all the more pointed.

SCUBAbe
12-26-2004, 07:49 PM
It's a nice, different view of the process of creating Disney magic. Hench was never really one to speak ill of another, which was what made his parking lot comment all the more pointed.
yeah, elderly people say all kinds of things. I disagree with him. :)

JeffG
12-26-2004, 09:01 PM
What is the source for this John Hench quote? From what I know about Hench, I find it hard to believe he made such a comment on-the-record, even if that really was how he felt about the park.

-Jeff

SnoopysDad
12-26-2004, 09:03 PM
Just because it was 65 on the list does not mean he would do it. Number 2 might make it.

DaddyB
12-26-2004, 10:00 PM
I'd like to put forth the suggestion that what seemed like a good idea in 1961 was not neccesarily a good idea in 1999. After all, the Berlin Wall was put up in 1961 (on the day of my birth!) and was torn down before DCA opened. A Bomb shelter in everyone's back yard also seemed like a good idea in 1961.

And who said that it was ever a good idea in 1961, in the first place? Just because Walt ordered research on this, doesn't mean that he ever had any intentions of following through with it, does it? I haven't read the book that you refer to, but you do make mention that there were ONE HUNDRED TEN different studies, of which, this was 61st. So he had ideas before this, and ideas after this all researched. Seems to me like he thought about it, and then threw the idea out.

I would be more interested to know what "ERA, Economic Research Associates" had to say about:
1) opening a second gate in Anaheim
2) the whole California Living concept

Does Harrison mention this at all in his book, Calguy?

(After re-reading my post, I want to make clear I'm NOT intending to be a jerk and my intention is not to be facetious with this question. I'm honestly wondering if the author mentions the outcome of this study in the book.)

CalGuy, or ANYONE have a response to my question?? Or were my points too valid?

Uncle Remus
12-26-2004, 11:58 PM
hi my name is "so and so" im a jerk face... everyone bow to me and my sarcastically matter of fact thoughts on things that you were wrong about, in my opinion.

Opus1guy
12-27-2004, 05:07 AM
Walt Disney actually toyed with the idea of building a theme park right next door to the "Happiest Place on Earth" that would have celebrated California Living. An early 1960s version of DCA, if you will.

Walt "toyed" with hundreds of ideas. Most he determined not to be good ones.

But if he had seriously developed any ideas past the general concept of the thing...he certainly didn't communicate it with any of his design team, or even Buzz for that matter. Not that I've ever heard from, from those that worked much closer with Walt than Buzz Price did.


Even if Walt did think of the idea -- I am sure Walt would not made it the POC it turned out to be.

More to the point and right on!

BTW, I should point out that Buzz (and I think I can call him that being a casual friend of his over the years) worked with Walt on Disneyland primarily in the Market Research end of the business (Buzz worked for Stanford Research as an outside contractor for Disney) as to development of where the park should sit. Not really what the park was. Though admittedly after the park was designed and built, he became an industry expert in the field. But still primarily regarding infrastructure and Marketing aspects of the business.

In fact in his book, Buzz comments on how he doesn't think the most important aspects of a successful park are the attractions or even the theming, but the unification of all the other many parts of the theme park that the public doesn't even think about. Which IMHO clearly indicates his professional preference for infrastructure issues, rather than creative experiences in the parks themselves.

And speaking of John Hench's parking lot comment...I also knew John extremely well and I agree with Mark Goldhaber assessment that a comment like that coming from this usually extremely diplomatic person, was very revealing. But not at all surprising to me, because I already knew what he and most Imagineers felt about California Adventure. Even to this day many that had to work on it don't like to include it on their "resumes." :(