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Darkbeer
12-09-2004, 09:57 PM
http://savedisney.com/news/features/fe121004.1.asp




In Anaheim, there's still the issue of Disney's California Adventure, which, four years after its debut, is nothing if not a flat-out bomb. Nothing Disney has done has improved the performance of this $800 million + investment, which is wisely left out of the usual company discussion of performance. Still, it's a major problem that is soon to become the elephant in the room no one wants to acknowledge. If the theme-park chain is only as strong as its weakest link (and DCA is an extraordinarily weak link) we could be looking at a House of Cards.

The star attraction, Disneyland, has benefited from renewed capital investment to help right the wrongs of many years of mismanagement and neglect. But DCA continues to drag on the Anaheim resort's bottom-line to prevent additional reinvestment into the Company's still-popular flagship, Disneyland itself.

Mukta
12-10-2004, 09:48 AM
Are they not turning even close to a profit? Did TOT help the finances?

nightdesigns
12-10-2004, 10:07 AM
Did TOT help the finances?

Based on my wait times, I think it bombed. If they put it in DL, it'd be up there with at least the wait times Splash Mountain. Most times when i ride TOT, it's less than 10 mintues (walk right into the preview room).

tinklover25
12-10-2004, 10:16 AM
i really like DCA, its a nice change of pace..like MGM is for WDW

sediment
12-10-2004, 10:23 AM
Are they not turning even close to a profit? Did TOT help the finances?
I don't think so. TOT cost a lot of money to build.

I don't agree with some of that excerpt. I'll read the rest soon.
1. Yes, I agree it is a bomb, both financially and paying-guest numbers.
2. Yes, I agree that its failure is buried in public DLR discussions. That DL keeps bringing in guests means that DCA's failure is financially covered by DL.
3. I disagree on statement about reinvestment in DL. That statement about there not being additional reinvestment into DL is about a year old. Um, Castle? Main Street? Tiki Room? Indy? Lagoon Research? Space Mountain? New Buzz? Recent Matterhorn refurb? New walkway concrete?
4. DCA does keep people on property, though. This means people aren't going to KBF or Sea World for at least one off-day.
I don't think that can possibly be worth as much it cost, though. I'd rather have something that lots of people really want to go to, and that having it next to DL is icing on the cake. I think it hurts KBF and Sea World more than it helps DLR. In a war of attrition (and DIS does like these battles), DIS is likely to win.

DCA has to clear, profit-wise, about $100 million per year, in order for the investment ($800 million+, plus $100 million for ToT) to be a success. At 5.5 million guests (2003 estimate), that's an average $18.18 per guest in profit.
A lot of it does depend on how you allocate the dollars. Having DLR reported in total makes analysis by outsiders impossible.
Doing a relative analysis, though, TDS brings in 12 million guests to TDL's 13 million, while DCA brings in 5.5 million guests to ADL's 12.5 million.
The disparity between similarly opened parks relative to their nearby park is astounding.
Think about it: 12.5 million guests go to Disneyland, but right next door, only 5.5 million visit DCA. 7 million guests per year, with it 100 yards away, do not enter the DCA gates. That's:
1. Single-day, non-hopping guests making a decision not to pay the additional cost, and making the decision to go only to DL.
2. AP holders making a decision (boycott, protest, etc.) to ignore it, or pop over once every third visit or so, mainly when there is something new.
3. Multi-day park-hoppers making a decision to spend maybe one day (maybe 1.5 days) out of five there.

SCUBAbe
12-10-2004, 10:25 AM
Based on my wait times, I think it bombed. If they put it in DL, it'd be up there with at least the wait times Splash Mountain. Most times when i ride TOT, it's less than 10 mintues (walk right into the preview room).

over the weekend it was at 70min. I even had to wait in a line for fast pass..

the mad hatter
12-10-2004, 10:30 AM
kbf, tds, tdl, adl

I have no clue what these stand for...

sediment
12-10-2004, 10:32 AM
I've heard that "Lost: Home Edition" will debut in January, while "Desperate Apartment Wives: NYC" will be on the Fall 2005 slate.

the mad hatter
12-10-2004, 10:33 AM
I've heard that "Lost: Home Edition" will debut in January, while "Desperate Apartment Wives: NYC" will be on the Fall 2005 slate.

What??

SCUBAbe
12-10-2004, 10:34 AM
kbf, tds, tdl, adl

I have no clue what these stand for...

the first one is knotts berry farm, second one might be tokyo disney seas, not sure about the rest...:)

sediment
12-10-2004, 10:35 AM
kbf, tds, tdl, adl

I have no clue what these stand for...
Sorry. In order:
KBF = Knott's Berry Farm.
TDS = Tokyo Disney Seas.
TDL = Tokyo Disneyland.
ADL = Anaheim Disneyland. That's a new one I just made up. Since I was referring to TDL and ADL in the same post, I thought it prudent to keep them separate. I was thinking about "ODL" for "Original Disneyland."

Alex S.
12-10-2004, 10:36 AM
Knott's Berry Farm
Tokyo DisneySea
Tokyo Disneyland
Anaheim Disneyland

or

Key Buying Factors
Tactical Defense Systems
Trusted Delivery Layer
Anti-Defamation League

the mad hatter
12-10-2004, 10:37 AM
Sorry. In order:
KBF = Knott's Berry Farm.
TDS = Tokyo Disney Seas.
TDL = Tokyo Disneyland.
ADL = Anaheim Disneyland. That's a new one I just made up. Since I was referring to TDL and ADL in the same post, I thought it prudent to keep them separate. I was thinking about "ODL" for "Original Disneyland."

Thank you. I can go on with my life now :)

sediment
12-10-2004, 10:40 AM
What??
Oh yeah. These "brands" have to be exploited to the highest and shortest-term degree.

sediment
12-10-2004, 10:40 AM
Thank you. I can go on with my life now :)
Alex's second list is better.

the mad hatter
12-10-2004, 10:41 AM
Oh yeah. These "brands" have to be exploited to the highest and shortest-term degree.

And this has to do with DCA how?? I'm confused.

sediment
12-10-2004, 10:46 AM
Actually it has more to do with the rest of the article linked in the OP. (Original Post.)
In it it decribes, separately, how ABC is turing the corner with its successful series, and how DIS likes to exploit successful projects, such as building a ToT at DCA, "Millionaire" (I don't think this was brought up, but it's a good example), Princesses for kids, the Direct-to-Home sequels of timeless classic movies that actually had endings, etc.

Thern, what I did was superimpose these two complaints into a very clever joke that scarily does not seem so far-fetched.
And now, the joke's fourth wall has been torn down, and thus is ruined.

sediment
12-10-2004, 10:48 AM
over the weekend it was at 70min. I even had to wait in a line for fast pass..
Wow, Disneyland must have been really crowded for DCA to have such wait times.

My2kidsrule
12-10-2004, 10:55 AM
Who is the person who wrote that article? What are his credentials? Is anyone else thinking about the fact that this person is just using the name of Herbie the Love Bug's driver?

While I love this site, Miceage and even savedisney, this is one of the key issues with Web stuff. There was no reporting in that article. It was extrapolation and supposition with the hypothesis that the company is in a death spiral. While that may be true, the article used weak logic. The points about ESPN's back catalog are dead wrong. The timetable for following up ABC's new shows is plucked from thin air. My daughter will argue whether the Princess line is nearing its end. And if I recall, Disney's animation department lay dormant for more than a decade before its post-"Little Mermaid" resurgance. The heading on this post should read, "savedisney.com RANT gives DCA a black eye."

Besides, who else other than like-minded people is going to read it? While it's fun to analyze, speculate, pontificate and repudiate when it comes to DCA et al, please try to keep it all in the perspective it needs.

As much as I agree with the savedisney people and I agree the company needs change, many of the posted items need to be treated with a fox news channel-like bias filter.

As a member of ACES (not the coaster enthusiasts, the other ACES), I read stuff like that and cringe because it looks like journalism. and it's not. It's bluster, and it should be read and enjoyed as such.

sediment
12-10-2004, 11:01 AM
One real Disney curmudgeon (not naming names, but here are the initials: JHM) has complained from the start that savedisney uses cute Disney pseudonyms instead of real names. Makes the whole movement look a bit childish.
I didn't find it all that blustery, except maybe the Pooh reference. I know what that site is about, but really, DCA is a failure. It's not a terminal failure for DIS as is suggested.
The place just needs another $1 billion or so of Imagineering. Without Accountaneering or Eisnereering getting in the way.

sediment
12-10-2004, 11:02 AM
Also on the Fall lineup: "Extreme Makeover: Theme Park Edition." I'll watch the first 15 minutes of that.

the mad hatter
12-10-2004, 11:03 AM
Well of course they're biased. The whole point of the site is to oust Eisner. They are going to try to find everything out there to try to convince people of this.

My2kidsrule
12-10-2004, 11:05 AM
Yeah, it's a failure in Disney terms, but compare it with the bottom line of any other parks company, and it's middle of the pack. You're right, it needs work and it needs the many mistakes that were made fixed.

And yeah, savedisney looks really lame when it tries to pass off anonymous rants with real news stories. Sigh. The Web is slowly eating into newspapers, and it's frustrating that it's doing it with stuff like this.

My2kidsrule
12-10-2004, 11:07 AM
Find what? what in that rant was new? Nothing. It was like a Limbaugh or O;Reilly rant. unfortnately, it does nothing but preach to the converted. Save Disney's problem is that it panders to the most militant disney-ites. It's like a group trying to oust Lucas because Greedo fires first now. Oh, wait, I'll head over to theforce.net in a second and post that...

merlinjones
12-10-2004, 11:16 AM
DCA is a flop whether the name on the piece were Dan Rather or Mary Poppins...