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fjhuerta
12-14-2004, 03:05 PM
Call me a pessimist, but here it goes.

Back in the 50's and 60's, based on what I read, nothing in the world could compare to Disneyland. Nothing. Whole ride systems were designed for the attractions, the concept of dark rides was taken to a new level, and the park itself broke a lot of paradigms regarding theme parks (for example, excluding a roller coaster, and such).

Today, we have... rollercoasters on DL, which have no theme whatsoever (California Screamin'). A carnival atmosphere that goes against everything Walt Disney wanted (Paradise Pier). Attractions done on the cheapest way possible (all of California Adventure - I mean, come on! Tackier than 6 Flags!, the Pooh and stuff like that). Attractions closing because they are "too expensive to mantain". The Rocket Rods. The Submarines. Need I go on?

Anyway, it wouldn't be so bad...

* If they hadn't built Tokyo Disneysea, which is, by all accounts, the best Disney park (which should have been built in Anaheim).

* If Tokyo didn't have the greatest Pooh and Submarine ride, while Anaheim gets the leftovers.

* If DW didn't have the real Tower of Terror, while, 10 years later or so, Anaheim gets a "Light" version of the attraction.

Matt Ouimet might be able to paint stuff and fix some things up, but lets get real. Disneyland will never be able to get rid of the cheap park in front of it. It'll hardly be able to fix the entire Tomorrowland to the standards Walt would have desired. Disneyland, the Crown Jewel, should have had DisneySea or Westcot next to it, not a cheap immitation of a cheap park.

I don't think such a trend can be reversed. Thankfully, Disneyland has some sort of strange magic that makes you feel good about it.... but it's obvious the real Disneyland will soon become the one in Tokyo.

At least, that's the way I see things. :(

Andrew
12-14-2004, 03:09 PM
You can always just ignore DCA. I do, except to pick up a free tortilla now and then.

Surfingstitch
12-14-2004, 03:14 PM
Only the flour tortillas, the corn ones are gross.

zugzug15
12-14-2004, 03:33 PM
ahh but you forget about one of the magic things about disneyland...

once inside you cant really see to the outside world! so as far as once your inside disneyland... DCA doesnt even exist! (entering the world of fantasyland now!!!)

Surfingstitch
12-14-2004, 03:37 PM
That is such a good point.

Fantasyland, Here we come!!! (running)

sami869
12-14-2004, 03:59 PM
Only the flour tortillas, the corn ones are gross.
I've been in there at least 10 times and I've never once seen the corn tortilla machine running or been given a corn tortilla. I thought it was just for show or broke down or something. Perhas I just have good luck :)

sediment
12-14-2004, 04:48 PM
You need to put your imaginear hat on.
Most of your complaints involve DCA. The thread seems to be mistitled.

It took about eight years to mess DL. It will take a lot of time to unmess it.

TikiGeek
12-14-2004, 05:41 PM
It took about eight years to mess DL. It will take a lot of time to unmess it.
Bingo! Matt Ouimet did not make this mess. But he may have a hand in cleaning it up. From what I've seen very recently, we may (Ouimet - pun intended :p ) have hope.

Uncle Remus
12-14-2004, 05:53 PM
ya, it may not be back to the standard it was (for the time being) but i grew up in the last 8 years so any improvement will improve my experience tremencely. Matt Ouimet is such a pimp.

HorizonsA
12-14-2004, 06:07 PM
ahh but you forget about one of the magic things about disneyland...

once inside you cant really see to the outside world! so as far as once your inside disneyland

That's what I liek to hear. There is a sense of magic in Disneyland. Once you pass under the Disneyland Railroad and into Main Street, it's like you're almost non-existant to the rest of the world. That's what, I think, that Walt Disney was trying to achieve, to cast a spell on us to actually have fun with our family and friends and "leave today." Remember what that plaque at the entrances say.
"Here you leave today and enter the world of yesterday, tomorrow, and fantasy."

fjhuerta
12-14-2004, 06:21 PM
ahh but you forget about one of the magic things about disneyland...

once inside you cant really see to the outside world! so as far as once your inside disneyland... DCA doesnt even exist! (entering the world of fantasyland now!!!)
That's one of the many things Walt gave Disneyland - and why I do think there's real magic inside that little, beautiful, tiny park which I love so much. :) It has never failed to transform me and my friends into little, happy kids for a day... and we are all over 30.

sleepyjeff
12-14-2004, 06:55 PM
You can always just ignore DCA. I do, except to pick up a free tortilla now and then.

..but Disneyland can't ignore DCA.....it's like trying to ignore a drowing man clinging to your leg when you are attempting to swim to shore yourself :eek:

Uncle Remus
12-14-2004, 07:19 PM
good thing disneyland is a good swimmer

Opus1guy
12-14-2004, 07:27 PM
No matter how much previous or current regimes try to screw up Disneyland, they are still earning about 80% of their paychecks from what was built before and is still there of Walt's Disneyland. Really...the most basic underlying elements of the park that made it different from any other, are still there today, from way back.

While I hate to see what some of Disneyland's more recent "caretakers" have done to the park...fortunately there is still so much of what makes Disneyland great, still there. :)

Some of these guys today think they are God's gift to theme parks when they put a new roof on a building or a new coat of paint on something as a "major contribution." But most of them just pale in comparison to previous visionaries and others who built a whole brand new theme park in just one year. And still other later visionaries that improved upon it using the same standards of tradition, quality and storytelling, in building and maintaining for the highest common denominator of Guest...just as Walt had insisted upon while he was still alive.

It's a shame we sometimes now have to ignore poor elements in the park, or convince ourselves that something sub-standard by previous administrations is now somehow acceptable. But if you do that, you can still have a great Disneyland experience, because there is still plenty of the good stuff in there. :)

Wish we didn't have to do that and I hope the old standards of show quality, variety in food and merchandise availability, and resistance to "cookie cut" and clone too many elements, return someday soon.

Here's wishing upon a star.

DaddyB
12-14-2004, 07:28 PM
I certainly think Matt Ouimet can turn the Disneyland Resort around. I think he's already on the path to do it. You gotta remember that he's been operating on a budget that he didn't pass. Changes aren't made overnight, folks. It's a big park. I think you can already feel the change over there. The rumored expansion of Frontierland is a BIG change right there! He's just gotta get past this maelstrom called "50th Anniversary" before he can really do anything else.

Now DCA is another matter. I don't think that poor park is going to be as easy a problem to solve. I'm afraid for quite a few years, it's going to be a money pit. Mainly because it opened so short of any real feeling of Disney pride. Right now, they've just opened ToT, and that took a whole lot of money and with the 50th for the other park, I just don't see any real change happening over there for several years. And I'm afraid it's an attitude thing too. Eisner refuses to admit he screwed it up. If he did, it would be like he'd be admitting that Roy and Stanley are right, and that's something Eisner is NEVER going to do. So I suspect that he is also refusing to release much in the way of funds for that park because to even make changes at all would be to admit fault (in Eisner's delusional King Lear-like mind). Frankly I don't think Matt Ouimet has much of a love for that park to begin with either. Remember, he's not from California, and he's much more interested in bringing his toy ships over into this new play area.

Look at the short shrift DCA got this holiday season! Do you see any Christmas Trees? Sure lots of garland, but it all blends in with the exisiting decor, that it just doesn't stand out. DCA has SO much extra space, it should practically have been a forest of Christmas trees. Instead it feels like leftover decorations that Disneyland just didn't need.

"Hey Pete, whaddya' want to do with these lights and wreaths Disneyland sent over?"
"Ah, string up on the golden gate bridge, and I bet we could put the wreaths under the elephants feet at the Hollywood entrance"

http://www.visionsfantastic.com/daddyb/DCA_BridgeNightXmas_400.jpg

http://www.visionsfantastic.com/daddyb/DCA_HollywoodBacklotXmas_400.jpg


And don't even get me started on that sad stereotype of a Beach Santa Claus area. I've seen better theming at Joe's Crab Shack

When the attitude about DCA changes significantly at the top, then it will filter down as the managers see what's important to their bosses... and those under the managers will start to care, because it's what important to their bosses... and so on. This is happening at Disneyland, and hopefully it will happen sometime in 2006 over at DCA.

We've gotta have patience, and yet be vocal about what we see.

"Stuff is getting better. Stuff is getting better all the time."


daddyb

sediment
12-14-2004, 08:03 PM
You're right, $150/PerBottleGuy (as usual), but I don't see Cast Member Matt bragging about his paint jobs. Maybe others are doing it, and maybe you've seen it from CM Matt. (You're an inside dude.)
From the looks of it, it seems that he's thinking about the future (Subs, Ranch area, etc.).

As for DCA, he sees eye-to-eye with us, and without a second full-day theme park (the latest attendance figures prove this, I believe), the cruise ships will probably go with the SoCal CityPass package (with USH, KBF, Sea World, SD Zoo). And that goes against all things Disney.

We've done our share of amateur imagineering about DCA. There are some poinsettias in planters.

fjhuerta
12-15-2004, 07:11 AM
good thing disneyland is a good swimmer

Amen. Sadly, it could have had a swimming partner, instead of a rock tied to its leg. Westcot... Disneysea... to think we got CA just because it was a lot cheaper makes me sad.

Disneyland will forever be just that. I'm glad about it - as I said before, I think there's no other place in the world like it, and I have just given up on trying to figure out what makes it so darn special to me (and my friends). I'm glad someone is giving it the TLC it so desperately needed. I just hope the people up there realize ECA is merely a money pit, and start considering the park as an "extension" of Disneyland, therefore not charging any extra amount for "park hopping", and spending the necessary amount to bring DL back to its feet.

DL is special because there's still nothing else like it. ECA is just plain weird - a park with thrill attractions that are not that thrilling anyway, a park with some kind of theme that isn't being done at the quality levels we expect from Disneyland, a place where "cheap" is the key word. Maybe a bit of focus would help... make it a thrill park and an add-on to Disney, or make it a theme park AND an add-on to Disney...

Or simply bulldoze the darn mess and build Westcot :D Just sell the attractions to travelling fairs and keep the good ones (It's tough to be a bug, perhaps? ToT?), demolish everything else, and build something NICE this time. It could actually be cheaper than trying to fix ECA.

sediment
12-15-2004, 09:14 AM
Maybe Cast Member Matt will smartly allocate all maintenance expenses to DL, and let DCA's attractions rot over time.

GoldenEars
12-15-2004, 09:47 AM
I, for one, really enjoy going to DCA and always have a great time! Yes, it may not be *Disneyland* or a continuation of the famous Park, but it's still a fun place to hang out and enjoy yourself. It's all about perspective and how you look at things. I like the dramatic change/difference between Disneyland and DCA!

When I walk into Disneyland, a complete sense of nostalgia, fantasy, magic, history and child-like feelings take over me. No matter how many other Disney Theme Parks they build, or how much more grand they are, Disneyland in Anaheim will ALWAYS be the ORIGINAL and the ONLY one that Walt Disney himself saw and walked through!!

When I walk into DCA, I have a *kick back & hang out* type of feeling. It's a relaxing & fun atmosphere for me. It's a Park that's not geared so much on fantasy, but more reality. I almost consider it an *adult theme park* with a little Disney thrown in. I do agree that DCA needs improving, and I believe it'll happen, in time. One of my main issues is that DCA does have a parade during the day! But thankfully, that will change next year with the new parade, *Block Party!* Give it time, folks, the Park is barely 4 years old. Good things will happen to it, I'm sure!

Besides, being at DCA on New Years Eve is the BEST!! I've been doing it every year since DCA opened up. The energy level & fun is so high throughout the Park, it's great! And I've noticed that each year DCA gathers more & more crowds on NYE. Check it out this year, and I'll see you there! :D

the mad hatter
12-15-2004, 09:53 AM
Everyone keeps saying westcot, and disneysea. if those happened, then everyone would complain that all they got was a carbon copy of another park. There's also the issue of space. WDW and TDL have the benefit of a lot more free space than the anaheim property.
I think if DCA adds some more attractions then it will start to take shape. we are all just frustrated that it doesn't add up to its big brother next door, but lets be honest...what would?

Uncle Remus
12-15-2004, 02:37 PM
http://www.justdisney.com/Features/disneyland_expansion/index.html
There was enough space (sort of) for Westcot and it was approved by the all powerful CEO but was shot down.... I recommend reading this.

jrad32
12-15-2004, 03:25 PM
I hope matt does blow off DCA for awhile. The problems over there are too much to overcome without a boatload of money. The focus needs to stay on fixing Disneyland, the park people actually want to go to unlike the crapfest next door.

After the 50th I'm hoping we see some plans starting to take shape in the sub lagoon, on the peoplemover track and with the Frontierland expansion. Once that is completed, hopefully around the end of the decade then it may be worth looking into fixing California misAdventure.

stitchfan_cm
12-15-2004, 08:59 PM
After reading the numerous posts about DCA and DL, I have to finally say something.

1) There are problems with DL and DCA, there are no questions about that. But every post I have seen calls for a perminant fix here and now. No matter how much money or clout you have, there is just no way to fix every problem that exists. To say that Matt Oumiet will not fix the problem, and DL is forever in ruin is an invalid statement. There is no way a person can fix every major problem in just a year. Give the man time, and you will see the difference. He is still arranging things to his likings, and you will see in the next month more and more movement.

2) DCA was a mistake that was made, and will need to be fixed. But I do have news for some of you. It will never go away. Are there some show and theming problems? Yes. Are there lacks of show elements? Yes. Is it fixable? Yes. There are two things I remember. The first is that DCA will never stand toe to toe with DL, and to compare the two on the same platform is wrong and unfair. Also, we must give Matt a chance to get the ball rolling, and start cleaning up the mess that was left by the past leaders of the resort.

3) Some say that DCA was bulit with only the all mighty $$$ in mind. Well, you would of, IMHO, had the same quality park.It wouldn't have mattered if it were called WESTCOT, or DisneySea, or anyother name. Uncle Remus referenced the justdisney.com article. If you read closely, you would have noticed that Disney was not in the best position when it came to theme park area of the company. If plans would have continued with WESTCOT, or the others, Pressler or not, you would of had the same atmosphere of park as you see now. Except of the "DCA sucks" threads, you would have "WESTCOT sucks" threads.

I had the chance to have lunch with Matt while he was getting an overview of one of the attractions in my area(Very nice and polite person). He took interest in many things, including safety and show. He took note of our comments and concerns, and low and behold, we(the CM's) have started to see the wheels of progress begin to turn. This man has a lot on his plate to get through before the healing process begins. This man has taken on a great task of organizing and preparing the resort before the 50th, and that is a task even I wouldn't want to undertake. Give him time to start the healing process, and I do believe that you will see a change in the next couple of years(not months like some of you are unrealistly expecting).

Look at this like an oil spill. It only takes a few minutes to spill the oil. But it will take days, weeks, months, years, and sometimes decades, to clean it up to where it was before the spill.

Oh, and DaddyB, I love Joe's Carb Shack! ;)

averagedork
12-15-2004, 09:02 PM
I am going to be a party stomper in the DCA bashfest. I am probably going to get bashed because of it too...

I am tired of people complaining and whining about how much they hate the park. Seriously every other thread feels like it's a bash to DCA. I am tired of people saying how awful the park is and how it should be bulldozed. I am sick of people saying it's so cheap and cheesy and "everything against Walt's dream".
Okay everyone has voiced their opinion and no one likes DCA, except some people do. Some people think that it has it's flaws, but with some tweaking it really could be a great park. It's not awful. Sure the rides aren't all themed after typical Disney things, but the park isn't a typical Disney park. What if Epcot was Disney's Florida Adventure with rides and lands themed around Florida. Would we bash it as much as we bash DCA? Furthermore why do you complain? Why not just not go? If the park is so awful it's a simple answer don't go, when you go to Disneyland don't go to the new editions. Don't park in the new parking lot because it wasn't there before DCA was built. Park in Timon or the street. Don't shop at Downtown Disney. It was built as nice segway between the parks. But since you don't like the other park it isn't a segway to anything, right? Do what you did before DCA was built. Go to the IHOP across the street, or whereever you ate before.
Stop complaining that the park is so bad. It makes the people who like DCA mad. I like Tower of Terror, it scares the heck out of me, but I like it (and so what it's not like Florida's. I've heard people like ours more). I like the Muppets 3D, Soarin' over California, and Screamin'. I think Mullhuland Madness is nifty. I like strolling through the parks and window shopping. I like watching the show at the park (DUH specifically rules). The comedy show at DCA is better than Laughing Stock, by far. The nice part about DCA is you can drink, which sounds awful but DCA you can relax in. Disneyland it's like "I'm at Disneyland! THE Disneyland!" no matter how many times you go. DCA there's no pressure. It's a comfy park.

So there's my rant. Stop saying how awful the park is. How much you hate it. After reading the millionth post about it, I am tired of hearing it and I know many other posters here are too. :)

Tigertail777
12-16-2004, 01:21 AM
That would be easy to do if I hadnt spent the same price as disneyland to go to a park that has a heck of a lot less value. I will admit there were certain parts of DCA I really liked, but you could almost visably see the parts where the money was cut off and where they had some kind of decent budget.

Did I think it was terrible? not really... hugely dissappointing, and surely nothing I will tell friends and family about having much of a good time at, but not terrible. I personally far and away preferred disney MGM over DCA even though there were far less rides, and due to certain trip complications, I could only be there for 4 hours. Even with all those constraints I still absolutely loved the theming of MGM over DCA, heck I was so impressed with a freakin coca cola stand's theming I took pictures of it. I really cannot say I was as impressed with any of DCA's theming, which except for certain small areas seemed just slightly better than magic mountain's attempts at theming on rides such as superman.

Managment willingly put out the comparison between the parks when they priced it the same as Disneyland, and put it within direct viewing of Disneyland. DCA is okay, it COULD grow into a very nice little add on to Disneyland over time, but ONLY and I stress this as much as humanely possible, ONLY if managment is willing to spend some serious money on adding onto it, and willing to take some chances. I dont even remember what year are we working on now for DCA?... Third year? Fourth? Time is quickly running out on the excuse 'give it time and it will grow" especially if you compare it to the expansion timeline of Disneyland. Heck even if you compare it to the expansion of the tokyo parks (THEIR management understands that you have to CONSTANTLY keep making new attractions to bring people back... they just opened their new buzz ride not long ago, and have two more big attractions in the works.)