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MommyTo3Boys1Girl
07-21-2004, 03:01 PM
I looked back a few pages and didn't see anymore news, unless it was added to the original thread regarding the last incident. Anyone have anything updated? TIA!

Darkbeer
07-21-2004, 03:47 PM
Stopped by the resort during my lunch break today.... BTMRR is still closed......

Hamradio
07-21-2004, 04:09 PM
They should rename the attraction, "Big Blunder."

AVP
07-21-2004, 04:13 PM
The ride will not repoen until:

1) DOSH releases their findings and details any corrective action needed.
2) Disney completes the corrective action.
3) DOSH is satisfied that Disney has completed the corrective action.

The DOSH report is not expected until sometime in August, according to one of my sources. After that, it just depends on what, if anything, DOSH requires Disney to do. If they find that they only need to re-train the cast members on a proceedure, the ride could be open the next day. If they say that they have to reprogram or rebuild something, it could be much longer than that.

AVP

MommyTo3Boys1Girl
07-21-2004, 08:47 PM
Thanks for the updates. I hope things get taken care of by our trip in November.

Saratoga75
07-22-2004, 12:34 AM
Hopefully things will be taken care of sooner with the appropriate action. A family trip we had planned for next week has been postponed due to this. Were trying to postpone the trip as long as possible, but either way will have to end up going sometime next month, so i can only hope for the best.

dldhistory
07-22-2004, 07:15 PM
I could not find the thread about the incident on BTMRR so i thought i would post this here..
Here are some photos of them inspecting the track the morning after the incident:


http://www.dldhistory.com/misc/

--Richard
http://www.dldhistory.com
THe Most Unique Disneyland History Site

TimBuk2
07-22-2004, 07:21 PM
Thanks for the updates. I hope things get taken care of by our trip in November.

Please don't take your 2 youngin's on that ride. They're way too cute to get hurt.

Realizing there's a slight danger in ANY ride at ANY park, this one just seems to have so many problems they won't go away. My understanding was this last one was "operator error".

When I was there in June we tried 3 times to get on it, all of which there was some problem. We gave up, and that was before this latest incident.

For me personally, I've riden it probably 50-80 times since 1979, that's enough for me. I would stick with Indy or Space Mtn.

Have fun in the Fall.

MommyTo3Boys1Girl
07-22-2004, 10:02 PM
Thanks for the warning. My kids will not be tall enough anyway. I have been going to DLR since I was a kid, yearly and have always loved BTMRR. My 80 yo Grandpa loved it when we took him, he was at the park opening day and I wish he was going to be with us when they celebrate 50 years next year. It is the one "roller coaster" that my mom will go on, she hates rides like that. It saddens me that these things happened to this great attraction. But I will continue to ride it, why because I love it. I don't believe that this accident was the rides fault. Operator error can happen on ANY attraction and had it happened elsewhere it might not have been such a big deal. I rode it in May and although I thought about the man that died as we were on that part of the ride, I wasn't afraid. If it is my time it is my time.
But thanks again for being concerned about my boys, oh and for the compliment. :)

Klutch
07-23-2004, 05:56 AM
There's a very good article at Jim Hill Media about BTMRR. Jim suggests the ride isn't going anywhere because copies exist at WDW, DLP, and TDL.

Interestingly, Jim also quotes a source who reports while the accident wich resulted in the death of a young man was unusual and tragic, bumps and thumps are nothing new for BTMRR. Apparently, when such incidents occurred in the past, management would show up to apologize and hand out free vouchers for meals and future park admission. This used to make people happy and keep such incidents out of the press.

These days, everybody wants to hire a lawyer. Also, with the advent of web sites such as Mouseplanet, news of incidents at DL tend to spread quickly.

Check it out at:

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/articles/showarticle.php?ID=982

Let us consider that riding BTMRR, or any other attraction at DL, is much, much safer than riding in a car on US highways. If the media reported every automobile death, most people would be afraid to ride in a car. Hey, maybe that's a good way to reduce traffic...

MommyTo3Boys1Girl
07-23-2004, 01:29 PM
He does have some valid points in his article. I mean if those close DL BTMRR then what is going to stop people from fearing for their safety on the one in DW?

mystycalchyk
07-23-2004, 02:01 PM
Operator Error means just that operator error.

If BTMRR is open when I go in September you can bet I will go on it, and yes....bad aunt that I am, I will take my neice and nephew with me. Its just ridiculous to say its not safe because a PERSON screwed up.

Given that none of us would ever drive, fly or take a boat anywhere....goodness knows they have accidents - and oh my gosh its usually due to operator error!!! The horror!!!
Was the accident that happened last year tragic? Absolutely. Could it ever happen again? Of course. That is why they are called accidents. We cant foresee them. Things happen...Life goes on. You choose or do not choose to take a certain amount of risk every day simply by walking out of your door.
Statistically Im safer on Big thunder than I am getting in my car to drive to work...which I do every single day of the work week.

Sorry for the rant but it gets so frustrating to hear the complaining. (it was the big Blunder remark that got my goat)

Tigertail777
07-23-2004, 03:09 PM
so... statistically your car has had 3 accidents in 10 months? wow. your insurance must be high! :D

I would normally agree with everyone about a car being safer, however I have never had 3 even minor accidents with my car in a period of 10 months. Something just isnt right in the maintenance or training of cast members or both. I find it funny how people can just accept these little accidents like nothing happened, but the ride has been running for many years without any accidents that cause any major damage, and at least 2 of those accidents did so; one to human life and a large part of the train, and the other damaged one of the train cars bad enough that it had to be taken out to be fixed. Something in the running of the attraction has changed and I highly doubt its soley the operators fault each time, to blame the operator every time is ridiculous and is a shameful disservice to the person running the ride, who more than likely did as much of what Disney told them to do in such situations as possible. I dont care how old the operators are they are not brain dead zombies, and if Disney hired and put into position brain dead zombies, then I would say its more Disney's fault that anyone else's that these things have occured. The cast member is just too easy a target for everyone, when it really is Disney who is responsible for the cast members actions. If they were not doing their job they should have detected through attitude etc along time ago what kind of person they were and fired them. There is a reason that in the old days they used to scrutinize cast members a lot more. I am sorry but the buck stops with Disney.

Wendi
07-23-2004, 03:41 PM
so... statistically your car has had 3 accidents in 10 months? wow. your insurance must be high!

This would only work if you were the only person to have ridden BTMRR for 10 months straight!!! Nice try though...

I actually don't fear this ride as much as I fear that there could be an operator error on a ride with more serious issues - imagine not being strapped into the Maliboomer properly! I think that everyone running BTMRR will be extra-cautious when it does run again just because they can't ever allow for this kind of thing to happen again.

Xclipse129
07-23-2004, 03:47 PM
nothing against you Wendi , but with the accident when that man died, workers should have been trained more than usually because of that. Ever since that accident 2 more has happened.. I used to work at at DL and training was like 3 weeks.. They need to step up the workers or acutally hire certified/trained workers by the state to operate this ride.. I wonder what Osha is planning to do about the re training procedures...

BTMichael
07-23-2004, 04:15 PM
The fact that DOSH hasn't released a final report and/or recommendations probably means that BTMRR will be closed next week also, bringing us to the beginning of August.

The family has decided that if BTMRR isn't open 8 days before our trip to DL on August 8 (which would make it July 31), we would cancel our vacation (only costing us $50 if cancellation is more than 7 days before start of trip).

First summer without a trip to DL in 7 years. Bummer! :(

MommyTo3Boys1Girl
07-23-2004, 09:56 PM
First I want to clarify, only because my DH is a commercial pilot and I was a flight attendant. Someone said most plane crashes are due to human error and that is totally false. LOL

Ok now on to the topic at hand.

Am I missing something? Did the train not come apart when the man was killed? How was THAT human error? Sure they say they heard a noise, but things break. Maybe they should have pulled the train. But unless someone purposefully didn't do maintenance on the train, or sent it on knowing it was going to break and someone was going to die, that is NOT human error. It is mechanical failure.
This time the story is that a CM let a train in an occupied side of the station. That is human error. It seems to me an easy fix for that would be to not allow them to do that. Have the computer set up so that it cannot happen.
I think Disney is to blame to a point. But...people make mistakes. That is why they are called accidents and that is why it is called a mistake. It sure wasn't reported, BTMRR had an on purpose today!

Explicit
07-23-2004, 10:05 PM
The fact that DOSH hasn't released a final report and/or recommendations probably means that BTMRR will be closed next week also, bringing us to the beginning of August.

The family has decided that if BTMRR isn't open 8 days before our trip to DL on August 8 (which would make it July 31), we would cancel our vacation (only costing us $50 if cancellation is more than 7 days before start of trip).

First summer without a trip to DL in 7 years. Bummer! :(

Over one ride? Its a fun ride, but not worth canceling a whole trip. I don't care if its your favorite ride, there is more to do then just BTMR.

BTMichael
07-24-2004, 05:19 AM
Over one ride? Its a fun ride, but not worth canceling a whole trip. I don't care if its your favorite ride, there is more to do then just BTMR.
Call it the needle that broke the camel's back. A very BIG needle. BTMRR is my favorite and a top-2 ride for my wife and daughter (along with the Matterhorn). For me, it's a ride I go on several times each day during our typical stay of 4-6 days.

I remember what it was like last summer with Space Mountain closed. More people in NOS, Frontierland and Adventureland. Add Fantasmic to the mix and it was a mess in the afternoon and evening.

So if BTMRR were to remain closed, a lot more people will migrate to NOS and Adventureland. They along with the Fantasmic "squatters" will clog up the best part of DL even further. I'd rather save up our funds for a time when DL is better prepared for a large summer crowd.

Wesley815
07-24-2004, 07:11 AM
Please don't take your 2 youngin's on that ride. They're way too cute to get hurt.Better not take them anywhere in your car, don't let them eat food (they might choke and die!), don't let them take a bath or shower incase they drown or slip and fall, don't let them sleep in a bed incase they suffocate in the sheets, don't let them ride a bike incase they fall off and get hurt, never fly in an airplane, and most importantly NEVER *ever* let them have fun in life and take risks.

:rolleyes:

myron61090
07-24-2004, 07:54 AM
^ ooh ooh, that reminds me of a poem... the title is..."RISK"

and it also reminds me of a quote my english teacher used to say "the brave might not live forever, but the cowardly don't live at all"

if you like the ride then ride it, as long as you understand the risks. if you don't want to "endanger" you life, then fine, do not go to disneyland at all. because disneyland is all a matter of perspective. you may either see it as a fun place where you can let yourself be young again or you may see it as a PROBABLE derailing, a freak accident here and there, an accident waiting to happen in other words.

you can either enjoy your trip to disneyland, riding all the rides you want, eating all you want to eat; OR you can sulk all day long complaining of undertrained workers, dangerous/poisonous food, long lines etc. if you are the latter, then stick to the shops. then again, who would want to pay admission to disneyland just to shop?

so its an operator's fault; everybody makes mistakes. so its a mechanical fault; hasn't your car ever overheated; or your computer crash? so it's the fault of disney for undertraining its workers; hasn't there ever been a class with the best teacher, but there are still the inevitable delinquent students? we seem to be demanding so much that we think that these people are superheroes not doing their heroic jobs.

two men looked out prison bars; one saw mud, the other saw stars. its all a matter of how you look at it






just had to let that out.

Wesley815
07-24-2004, 08:13 AM
Plus those "operators" (attractions host) get paid $7.60 an hour, that's not much money to have your safety and life in their hands. And consider WAL*MART pays $8 an hour here, heck even In-N-Out (southern CA fast food) pays $8.10!

Of course I'm not trying to make it sound "ok" that they make mistakes... but I am saying that paying someone so little with so much responsibility isn't the best thing to do. Disney doesn't care though, there's always a full lobby in TDA of people applying anyways.

MommyTo3Boys1Girl
07-24-2004, 08:29 AM
Better not take them anywhere in your car, don't let them eat food (they might choke and die!), don't let them take a bath or shower incase they drown or slip and fall, don't let them sleep in a bed incase they suffocate in the sheets, don't let them ride a bike incase they fall off and get hurt, never fly in an airplane, and most importantly NEVER *ever* let them have fun in life and take risks.

:rolleyes:

I didn't say that I wasn't going to take them on the ride because it isn't safe. I said I wasn't going to take them on the ride because they are to short! Are you "going after" the original poster in this, or me because it was directed to me?
My kids do all the things that you mentioned above, with the exception of riding a bike, my oldest is getting his first for his birthday and my youngest (although a daredevil) is to small for a bike.
I am not afraid of this ride, if it is open I will be on it when we go back in November. Accidents could happen on any of the rides.

MommyTo3Boys1Girl
07-24-2004, 08:35 AM
I think the whole problem with this is that people, myself included, looked at Disneyland as a safe place, a happy place, where nothing bad ever happens. Heck my best friend and I had a huge blow up right outside of Splash Mountain several years ago, over something stupid. We didn't talk for a couple years over it! (We were teens) It is not always the happiest place on earth, or the safest, or the cleanest, but it is what YOU as the guest, make of it. You can go there and feel the magic or you can feel the fear. I plan to feel the magic like I always have.
I think when you stop feeling the magic it is time to stop going!!!!!!!!

As far as being underpaid, I don't think that is an excuse for negligence. Just because someone doesn't make as much as they might make slinging burgers, which by the way In N Out is now in Arizona too, or greeting customers at Wal-Mart, they new that going in. They chose to work at DL, knowing what the wage was and knowing the responsibility they had, whether it be working a runaway mining train or stitching the correct name on someone's mouse ears. If the people they hired feel underpaid, they should work somewhere else. Why would someone stay in a job that they don't feel they are compensated for? I don't think that the operator who made the error was thinking, I don't get paid enough to make sure these trains don't collide and slacked off. I think he/she made a mistake. We ALL make mistakes! Find me someone who doesn't!

MommyTo3Boys1Girl
07-24-2004, 10:19 AM
Call it the needle that broke the camel's back. A very BIG needle. BTMRR is my favorite and a top-2 ride for my wife and daughter (along with the Matterhorn). For me, it's a ride I go on several times each day during our typical stay of 4-6 days.

I remember what it was like last summer with Space Mountain closed. More people in NOS, Frontierland and Adventureland. Add Fantasmic to the mix and it was a mess in the afternoon and evening.

So if BTMRR were to remain closed, a lot more people will migrate to NOS and Adventureland. They along with the Fantasmic "squatters" will clog up the best part of DL even further. I'd rather save up our funds for a time when DL is better prepared for a large summer crowd.

It is a straw that broke the camel's back. :D