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indiejones
10-25-2021, 10:36 AM
What more would we expect from Bob Paycheck? Just another slap in the face. Pay more to get less.

olegc
10-25-2021, 10:55 AM
yeah. it should read "Disney reacts to negative press and claims they always planned to suspend Dream key sales"

parking increase to pay for tram repair cause, you know, even though we didnt take care of them if you want them - you gotta pay.

And I fully expect another ticket price increase in February. Disney is under significant pressure to show a rebound for FY2022 and even surpase goals cause, you know, the new boss has to look like he has his act together. Of course - when prices on Keys increase again next year, and the bad taste of no reservations has not left folks' minds, the drop in renewals will come right at the end of Q4 2022. It will be an interesting time in the company - will they focus on Guest Satisfaction or really just revenue and the stock price (oh I know they've always been focused on that - but will it be their ONLY metric).

GrumpyGoofyGuy
10-25-2021, 03:48 PM
And once again, my favorite new add pops up on this thread! LOL!! (The "S#It Show Supervisor" shirt from Lilicloth)

NickP
10-27-2021, 08:32 AM
I really don't go down the spiral of negativity with Disney decisions but watching things unfold with how the Magic Key, specifically the Dream, the past month and a half or so is just too much for me. The "Disney is losing its magic" and "Walt would be rolling over in his grave" cliches were always thrown around much too easily, in the past for some of the most trivial reasons but its gotten to the point where I am now on that bandwagon.
I have never been the type to shake my fist at a corporation for wanting to turn a profit and say "how much is enough?" but, again, I am pretty much at that point.
I get that they need to make up some revenue for parks being closed but it will be interesting to see how long that will actually be a valid reason.
When the Magic Keys were announced my wife wanted to sign up immediately, I told her I wanted to watch and see how everything looked as far as reservations, and boy am I glad I did. What a mess. The Dream Key is what I would've signed up for since it was the only key comparable to my old Signature pass.
I have seen so many folks say "the key works for me, you just have to plan" OK, great that it works for you, it doesn't for me and lots of other people. I live in NorCal, so my trips were somewhere in the middle of spontaneous and planned, at least a couple weeks out - now thats just not an option. If I was traveling for work I would stop in after I was done for the day - not an option now.
Pile on no more FP replacing it with LL, which while I know is optional, still just rubs me wrong.
I get the argument in regards to spending of AP's vs tourists - but I really don't know how much weight it carries. Personally I spent a good amount on food and merch each trip.
For now if I get the urge to go, it will be just be a for a day, once in a while. Money that would've been put towards a MK will now be put towards a trip to WDW for the 50th sometime next year. I realize Disney is still getting my money but we have only ever been to HS and Epcot earlier this year and this will be a better value for a family vacation. I will reassess the MK program after that trip and hopefully things are better.
I really wish Iger stayed on, he wasn't perfect but anyone is better than Chapek and unfortunately I am afraid he will be around as long as he turns profits. Judging by park crowds it looks like people are going to just keep paying whatever Disney dictates.

olegc
10-27-2021, 09:35 AM
this is a radical idea - but what if all this is a plan to increase West Coast trips to WDW.... ha ha.

Seriously - NickP reiterates one of the points I've always made- that the notion of APs "not spending and just hanging out" has been a crutch used too long by folks in position to justify increases in price and policies to reduce costs. In a conversation I had online years ago someone told me my AP activity is nowhere near what a family on vacation spends - and they used the number $10K. Seriously - if that family spends that much they don't go annually to WDW. at least average guests. At least as far as I would think - if others have a similar position then show me some numbers.

Here's one more "Disney does stuff to try and convince us its all OK" conspiracy theories. Recently I watched one of my favorite vloggers, Ordinary Adventures, relay their trip this past Saturday to the parks. They mentioned that they were watching like hawks and reservation spots popped up for Disneyland. I said oh, cool, good for them. But... then Fresh Baked also had a video mentioning the same thing. 5 Fires had one, Best Life and Beyond had one, and Adventures in Design had one... All with "reservations popped up". Frankly I cant really prove that reservations were not available since I myself was not looking to go and I was not tracking - but its VERY interesting that all of these vloggers all had spots on the same day and it was a pop up occurrence.

Like I said - conspiracy theory fodder - but it does make you go hmmmmm

GrumpyGoofyGuy
10-27-2021, 10:18 AM
I really don't go down the spiral of negativity with Disney decisions but watching things unfold with how the Magic Key, specifically the Dream, the past month and a half or so is just too much for me. The "Disney is losing its magic" and "Walt would be rolling over in his grave" cliches were always thrown around much too easily, in the past for some of the most trivial reasons but its gotten to the point where I am now on that bandwagon.
I have never been the type to shake my fist at a corporation for wanting to turn a profit and say "how much is enough?" but, again, I am pretty much at that point.
I get that they need to make up some revenue for parks being closed but it will be interesting to see how long that will actually be a valid reason.
When the Magic Keys were announced my wife wanted to sign up immediately, I told her I wanted to watch and see how everything looked as far as reservations, and boy am I glad I did. What a mess. The Dream Key is what I would've signed up for since it was the only key comparable to my old Signature pass.
I have seen so many folks say "the key works for me, you just have to plan" OK, great that it works for you, it doesn't for me and lots of other people. I live in NorCal, so my trips were somewhere in the middle of spontaneous and planned, at least a couple weeks out - now thats just not an option. If I was traveling for work I would stop in after I was done for the day - not an option now.
Pile on no more FP replacing it with LL, which while I know is optional, still just rubs me wrong.
I get the argument in regards to spending of AP's vs tourists - but I really don't know how much weight it carries. Personally I spent a good amount on food and merch each trip.
For now if I get the urge to go, it will be just be a for a day, once in a while. Money that would've been put towards a MK will now be put towards a trip to WDW for the 50th sometime next year. I realize Disney is still getting my money but we have only ever been to HS and Epcot earlier this year and this will be a better value for a family vacation. I will reassess the MK program after that trip and hopefully things are better.
I really wish Iger stayed on, he wasn't perfect but anyone is better than Chapek and unfortunately I am afraid he will be around as long as he turns profits. Judging by park crowds it looks like people are going to just keep paying whatever Disney dictates.

Ditto to the max. We live in Central California and couldn't have said it any better. You nailed it for us as well.

Promo-Man
10-27-2021, 11:23 AM
As a former Premier Passport holder and now a Dream Magic Key holder plus holding a Platinum Pass Renewal Exchange for Walt Disney World that I have until the end of December 2030 to activate. Note: I have a trip on the books to Walt Disney World for May 2022.

I am not pleased with the lost of Photo Pass option on my pass. Yes, it is a pain to have to plan and make a Park Reservation instead of being able to just drop over.
I still do not spend the entire day in the park when I go, I am usually there for two to four hours at the Disneyland Resort.

I predict that after the first of the year Disney will open Dream Magic Key sales again. As attendance will drop slightly.

As much as I want the requirement for a park reservation to be rescinded, I do not think it will happen.

NickP
10-27-2021, 03:09 PM
this is a radical idea - but what if all this is a plan to increase West Coast trips to WDW.... ha ha.

Seriously - NickP reiterates one of the points I've always made- that the notion of APs "not spending and just hanging out" has been a crutch used too long by folks in position to justify increases in price and policies to reduce costs. In a conversation I had online years ago someone told me my AP activity is nowhere near what a family on vacation spends - and they used the number $10K. Seriously - if that family spends that much they don't go annually to WDW. at least average guests. At least as far as I would think - if others have a similar position then show me some numbers.

Here's one more "Disney does stuff to try and convince us its all OK" conspiracy theories. Recently I watched one of my favorite vloggers, Ordinary Adventures, relay their trip this past Saturday to the parks. They mentioned that they were watching like hawks and reservation spots popped up for Disneyland. I said oh, cool, good for them. But... then Fresh Baked also had a video mentioning the same thing. 5 Fires had one, Best Life and Beyond had one, and Adventures in Design had one... All with "reservations popped up". Frankly I cant really prove that reservations were not available since I myself was not looking to go and I was not tracking - but its VERY interesting that all of these vloggers all had spots on the same day and it was a pop up occurrence.

Like I said - conspiracy theory fodder - but it does make you go hmmmmm

I am also not one to jump into conspiracies either and I don't follow vloggers but in all of the various Disney FB groups I am in I always see keyholders talk about reservations just pop up.
I do believe after the initial reporting on the matter they were feeling the heat so they threw more dates out there to quiet it down a bit.
The fine print for AP/MK always stated that they were limited and could pause sales so they gave themselves an out with that but this is the first time it had ever happened.
Small sample size but I don't believe in the short life of the Flex pass, reservations were ever an issue.


As a former Premier Passport holder and now a Dream Magic Key holder plus holding a Platinum Pass Renewal Exchange for Walt Disney World that I have until the end of December 2030 to activate. Note: I have a trip on the books to Walt Disney World for May 2022.

I am not pleased with the lost of Photo Pass option on my pass. Yes, it is a pain to have to plan and make a Park Reservation instead of being able to just drop over.
I still do not spend the entire day in the park when I go, I am usually there for two to four hours at the Disneyland Resort.

I predict that after the first of the year Disney will open Dream Magic Key sales again. As attendance will drop slightly.

As much as I want the requirement for a park reservation to be rescinded, I do not think it will happen.

I agree, after the rush of the holidays they will resume sales as its non-peak usually and yes I do believe, unfortunately, reservations are here to stay. I just hope something is figured out in the future to make it more accessible especially for Dream holders.

Berry Princess
10-27-2021, 06:53 PM
I get it with the APs vs. tourist junk. We spent our fair share every time we went. Always a meal, always snacks, drinks, and whatever else on the way out. I had got lucky that when my husband called earlier in the month to ask about switching the 25th to a different date sooner that the 24th had opened up that morning when I looked. So it was an easy switch luckily. Yet I know I get sick of seeing the comments about how its easy to get a weekend date if you want it. Its really not that easy unless you book it as it opens or you are ALWAYS checking the calendar. Yet who wants to spend all day off and on doing that? Right now we have 1 Sat. coming up before the holiday rush kicks in and it wasn't booked up at the time I grabbed it. The rest of our dates our weekdays but we are lucky that we can do that. Our daughter homeschools and my husband has the time to take off. He was the one that said get weekdays. I feel for those of you that would buy APs and travel here a couple times a year or more. I have seen many not happy with how it is. It just starts to come off more stress than one wants for a trip.


Curious on when the vloggers said they saw reservations open for last Saturday. I know it was at one point a couple times I saw it opened up as the weekend got closer. I had assumed some was from those canceling and others from Disney opening more up. Husband had band stuff on Saturday so we just left our Sunday plans in place. Which I have to say as crowded as the parks looked we did a lot in the time we were there. We showed up late afternoon and left around 8:30 or so. BTW, Friday is showing open at this time with DCA as start. It was both and Halloween as well but when I refreshed it went to that. The first weekend in Nov is open again right now with a bunch more for the weekdays so I am guessing there was a move of reservations spots from other ticket buckets to the keys buckets by Disney. Now I will go back on to your conspiracy with the vloggers though and I get it for sure. Its hard to take them all seriously in manner areas. I tried when the parks reopened to watch a few different ones while there and they were just all pretty much annoying. So I don't bother with that stuff. Yet it wouldn't surprise me if there was a little playing around in that area with Disney and them to try to lessen the negative press on reservations.

olegc
10-28-2021, 06:55 AM
Curious on when the vloggers said they saw reservations open for last Saturday. I know it was at one point a couple times I saw it opened up as the weekend got closer. I had assumed some was from those canceling and others from Disney opening more up. Husband had band stuff on Saturday so we just left our Sunday plans in place. Which I have to say as crowded as the parks looked we did a lot in the time we were there. We showed up late afternoon and left around 8:30 or so. BTW, Friday is showing open at this time with DCA as start. It was both and Halloween as well but when I refreshed it went to that. The first weekend in Nov is open again right now with a bunch more for the weekdays so I am guessing there was a move of reservations spots from other ticket buckets to the keys buckets by Disney. Now I will go back on to your conspiracy with the vloggers though and I get it for sure. Its hard to take them all seriously in manner areas. I tried when the parks reopened to watch a few different ones while there and they were just all pretty much annoying. So I don't bother with that stuff. Yet it wouldn't surprise me if there was a little playing around in that area with Disney and them to try to lessen the negative press on reservations.

Yeah - this is why I said I have no reference data and just the video evidence where they all were there Sat. I did see that the first two weeks of November opened up again - but mostly weekday spots. that was yesterday (wed) around 3pm. this morning (thur 8am) there are still days for both parks available till Nov 10th. a couple other weekdays in Nov and then only DCA in December on weekdays.

Which btw is probably the plan with MSEP coming back. Get keyholders to come on weekdays and fill the park led to the light like moths...

AnotherJenny
10-28-2021, 10:58 AM
Small sample size but I don't believe in the short life of the Flex pass, reservations were ever an issue.


My sister had a Flex as did my friend and both passes were scanned into my app. There were definitely days we wanted to go that no reservations were available. Sometimes on short notice but in the early part of 2020 after Rise of the Resistance opened the weekend days would get snapped up early. I don't think the pass was really around long enough for enough people to renew down to that level to know what availability would have been long term.

GrumpyGoofyGuy
10-28-2021, 02:47 PM
Don't you think MSEP will probably be going to CA? I mean, they really have no Parade or nighttime entertainment for the holidays with WOC being down until 2022.

olegc
10-28-2021, 03:06 PM
Don't you think MSEP will probably be going to CA? I mean, they really have no Parade or nighttime entertainment for the holidays with WOC being down until 2022.


No - they've already stated its the Main Street Electrical Parade and hinted you will see it coming down Main St USA (when it was at CA it was called Disney's Electrical Parade).
Will they pull a fast one and make that move to CA? that could always happen. Thats why I think this wont come until after the holidays - in order to get your locals to keep coming.

Berry Princess
10-28-2021, 03:11 PM
Don't you think MSEP will probably be going to CA? I mean, they really have no Parade or nighttime entertainment for the holidays with WOC being down until 2022.

I don't think it will be here before the end of the year. Next year is when MSEP would have debuted 50 yrs ago so why would they put it over in DCA? As well as the food booths that will be up for the holidays will take up space along the route. Either I can see it being pushed in January to lure people in during a usually slower time of year or since it started in June 1972, they could use it to kick off summer.

GrumpyGoofyGuy
10-28-2021, 09:20 PM
All good points. Probably after the Holidays in DL. Makes more sense to me now.

NickP
11-01-2021, 12:30 PM
just saw online that there are no dates available for December for any Key level. I really hope keyholders start complaining more so that something changes

newhdplayer
11-01-2021, 12:32 PM
just saw online that there are no dates available for December for any Key level. I really hope keyholders start complaining more so that something changes

What a surprise......no dates available at all? :eyeroll:

olegc
11-01-2021, 12:40 PM
What a surprise......no dates available at all? :eyeroll:

all dates for all keys are sold out. entire month of december. To NickP - I think folks have already been doing that and there was no movement until it hit mainstream news here locally. However, they are covered in their language for availability of reservations in the agreements people sign when they purchase a key. So technically they dont have to do anything and can ignore the complaints. As they get closer to each week in the holidays they will probably release any spots available not taken by tickets and shuffle those over to the key holders.

Disney will hold out as long as it can to this current model - probably thinking if they can last through the holidays without a huge publicly facing news story it will all blow over.

Berry Princess
11-01-2021, 12:41 PM
just saw online that there are no dates available for December for any Key level. I really hope keyholders start complaining more so that something changes

Yep been that way for a couple days or so at least. I did see 2 days open but as fast as they pop up they are gone. I wouldn't be surprised though if we see things open up a little here and there as the dates get closer because Disney does a shuffle of reservations from other buckets. I'm sure if/when that happens they will get picked up just as fast.


Disney will hold out as long as it can to this current model - probably thinking if they can last through the holidays without a huge publicly facing news story it will all blow over.

Its wishful thinking on their part if that is the case. I wouldn't be surprised to see the local paper soon bring this up again or closer to December if Disney doesn't shuffle things around enough.

NickP
11-01-2021, 01:22 PM
I think folks have already been doing that and there was no movement until it hit mainstream news here locally. However, they are covered in their language for availability of reservations in the agreements people sign when they purchase a key. So technically they dont have to do anything and can ignore the complaints. As they get closer to each week in the holidays they will probably release any spots available not taken by tickets and shuffle those over to the key holders.

Disney will hold out as long as it can to this current model - probably thinking if they can last through the holidays without a huge publicly facing news story it will all blow over.

oh yeah, I thought I mentioned earlier that the contract language covers them, its generally the same as the AP contract, this is just new territory with reservations, capacity.
I have been watching things closely since the program was announced. My wife wanted to rush out and get them as soon as they were announced but I held off and I am glad I did. I saw things stirring in early October, then the issues hit OC Register and KTLA, which is when they quickly released more days, which lasted about a week or two before going back to limited days available or the "just keep checking" method.
In all of the different FB groups I'm in, the complaints are pretty light at the moment, I imagine as the news spreads more about December being sold out, it will catch more steam. But yeah I agree, they can just ignore them for now and reshuffle as necessary. Honestly, the only thing that has a chance of making a change would be if come next August there was a huge chunk of keyholders who chose not to renew, though I am not optimistic as a lot of folks have no issue just paying what Disney dictates.
I am torn, even though I am not currently a keyholder, I am irritated for those that are and I am not psyched about the program and don't anticipate signing up as the way it currently is. I am missing the parks and still might go for Candlelight weekend, though albeit begrudgingly.
Again, I am not the type to shake my fist at corporations making money, or a complainer in general but this just doesn't seem magical at all. Over the past few months reasons - or excuses, whatever you want to call them - regarding capacity, staffing, unions, etc. have been pointed to but at some point they won't carry much weight.

olegc
11-01-2021, 04:25 PM
oh yeah, I thought I mentioned earlier that the contract language covers them, its generally the same as the AP contract, this is just new territory with reservations, capacity.
I have been watching things closely since the program was announced. My wife wanted to rush out and get them as soon as they were announced but I held off and I am glad I did. I saw things stirring in early October, then the issues hit OC Register and KTLA, which is when they quickly released more days, which lasted about a week or two before going back to limited days available or the "just keep checking" method.
In all of the different FB groups I'm in, the complaints are pretty light at the moment, I imagine as the news spreads more about December being sold out, it will catch more steam. But yeah I agree, they can just ignore them for now and reshuffle as necessary. Honestly, the only thing that has a chance of making a change would be if come next August there was a huge chunk of keyholders who chose not to renew, though I am not optimistic as a lot of folks have no issue just paying what Disney dictates.
I am torn, even though I am not currently a keyholder, I am irritated for those that are and I am not psyched about the program and don't anticipate signing up as the way it currently is. I am missing the parks and still might go for Candlelight weekend, though albeit begrudgingly.
Again, I am not the type to shake my fist at corporations making money, or a complainer in general but this just doesn't seem magical at all. Over the past few months reasons - or excuses, whatever you want to call them - regarding capacity, staffing, unions, etc. have been pointed to but at some point they won't carry much weight.

I submitted my October, November, and december ressies back in early september. 2 in october, 1 in november, and 3 in december. This then prevented me from having a free ressie to use ad hoc - so I suffered a little. Now I have one floating and nothing is available. I knew, though, that the Holidays would be hard to get as we got closer (even a month out) because of everything that was happening. I agree that as soon as folks get into the groove on Holidays (seeing more commercials, getting closer to the 12th) they will look at the calendar and their jaws will drop. what I really dislike is that any openings of any kind tend to happen overnight - so you lose sleep until you are able to land something.

Disney wins in all the scenarios as I've said before too. If you buy a pass and cant go they get extra money. And the parks are not as crowded (allegedly). If you buy a ticket they get full price. I have seen some announcements where they are now sticking to the "Disney's reservation system provides the best opportunity to control attendance for the best experience" and no Covid hints anywhere. Its a telling way to deflect and claim a nebulous program without visibility its actually a good thing for all. I've even started to hear some people try to spin the positive and say that Disney leadership is just trying to get over the reopening hump. Once revenue is flowing smoothly they will back off and open it up some more. One even said they are praying for Chapek to do well and then reward all of us with his benevolent love and give us more slots and more events (ok, that last part I added about the whole love thing). But there is ZERO indication that this is a temporary plan - and if Ops are cut short and tickets are high and passholders limited - they are making plenty of profit and that's driving the decisions as we all know. Hoping for the best in people for large multi-faceted global conglomerates - particularly in entertainment - is a futile practice.

NickP
11-02-2021, 06:47 PM
Looks like a bunch of November dates opened up for keyholders, no December though
Saw you on one of Rosie's IG posts olegc, seems like there a lot of us on the same page, the program sucks but it is what it is and they've covered themselves. Saw that on the keyholder page they now put a big "!" about availability, so yeah, more "Moose outside should've told you" signs

Berry Princess
11-02-2021, 07:07 PM
Looks like a bunch of November dates opened up for keyholders, no December though
Saw you on one of Rosie's IG posts olegc, seems like there a lot of us on the same page, the program sucks but it is what it is and they've covered themselves. Saw that on the keyholder page they now put a big "!" about availability, so yeah, more "Moose outside should've told you" signs

LOL

Yes saw that earlier today. There was a few Dec days that had popped up but as fast as they do they are gone again. I have our 2 days this month, 2 next month and then 2 in Jan I set. IMO the having to check the calendar so many times a day as some tell everyone to do is insane. It shouldn't be that way. Most people don't have time to check it a handful of times or more each day.

Chelsie
11-03-2021, 06:51 AM
I get the pandemic capacity limitation argument (but if you've been lately, you know how packed it is again), but before all this, how many days did all of us "hanging out" APs take up so much room that the front gates had to be closed to "tourist" guests paying full price? I can't remember the gates closing other than perhaps Christmas & New Year's. That isn't a good reason to limit us to the point that Keyholders can't get in.

olegc
11-03-2021, 07:08 AM
I get the pandemic capacity limitation argument (but if you've been lately, you know how packed it is again), but before all this, how many days did all of us "hanging out" APs take up so much room that the front gates had to be closed to "tourist" guests paying full price? I can't remember the gates closing other than perhaps Christmas & New Year's. That isn't a good reason to limit us to the point that Keyholders can't get in.

thats just it - there are no official government mandated restrictions on disneyland right now. And they've never mentioned pandemic key words during their current discussions about park capacity. These days they just use the words "park capacity". So they are implying they're still under pandemic controls - but there is nothing holding them back officially. Reservation capacity is not the same as Park capacity.