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trentino
09-24-2004, 08:04 AM
Disneyland frustrates me. My wife and I have visited twice, once in 2001 and again in 2002. Both times we've left saying we would not be back. We are not people to complain. We are not usually very picky. But being regular visitors to WDW we are amazed at the different environment between the two resorts. We get the feeling of being in a "special" place at Walt Disney World. That feeling is just not there at Disneyland. A huge part of it is the cast members.

We will be returning to Disneyland next week and spending a day there on our way to Maui and again another day on our way back. Yesterday I phoned about the new Mysteries tour asking if it would be held on Columbus day. The lady I spoke with rather coldly informed me that it was impossible to know because they didn't have it on their computer screens. They would not know till Friday. So I phoned this morning and after dozens of busy signals I spoke with another "cold" person who informed me that the day was not available. I said "Oh." She said they are not offering it because it is a holiday (Columbus Day). I said, "We're coming up from Canada and that's the only day we'll be there." "Sorry" was the surly reply.

There was no cheer in her voice. No sincerity in her apology. There was not even a "Thank you for calling the Disneyland Resort, have a Magical Day." When I call WDW to reserve something -- even the very hard to get Princess Breakfest and Cinderella castle -- the feeling I get from the CMs is entirely different (usually). They are always so cheeful.. so helpful...

Here's another example. This is the one thing that sticks in our mind from our last trip. We were at DCA and it was towards the end of the day. My wife wanted cotton candy. We looked everywhere and there were none to be found. As we were just about to head over to Disneyland to get some we saw a CM with three big things of cotton candy at a guest service booth near the front of the park. It seems someone else had wanted cotton candy so a CM went into a stockroom to get some and came out and GAVE it to this individual for free. The CM had one left which we asked to buy. We were told no sorry that's not possible. We don't have a cash register here and can't accept cash. We need to bring this back to the stockroom. We explained that we had looked all over for cotton candy and couldn't find any but were again told sorry they can't help????? We just couldn't believe it.

Both my wife and I have been cast members at Walt Disney World and could not imagine a WDW cast member treating guests like that.

There are so many other similar stories -- like the fire engine driver on main street that rudely refused a request for a sticker to be placed in our scrapbook.

What it all comes down to is this: We feel that CMs at Disneyland are so used to dealing with "locals" and APs that they assume everyone is one. We're the demographic that Disneyland is trying so hard to find but we haven't come across any exceptional cast members at Disneyland yet. Instead it seems CMs assume that we're locals or APs and that we've come do Disneyland from within a few miles radius instead of from a different country.

So why are we going back? Because we can't resist being in California and so close to Disneyland without checking it out. We're hoping that the "third time will be a charm" and we'll find that Disney Magic that we're so used to experiencing at Walt Disney World in Florida.

Just thought I'd share. Please don't flame me.

Trent
The Magical Music of the Mouse
www.magicmusic.net

jrad32
09-24-2004, 08:27 AM
Well in my trips to DL I've had good and bad service, though mostly good. On my one trip to WDW (wish I could get there more often) I don't remember any bad service.

But I've always found that people in the service industry are going to have good and bad days like anyone else. You can't expect to have perfect service everytime, but it sure seems like you guys have had a bad run of it at DL. Hopefully the next visit goes better.

Susan L
09-24-2004, 08:40 AM
I have heard the same comments about WDW from people who have only been there once or twice but, always go to Disneyland. I'm sorry you did not find any magic on your visits to Disneyland. I have never been to the World so I cannot comment there. I have been going to DL since I was a baby and do not recall ever having a negative experience. The CM's have always been cheerful and happy to help in anyway they could. I think it is what you make of any vacation, if you can only see the negative that's what it will be for you. If you focus more on the positive it will over shadow the negative. Don't sweat the small stuff, people have bad days even people who work for Disney. Have a great time in Maui. My sister and her family go there often. The last time they went they were treated very rudely by the locals she said it spoiled their trip.

sediment
09-24-2004, 08:56 AM
Well, it's obvious that you don't know what you're talking about. [Insert every emoticon]

The biggest thing I see is that you came at probably the worst time period in the history of Disneyland. Peak Pressler/Harriss years.

The recent poor customer service, when it happens, comes from the fact that DLr does not have to scrape and claw for every single guest to come. This breeds the poor service, when it happens. It should be scraping and clawing for your business.
Send a letter, because we can't do anything about it.

That tour is probably a bee in someone's bonnet already, what with the expected type of guests asking questions about it.

RagtimePrince
09-24-2004, 09:13 AM
Where is the magic at your local Six Flags?

Of course there are certain situations and employees that don't add up to a perfect experience, but come on, the vast majority of CM's are fantastic theme park workers and provide great experiences. Next time, go meet some characters or Rod at his piano and any bumps will be forgotten. :)

Opus1guy
09-24-2004, 09:20 AM
It's right HERE! (http://disneyland.disney.go.com/dlr/detail/store?id=MainStreetMagicShopShoppingPage)

;)

Fozzie
09-24-2004, 09:33 AM
I really hope that you have a better visit this time. But be prepared for many closures due to refurbishment. :| The closures, to me, are actually a very good sign. The new management took a look around and quickly figured out the the magic was in need of restoration.

Disneyland is also actively seeking out new CM's that WANT to be there. They don't want to hire people who simply need a job but have no special excitement or passion for Disneyland. Hopefully this will help turn things around, in time.

I'll keep an eye out for you guys! I have some family in Canada, and I just love it up there.... ;)

trentino
09-24-2004, 10:01 AM
Hey Opus, that's funny!!! :D Especially since WDW's magic store was torn out in favour of "Sports apparel" years ago. DL also has the Wonderland music store. Hmmm, maybe I should rethink my comments.

rentayenta
09-24-2004, 10:13 AM
Very cute Opus- I hope you are feeling well and have a quick recovery!

Frame of mind also influences if you will feel the magic. Go with an open mind and if it doesn't pan out complain to someone at DL.

I don't know if you should go back :confused: I don't think I would if I had those negative experiences.

gothemi
09-24-2004, 10:29 AM
Huh, Disneyland has a million times more magic then WDW could wish for. DL is the original park. It is Walt Disney's park. He never stepped foot in WDW after it's opening. Granted WDW was his favorite new project. Walt actually stayed in DL (not lived, just stayed), he had some much to do with the actual construction and creation of that park it is crazy to think there is no ( or less then WDW) magic there. Remember Walt, his family (according to Walt) and Mickey started this whole thing.

Back to the CM thing. I have never had any problems with any CM's at DL. In fact, I have had nothing but great guest service everytime I speak with anyone. In speaking with the CM's on my guided tour, I became almost jealous at seeing how much they love their jobs and how well they do it.

adriennek
09-24-2004, 11:49 AM
What it all comes down to is this: We feel that CMs at Disneyland are so used to dealing with "locals" and APs that they assume everyone is one. We're the demographic that Disneyland is trying so hard to find but we haven't come across any exceptional cast members at Disneyland yet. Instead it seems CMs assume that we're locals or APs and that we've come do Disneyland from within a few miles radius instead of from a different country.

This might explain why but it's no excuse. Shouldn't all guests be treated well no matter what kind they are? This reminds me of the cell phone commercials: Why does he get the special swimsuit? Because he's new. Why don't you treat people well at Disneyland? Because you're all locals, at WDW there are more tourists.

Adrienne

sediment
09-24-2004, 12:03 PM
That is the explanation. Because if people aren't treated well at WDW, then they might not come back. And they'll tell their friends. And that translates into BIG DOLLARS lost.
Tick off an DLr AP holder? [Valley accent]AS IF [/Valley accent] they won't come back. Maybe they'll go to a website and complain.

You were assumed to be some local AP holder, asking a zillion questions about the "Mysteries" tour, just like the AP holder that the CM just got off the phone with. She's just going with the odds.

Perhaps, as is done at WDW with its cast members, DLr tourists should wear name tags noting where they're from.

Still, it's no excuse. But that's the market driving the service. There are ways to make the customer service experience more like WDW. Hmm, wonder what I'm thinking about...

Disneygirl65
09-24-2004, 03:03 PM
That is the explanation. Because if people aren't treated well at WDW, then they might not come back. And they'll tell their friends. And that translates into BIG DOLLARS lost.
Tick off an DLr AP holder? [Valley accent]AS IF [/Valley accent] they won't come back. Maybe they'll go to a website and complain.

You were assumed to be some local AP holder, asking a zillion questions about the "Mysteries" tour, just like the AP holder that the CM just got off the phone with. She's just going with the odds.

Perhaps, as is done at WDW with its cast members, DLr tourists should wear name tags noting where they're from.

Still, it's no excuse. But that's the market driving the service. There are ways to make the customer service experience more like WDW. Hmm, wonder what I'm thinking about...

OK this got me thinking. I'm sure it has been discussed before but please again for me? ? On any given day that is not a block out date what is the ratio of AP holders and non at Disneyland?

DisneylandForever
09-24-2004, 03:21 PM
Disneyland frustrates me. My wife and I have visited twice, once in 2001 and again in 2002. Both times we've left saying we would not be back. We are not people to complain. We are not usually very picky. But being regular visitors to WDW we are amazed at the different environment between the two resorts. We get the feeling of being in a "special" place at Walt Disney World. That feeling is just not there at Disneyland. A huge part of it is the cast members.

You are not one to complain? Well I'll give you one guess what you just did.

I have been to DL every year since birth, and the past 14 years I've gone anywhere from 3 to 5 times a year, staying anywhere from 3 to 5 days per trip. I am not a local, but I am an AP holder.

I have had ONE incident in that entire time, and it was from a security guard that asked me what I was doing when I was video-taping my cousin. It seems he thought I was filming something to put on the internet. I took offense (my cousin didn't), but I let it go. Other than that, I have never received sub-standard service.

If you went twice and were treated badly twice, I'd bet that either A) your attitude warranted it, or B) your standards for service are too high.

Now I'm not saying that's definitely it, but the odds are pretty good if the service I've received has been good to excellent 99.9 percent of the time, and 0 percent of the time for you. Or it's just one big fat coincidence.

WDW is bigger and grander, no doubt. But it will always be known as the 2nd park, no matter what. And for the record, the level of "magic" in Disneyland is just fine.

CoasterChickie
09-24-2004, 04:47 PM
Gosh, so far it seems like a lot of the replies to Trentino's posts are implying that it was his own fault on both trips that he did not feel the magic at DL even though he gave some pretty good examples of some CM's doing a lousy job. It sounds to me like he had the unfortunate luck of running into the ones who were having a bad day. I am usually able to let things go when someone is rude to me, but I remember being upset at DL for about 2 hours once because a mom had been especially snotty and rude to me and my daughter because she thought we had taken cuts in line at IASW. (This was when I was younger, less assertive and didn't have the guts to stick up for myself and my daughter!) So I believe you, Tarentino, when you say that the attitudes of some of the CM's you encountered lessened your enjoyment of the park.

As far as the CM's on the phone, keep in mind that a lot of them are not actually working IN DL, so they may not have that same feeling of excitement about their jobs as the CM's in the park. Also, if on your next trip you come across a CM who's not all that great, you might try killing him with kindness or giving him a gentle lesson in manners. Here's an example: I was in SF once and I bought something from a street vendor. I paid with a $20 bill and he gave me change. Then I nicely asked if he could change another $20 bill for me and he got really snotty. So I said "I was just asking." And he said really angrily "Well, I was just telling you." So I very calmly said "Well I'm from a small town and I don't know how things work here in the big city so you could just tell me politely, especially since I just gave you my business." Then I walked away before he had a chance to say anything else. If I had said nothing I would have stewed about it and it would have ruined my day. But because I stuck up for myself I was able to let it go and just have a good time the rest of the day!

As far as the CM with the cotton candy, she probably had a reason for saying no (maybe she saw her supervisor coming or maybe she was supposed to return wth a certain number ) so even though you were disappointed, you may have let her "no" upset you too much.

I really hope you have a magical time on your next visit. Be sure to go on TOT and look for CM Ellen. She's awesome. Also, if you eat at Ariel's Grotto, ask for a waitress named Kendy. She's fantastic too!

mad4mky
09-24-2004, 05:17 PM
I have had soooo many "Magical" moments...from CM's alone at DL...that I wouldn't know where to begin to tell you.

I have also visited WDW twice (and been to DL Paris, and on a Disney Cruise). I have had, for the most part...always kind and helpful CM's. Even in DL Paris! ;)

I have had some grouchy CM's at times...but not to the extremes that you have. It's sad to hear that you had such rotten treatment at Walt's first park.
I have never gone to City Hall to complain about a CM and their treatment of us, or if we had a less than 'magical' vacation. BUT...I have gone to City Hall to give praises to certain CM's!! :D
If you don't have the magical experience that you usually get at WDW...let them know at City Hall. I have even gotten phone calls back from City Hall (I live a little south of San Francisco)...to talk about my experiences or questions I had about the park.

I hope your next trip is more magical. :)

TempoNZ
09-24-2004, 06:06 PM
I must admit all my visits to Disneyland have been brillient as have the cast members. In fact I was going to list some "magic" CM moments but to tell the truth I can't single out any because they have all been so brillient I just expect (And recieve) "Magic" service each time. Even the litle things like a joke here and there or a conversation asking about how I've enjoyed the day and where I'm from etc

Klutch
09-24-2004, 07:53 PM
While trentino's comments have apparently ruffled a few feathers, I must say I can appreciate his position. I say this while also appreciating the many wonderful CM's working at Disneyland. Unfortunately, it only takes a handful of poor CM's to give a poor impression overall. I've been visiting Disneyland since the 1960's and I have certainly noticed a downward trend in CM quality.

One, tiny example; during my last visit, I asked a CM in New Orleans Square where I could by the fritters I loved so much as a child. She shrugged and said, "I don't know". While I certainly didn't take offense, I was surprised. The CMs of years past were instructed to NEVER say "I don't know". If they didn't know something, they would find out or direct the guest to someone who could help. When I shared this incident with my aunt, a longtime CM, she was very disappointed.

I think the problem stems from many issues. First, most Disney CM's are young people and, sorry, but many young employees in 21st Century America are far from professional. Honest, I don't mean this as a slam to today's young people. I don't think young people of my generation, or generations previous, were any more disciplined. I'm showing my age here, but it wasn't long ago when unprofessional behavior, from any employee, anywhere, was typically nipped in the bud by a competent supervisor. Alas, so many places of service today operate with "no adult supervision".

Due to cost cuts, most places of business now operate with no supervisor on duty or with an underpaid, under trained, inexperienced "supervisor" or "manager". I don't have any inside knowledge of Disneyland operations, but dollars to doughnuts it operates with far fewer supervisors now than in the 1970's.

Second, as years go by it becomes more and more difficult to fire a person for any reason. Once employees make it through the ninety day probation period, they have to do something pretty heinous to be terminated. Thus, it becomes pretty difficult to motivate a CM with a bad attitude.

Third, I think there is a significant culture difference between California and Florida. I have lived on both the West Coast and East Coast for over fifteen years, respectively. I think people on the East Coast tend to be more formal and aware of traditional etiquette; not as much as used to be, but it's still there. West Coast folks tend to be more laid back, informal, and unaware of old fashioned courtesies.

Therefore, when folks from the East Coast visit Disneyland, they may take mild offense to behavior from a CM which would likely seem perfectly OK to a local. It's not that the CM intended to be rude. She is just behaving as she always has in the culture where she grew up.

Lastly, Californians are known for spontaneity. I'm from Orange County myself, and when I moved to Virginia, people were often annoyed when I suggested a sudden trip out to dinner, an unplanned drive somewhere, or a "lets wait and see when we get there" attitude. So, the CM that took trentino's call was likely not only tired of hearing questions about a new tour, but subconsciously wondering what the big deal was.

In summary, it largely depends on your point of view. OK, way too much spew, but my point of view...

adriennek
09-24-2004, 08:19 PM
Third, I think there is a significant culture difference between California and Florida. I have lived on both the West Coast and East Coast for over fifteen years, respectively. I think people on the East Coast tend to be more formal and aware of traditional etiquette; not as much as used to be, but it's still there. West Coast folks tend to be more laid back, informal, and unaware of old fashioned courtesies.

I think this is really a key point. There's a reason they call it "Southern Hospitality." I haven't been to Florida before but when we went to New Orleans, the hospitality of the people we encountered was fantastic. Even this past summer when we were still in Western states, but outside of Southern California, we had some wonderful service.

That's not to say that it's impossible to find in Southern California but I don't think it's as common. :(

Adrienne

ArthurBang
09-24-2004, 09:50 PM
As a DL CM, I've heard the opposite of WDW, and will be going there for the first time in about 15 years this coming January.

Almost everyone I know from my department that have been there come back and say how bad the service is compared to DL. It could just be what you are used to.
For instance, you had mentioned asking for a sticker from the driver on main street. Does the driver even have stickers to give out? If he did, I don't know why he wouldn't give you one.

Otherwise, you can simply go to guest relations and get one there. But if you come across unpleasant CMs at the park, I would go to guest relations and complain. The only way to weed out the bad seeds is if the resort actually knows about what it is they are doing.

I Heart Disneyland!
09-24-2004, 10:15 PM
I hear what you are saying to some degree, but, not because I've experienced anything but WONDERFUL from DL! I felt the same when I went to WDW for the first time, it felt somehow foreign (being raised and raising my own kids on DL, since the 1960's). Small World WAY weirded me out, not being a huge place outside like at DL. Everything about it seemed different, though awesome in its own right. The first time I'd ever noticed rudeness was last week, on the phone with Disneyland Delivears. I was looking for hot cocoa that I ordered last winter, the winter before, etc. Suddenly, they couldn't ship "food", even though they did previous years. Also, I wanted some of the darling tiki mugs (that people are ripping people off on, on Ebay) and they wouldn't ship THOSE because they are breakable. Years ago, DL Delivears would ship a lot more, and the lady was just not friendly. I was so disappointed. Overall, however, my experiences with DL CM have been amazing and even though I do know that Eisner is NOT Walt Disney, the CM seem to still realize that DL is a place where people come to forget about life, and just have fun! I will always choose DL over WDW, if given a choice. That's my two cents anyway! :)

screamin4ever
09-25-2004, 05:16 AM
Disneyland frustrates me. My wife and I have visited twice, once in 2001 and again in 2002. Both times we've left saying we would not be back. We are not people to complain. We are not usually very picky.

I'm a native SoCal resident, A.P. holder, AND I've had rude CM's before. Heck you should try working there and seeing the surly attitudes behind the scenes. Then you would know there was magic because on-stage there is very little bad behavior.

It is not your job to fix your attitude as some have suggested. Disneyland did not live up to your expectations and that is Disneyland's fault. Exceeding expectations used to be the goal.

The best way to deal with this is contact Disney by letter. Complaining at City Hall is fine, but a letter shows you mean it. You'll usually be offered all sorts of things as an apology. We received head of line passes and other discounts. Just report those CM's so that they are hopefully removed.

I do agree that the Pressler era was a low point for quality CM's. I'm just glad they didn't relax the grooming policies to the point where sagging in costume was acceptable. Although I'm sure Pressler would have done it if it saved a penny!

I'm sorry your trip was ruined by a few cranks. I hope the new management improves the quality all around. Things are looking up visually right now.

Come back during the Christmas holidays some time and you'll see the resort in what I think is its most magical time of year. Try after Thanksgiving but before the second week in December--mid-week preferably.

dsny1mom
09-25-2004, 06:40 AM
Trentino, you ask where the magic is. It lies in different places for different people, alot depends on one's past experiences.

For you the magic lies at WDW, for us we don't think WDW would know magic if it bit it in the behind.

I can go toe to toe with you, infact I will. :)

Want to talk about about uninformed and rude CMs?

How about making ressies for a holiday meal at WDW to find out you will be sitting at a table with a bunch of strangers that don't like children once you are seated. That's right Christmas Eve with no mention that the meal is communal seating during the making of the ressie. No consideration for the guests in assigning tables. And once you were seated, well too bad so sad, that the adults in the other party at your table show outward disdain for your children, that were as good as gold.

Or how about sitting on Main Street for hours before the parade only to have group of people come and sit ON YOUR FEET just minutes before the parade is to start. When you alert security they shrug their shoulders when the group pretends they don't speak english. When another guest says they know their language ( BTW the group spoke perfect english before security arrived) and offers to tell them in their own language they need to move security sighs with disgust and say, " I guess so". Then when the superviser arrives he moves the group a couple of feet down in front of another group of adults that had also waited hours. Then after the parade ends one of the adults in the offending group comes back and jumps on your child's feet and breaks their foot. Where was security? The group was ignorant and rude to security but they clearly didn't want to get involved. When my DH asked them what they were thinking we got a long song and dance about how they were understaffed, how there were too many people in the park, etc. etc. etc. . Too bad they weren't as good at providing protection as they were at giving excuses.

A couple of things that stick out in my memory at WDW are: We were looking for a rest roon for our then 3 yr old. When we asked a custodial CM were the nearest one was he pointed in distance, said "over there somewhere" and just kept walking. Another one is when we asked a CM on Main street were we could get a churro we were told, " In Frontierland, I think." Neither of these CMs even came close to being friendly or informed.
And don't get me started on some of the attractions CMs we've seen at WDW. It's amazing how much of their drinking binge, they went on the night before, is discussed so openly infront of guests.

I've got MANY more horror stories about WDW. So many infact we just won't go there any more, even though we live closer to WDW than we do to DL. Actually one of our realtives is a DVC member and has offered us their points for a free weeks stay, at WDW, before the end of the year. We're considering it, as the price is just about right for the amount of magic we have found at WDW.

dsny1mom

disneyperson
09-25-2004, 09:49 AM
It is natural for folk to prefer their "home park" and more easily find fault with the other guys. I'm not a local, but DL is my home park. It's part of my childhood and I will always prfer it to any other park no matter how big and grand that park may be. I've been to DW once. I encountered a ,not really rude, but pretty clueless CM there.I work in customer service myself and know a little of the self control it must take to maintain a Disney attitude all the time. I applaud all CMs who make that special effort. One more thing. People keep saying that Californians' attachment to DL is a bad thing. As if a park's ability to develop a huge following among it's own neighbors and actually stay in business mainly through them is something that should change. Let DW remain the once in a lifetime vacation spot of the country. I'm happy with my beloved DL and happy to share it with others that feel the same way. There's the magic for you.

genenpet
09-25-2004, 11:23 AM
I'm bi-coastal in my allegiances to the parks (grew up with WDW, now a Cali person), and here's a bit of what I've experienced...

There is a U-shaped curve of service at Disneyland, and a bell(e) shaped curve at WDW. At DL, you have some unbelievably into their job CMs, super friendly hospitable - willing to do the "little things" that DL has always had to do, and WDW never really got into (things like stickers and little entertainment experiences). You also have a decent number of people at the bottom end, for whom it's just a low paying job.

At WDW, the bottom end is higher, but most of the CMs are just there, being hospitable. There are precious few CMs at WDW who really really really know the parks (there is a lot more to know though). But there is the base level of southern hospitality, and the fact that WDW is looked at as a decent employer in the scheme of Orlando - would you rather work for Disney or Travelodge? Finally, when WDW gets hot in the summer, everything deteriorates, whereas although my experience with DL is far smaller, I've been there on some pretty busy days and never noticed nearly as much of a decline in service (though the fantasmic people are generally horrible during busy times).

Just more data points, but in terms of the magic of disneyland - after growing up with Florida it took me awhile to get into it, but it's really growing on me.