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Corith
11-16-2001, 09:08 AM
11/13/01: Reuters / Yahoo News: Oriental Land returns to profit in half

QuikQuote™: Oriental Land Co Ltd, the operator of Tokyo Disneyland and the newly opened Tokyo DisneySea, said on Tuesday it returned to profit in the half-year to September, thanks to strong attendance at its theme parks.


You'd think Mike would get down of his high hourse and see that if you build quality vistors will come

JeffG
11-19-2001, 01:00 PM
Or, perhaps he will note that if you build a theme park in Japan crowds will come...

I'm sure that the generally positive reviews of the Tokyo park have helped it a lot, but the fact that it is in a highly undersaturated market that goes wild over this kind of park shouldn't be ignored either.

Let's not forget that the newly opened Universal Studios Japan, which is nearly identical to their Orlando park, has had similarly impressive success this year.

-Jeff

Corith
11-19-2001, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by JeffG
I'm sure that the generally positive reviews of the Tokyo park have helped it a lot

Oh, gee, Jeff you left me filled with questions.

Does that mean if DCA had more positive reviews it would be as successful as Seas?

Hmm, I wonder why that is? Didn't it have more press at its opening that TDS? Could it be me just being California centric?

Why do you suppose that Disney Seas has positive reviews (generally) and DCA doesn't (generally)?

Do you think that it could it be that a handful of malcontents ruined the reviewers opinion? Did a small army of Annual Passport holders stormed the offices of those going to write positive reviews and force them at knife point to write bad reviews?

Then again, was it California-Americans (you know what a crazy lot they are) overloaded with all things Disney (well, both Japan and California have a Disneyland, but, hey, they don't have any studios), decided hate the park from the word go?

Oh, golly, you don't think that the reason DCA just isn't as popular as Seas is because, (shhhh, this will be our little secret), that DCA is a soulless, cheap, overgrown carnival wrapped around an overpriced mall designed by a corporate committee to wring as many dollars as possible?
Naw, that couldn't' be it. That doesn't make any sense.

Guess you're right. I see what your saying. We just need more Japanese crows here, and we just need to cut down on the Disney overload - studios, ABC, Ducks and such. Then DCA will be just a great and popular as Seas. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's the ticket.

coronamouseman
11-19-2001, 06:10 PM
As long as you bring the "Not-So-Mighty" Ducks into it, they represent a perfect analogy for DCA versus TDS:

Ducks: While other "top rate" NHL teams such as the Avalanche, Red Wings, Blues and/or Stars fight amongst themselves to buy top-flight talent, the Ducks trade away one of the two best players they ever had and one of the 10 best players in the league simply because they didn't want to pay him his market value
DCA: Rather than invest in cutting-edge attractions or at least local versions of ones already popular elsewhere (TOT, RnRC), DCA instead offered a number of fairly standard and inexpensive attractions not sophisticated enough to draw the attention or interest of Southern Californians or even out-of-towners when compared against the local competition provided by Knott's, USH or SFMM

Both the Ducks and DCA represent the lack of commitment to quality and failure in getting the job done right that typifies the Disney management style at this point.

Unfortunately for Disney, DCA is not something that they will be able to peddle away to a willing buyer at some point (the Ducks most certainly will be dumped in that manner as soon as the right buyer appears).

Corith
11-20-2001, 09:20 AM
Thanks, coronamouseman, I never noticed that sort of stuff about the Ducks (I'm not a hockey kind of guy). Very interesting.

Excuse my ignorance, but who did they trade away?

coronamouseman
11-20-2001, 09:26 AM
The Ducks traded Teemu Selanne to the SJ Sharks.
Teemu was a great fan favorite in Anaheim, was a terrific contributor to the community (would spend an hour after each game signing autographs for kids) and is recognized as one of the elite hockey players in the world.

By the way, he was also a tremendous fan of Space Mt.!

JeffG
11-20-2001, 05:28 PM
I'm pretty much done with responding to rants like Corith's 2nd post in this thread, so I have no interest in doing any kind of point by point answer to that overly simplistic nonsense.

My point in my original post here was to simply comment that the Japanese theme park market is significantly different than the one in California.

There are likely many factors contributing to the differences in how the two parks have performed. Some of it may have to do with the content/word-of-mouth of the two parks, but a lot more probably has to do with the economy, competition, cultural tastes, and numerous other things.

I don't deny in the slightest that DCA might have performed better had Disney not made some mistakes with the park's content. I also recognize that in a year where the economy has been on a downward spiral and where the travel industry has suffered some extraordinary blows, there is a good chance that any new park in California would have had a rough year.

There is a lot of complexity to what happened with Disney's theme parks this year. Oversimplifying it into the public massively rejecting the park based on some sort of moral outrage is pure nonsense.

-Jeff

Winca
11-20-2001, 07:03 PM
BIG Disagreement here.

The pure qualityof the attractions, and the attention to detail, drives Tokyo Disney Seas to the incredible profit. Good merchandise, good items make for a VERY good park.

I've been eyeing on Ebay some very decent watches, and memorabilia from Tokyo Disney Seas... the merchandise seems to have a restrained, subtle feel to them, all very beautiful and quite well made.

What do we have at Disneyland? $10.00 pins. People will buy annual passes to ensure that they can get the pins they want, and going on "new attractions" is a joke. What do you do after you go and buy your pins? Go on a ride and try to recapture memories? That's all fine, but where can you make new memories?

DCA? Please. You'd be lucky trying not to gouge your eyes out after going on Superstar Limo... (I couldn't believe they could make Cindy Crawford look that horrible). Unless the smoke during LuminAria hasn't already done that for you.


And if you want to disagree, I took some friends from Japan to Disneyland and California adventure, and when they went to California adventure, by 2pm, they had asked if we could go back to Disneyland. What really shocked me was that they went to Disneyland the night before (I got the two pass deal for them), and we entered DCA at 10AM.

-Will

"See those two pennies? That's my two cents, and you'd better not forget it.

JPirate23
11-20-2001, 07:57 PM
I so agree with JeffG!!!!
If you put DCA next to Tokyo Disneyland, it would make the same numbers that it's making w/ disney seas!! It's just that the japanese are so crazy about themeparks and would pay anyting to go in. And if u put disneyseas here, it would be the same stupid numbers (or maybe higher).

coronamouseman
11-21-2001, 01:15 AM
JeffG:

I think you are overlooking a couple of factors in Disney's and now Universal's successes in Japan:

1. It is very apparent that Disney characters, stories and parks occupy a particular status in Japan.
2. OLC has done a very good job of marketing their "product" in Japan (see latest "Land of the Rising Mickey" report at LaughingPlace.Com in regards to the marketing campaign for TDS)
3. The Universal Studios Tokyo park just opened has T2, BTF, JP, ET and a number of shows - in other words, is a "full-featured" park and not just some "underfeatured clone" of USH or USF

The Japanese are concientous consumers as much as any Americans or Western Europeans are (ever been in a meeting with Japanese Businessmen? - trust me, they are as tough as any Europeans or Americans)

In the case of both DisneySea and the new Universal park, the amazing attendance figures you see are the result of (1) heavy investment by the park ownership in product quality (2) attention to product details and product creativity and (3) well-thought-out marketing of those products.

And which one of those three items, if any, can you attribute to DCA?

Corith
11-21-2001, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by JPirate23
I so agree with JeffG!!!!
If you put DCA next to Tokyo Disneyland, it would make the same numbers that it's making w/ Disney seas!! It's just that the Japanese are so crazy about theme parks and would pay anything to go in. And if u put Disney seas here, it would be the same stupid numbers (or maybe higher).

If that was true, then why build anything of quality in Japan? If junk like DCA would do just as well, then Disney should have saved buckets of money, build on the cheap, and relied on the Disney name to draw in the crowds. And, yes, Jeff, I do remember that Seas was not built by Disney.

And, lets see a show of hands of who thinks that Seas would be doing as poorly as DCA . . . Hmmm, I see a few of you, but not many. Oh, put your hand down Paul, I see you hiding in the back. You too, Mike.

Wait just a sec, didn't Disney try that? Hmm, let me think for a moment . . . Yes, I do recall that Disney execs came up with the idea that if they build it cheap, visitors will flock just because it has the Disney name on it. Didn't they even place it next to a big name theme park as an additional draw. Hmm, for the life of me I can't recall the name of the place.

Come on Jeff, help me out here. I know you love to comment on every one of my posts, so you must know the answer. Its on the tip of my tongue, I just can't seem to remember. I hate when that happens. Oh, well, it will come to me. Besides, if I can't remember, it must not be very important.

Corith
11-21-2001, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by TP2000
. . .It was a theme park designed by committee and born in spreadsheets and conference rooms. I doubt anyone really, truly, deeply loves DCA. I doubt there is anyone in Burbank who wants to nurture and perfect DCA or it's attractions for the sole purpose of putting on a great show.

Burbank and TDA are now scrambling to fix the mistake that DCA has become, but since there is still no heart or intense love there, they continue to botch things up and prevent a full recovery.

DCA simply needs a lot of help, especially at 43 dollars per person.


Truer words were never spoken

JPirate23
11-21-2001, 02:36 PM
Corith, get a life!!!!
it's only a themepark

Corith
11-21-2001, 03:00 PM
Testy, aren't we.

innerSpaceman
11-21-2001, 03:50 PM
Now, now folks, let's not bicker. "Get a Life, it's only a theme park" is a very odd comment to make to anyone posting on the mousepad. We all know it's just a theme park, but on the mousepad it's a given that the theme park is the major topic of discussion. That does not mean that it's (necessarily) the major topic of our life, just the major topic of mousepad.

Back to the topic at hand here (if I can avoid flame attack by discussing the topic), let's put aside all the mumbo jumbo about the culture of Japan vs. the culture of California. If DCA had done well in Nippon and DisneySea had done poorly in Anaheim, then we could look for some mysterious underlying societal reason. But when a finely crafted park like DisneySea does well and a poorly crafted park like DCA does badly, then we need look no further for the answer. People will buy products or services that are well made and well marketed. People will not buy products or services that are poorly made and poorly marketed. It's that simple. All this tripe about the Japanese being willing to buy anything with the Disney name on it regardless of quality is ridiculous and frankly insulting.