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View Full Version : DL: More negative than positive! Why?



splashmtngurl
07-08-2004, 04:30 PM
is it just me or does it seem like latley there have been a lot more people, mainly APH but other guests as well, that have been complaining about DL and DCA? i know this topic has been spread pretty thin but i'm still confused. i am only 14 and i have had an AP my whole life and i'm still not sick of the park...infact i dont find alot to complain about. perhaps its because my view on the whole thing is just that its a growing, learning expierience for disney but...well....it just seems like people have been really upset with DL namely latley. Can any of you tell me why?

thanks,


Hayley

Forbin
07-08-2004, 04:48 PM
Yes and no...see if I remember right you are only 14 and maybe didn't remember all the bad decisions made a few years ago by the Current Staff.

Those same bad decisions are catching up with them 10 years later....this is why everyone is lamenting.

Alf
07-08-2004, 04:52 PM
14? ahhh the magic and the wonder... I am with you Splash, I am 23 and I still see more positives than negitive! perhaps its my love of ANY themeing..
:fez:

splashmtngurl
07-08-2004, 04:58 PM
:) i'm glad ur with me....and i dont remember all of the bad decisions made by disney but i can remember being dissapointed by a few. i wasnt THAT young. ;)

Alf
07-08-2004, 06:47 PM
I am just old enough to remember the People Movers and the Sub ride... they were awesome and its a shame they are gone, but DL still holds so much magic.. I'll keep going untill the only ride left is Storybook Land...at which point I'll stop because there is only so many times you can see a "gaint" duck napping in the middle of Agraba market. :fez:

splashmtngurl
07-08-2004, 06:57 PM
lol yeah it is a duck paradise there

disNeytEen
07-08-2004, 09:21 PM
Yes and no...see if I remember right you are only 14 and maybe didn't remember all the bad decisions made a few years ago by the Current Staff.

Those same bad decisions are catching up with them 10 years later....this is why everyone is lamenting.

who would of though if you take everything out of Tommorow Land and replace with a Club Buzz and the same films over in HWSTH and Star Tours that it would fail?? :rolleyes:

PapiBear
07-08-2004, 10:05 PM
Having grown up going to the Park every other year or even multiple times a year as a kid myself, and being just IN TOTAL AWE of the place and admiring the lucky people who got to work there (and later working there myself), I can tell you that the reason you hear so much grumbling and complaining is because - we remember when nobody could hold a candle to Disneyland in its awesomeness and fun factor, and unfortunately, those days are now just a memory. When the not-so-older folks start playing Grumpy about the current time and get wistful about the "good ol' days", chances are there's something to that sentiment. It's not that Disneyland still doesn't have that spark, that magic - it's that it had gobs and gobs of magic coming out of its mouse ears years ago, and for a lower price (always a good yardstick to measure entertainment value), compared to today. I was personally SHOCKED at myself one day in 1998, when I realized I was NOT having a good day at Disneyland, NOT enjoying myself, and disturbed and unhappy because of crowding and refurbishment barriers and overpriced food and so many classic attractions that were now gone, and I'd only worked at the Park 8 years earlier, and had last visited it in 1993 (during El Nino, when it rained - even a rainy day at Disneyland was fun!) and WDW in 1994! I realized then SOMEthing was really wrong, but I thought maybe it was just me. Nope. Thanks to sites like this one, my feelings were echoed in COUNTLESS stories from other Disneyland fans.

Going to Disneyland was once......like going to meet the President on your birthday, or seeing a movie with a famous star being filmed right on the street where you live, or going on a plane ride to Hawaii - it was something you'd savor and cherish every moment of, as much as you could, and a day you never wanted to end, and a place you NEVER, NEVER wanted to leave (even though you knew you had to). Now it's become like going to a mall, or going to ANY OTHER AMUSEMENT PARK. I don't recall many trips to Knott's Berry Farm very much, or to Magic Mountain. But I FONDLY recall my many trips to Disneyland. Heck, I wanted to just LIVE there! Why? Because they didn't just put me on a fast moving roller coaster and let me scream. They TOLD ME A STORY in the process. They ENTERTAINED me and also EDUCATED me. One memory I'll never forget was watching Mickey Mouse cartoons over and over at the now-defunct Fantasyland Theatre, which was FREE. Yeah, I could have stood in line to some other attraction that went fast or spun me around or whatever. But I didn't have to. There was no pressure for me to "get there and get on and hurry up", because I was there to simply have fun, and there wasn't the pressure to "maximize my entertainment dollars" by cramming as much "activity" into one set time period, because going to the Park was relatively inexpensive (even adjusted for inflation, Disneyland was much cheaper than it is today, and you got more in return for it). There wasn't this constant "do more! be bigger! be better! more more more! faster faster faster!" idea floating through the culture. The notion of Disneyland actually having to "compete" with other amusement parks was laughable to us, because no matter WHAT anyone else did, there was NO WAY they could top Disneyland. There was just NO WAY. Oh they might have fun stuff, but come on, you can't compete with the Happiest Place on Earth (and I really believed that that's what it was, a heaven on earth for families and hey, especially us kids!). The people who worked there, like the Monorail Pilots or the Jungle Cruise captains or the Canoe Guides, were looked up at with admiration, as if they were Air Force jet pilots who'd fought overseas or astronauts or something (I still recall thinking how cool it would be to grow up to be a Monorail Pilot - this was back when they sat up in the elevated bubble on the Mark III trains, which made them seem like fighter pilots a little bit).

But the Eisner regime has sullied the magic by pushing marketing and money concerns at us, over and above the fact that they inherited what is in many ways a holy place of fun (I know, weird concept, but that's kinda what Disneyland is to some of us - the Mecca of Mirth, the Jerusalem of Joy, the Bodh Gaya of Bright Smiles). I can't tell you how many times I'll hear a snippet of a nostalgic sound from the old Disneyland or read a listing of all that was good before, and I will ACTUALLY BE MOVED TO TEARS. Why do I cry? Because of what's been lost. Because of what we had before, that was so wonderful, and which is now gone, possibly forever.

If we didn't know in our heart of hearts that the way it was before was really honestly BETTER than it is now, we'd be able to still enjoy it, albeit with our more mature sensibilities, but finding the child within us and letting go and just having a ball. But unfortunately, they've TAKEN AWAY the things that would connect us to our past memories of Disneyland, the things we loved as kids that we had hoped one day to share with our kids or with our significant others or anyone else. We'd rest assured knowing that some things just never change, and thank God for it. That's why favorites like Pirates and Haunted Mansion and the Mark Twain and the Matterhorn and the Jungle Cruise and It's a Small World don't change (much), but it's also why you hear such moaning and groaning about Tomorrowland, about the Enchanted Tiki Room, about Tom Sawyer Island, and about a number of other, smaller things, things which may not have made a big impact but which were nice embellishments to the anchors and enriched the entire experience.

It's kinda like a mall, in a way. Sure, you have the anchor stores to bring in the majority of sales, but you also have the smaller stores in between the big ones. And some of us might like one little shop or another in addition to the big department stores, but if one day we go back and that little shop is gone, we miss it and wish it came back.

Why? Because we liked it! M-O-U-S-Eeeeeee.........

sambo
07-08-2004, 10:11 PM
PapiBear - that was eloquent! You captured the essence of the situation for sure... :crying:

Tigertail777
07-08-2004, 10:33 PM
I couldnt state it much better myself. I will add one more sentiment: its not just the attractions have changed, but the changes have no real thought put into them, and how they would actually work within the artistic confines of that particular theme. An example: the changing portraits in Haunted Mansion use to change with a flash of lightening (the very lightening you see in the windows across from them) it was very quick and breif and added to your sense of forboding, making you question if you really saw what you think you saw. It was the perfect set up to the story, and made sense in the area it was in because of the lightening windows, it reinforced the big lightening strike you hear at the end of the stretching room bringing together as a whole the idea that there is a big thunderstorm raging outside. It gave people a sort of "shock" to talk about while in line, it really was a surprise. The new morphing portraits, while cool, dont make as much sense thematically, and are really not a surprise they are just there really. This is one very small example of how they just are not thinking about what they change and how they do it, there are a lot of little things they have done this with that adds up to a big way of spoiling the intended ambience, and making the theme story less coherent.

splashmtngurl
07-09-2004, 09:21 AM
OMG first oof yall put that really well! i couldnt have said it any better myself. I didnt relize that so many things had been done to the park for all of these people. i didnt realize that in the past 14 years there hast been as much change (or that i can remember) as there was before that. sure i remember way back when tommorrow land was better. Heck i loved the rocket rods but because they had some difficulties disney forgot about them, closed them down, didnt want to spend the money on what could've been a major attraction. sure i got stuck in midair on that ride but still as a kid it was all fun and games for me. I dont really remember the subs but i have heard so many great stories about them that i really wish they were still there. the only reason i can see for removing them is that they werent as entertaining as they were before, they werent the high point of technology so they were simply, tossed away. Now, after reading your story, i can see where these people get their complaints. as for me, i am only 14 and the magic in DL is still there for me. when i walk into the park i dont see anything past the magic, wonder and awe i expierience. i have great memories there and i'm sure that i will grow to remember them as they were, as disneyland was. Ever since my first trip to dl, that i remember, i have wanted to work for disney and be an imagineer. my pastor at church used to work on the jungle cruise, he was my idol. The reason i was so interested is because i enjoy watching the smile on other peoples faces when they expierence the same magic, whether for the first time or the millionth time. But now, i realise that i want to work there more then ever, because i want to take part in helping to restore DL to what it was, what walt would have wanted it to be. I know i may not be able to make the biggest difference but i still want to help if i can. i realise that many attractions can never be brought back, but i suppose they can be replaced with something that will later create jujst as memerable expierience. Thank you for the insight on this argument, i really appreciate it. Now i can see the reason for grumbling now and then. thanks again, it really helped!

Hayley

Alf
07-09-2004, 10:02 AM
In my day there WAS no Disneyland... just a cup, two jelly beans, and a lengh of twine! And we LOVED it!


whipper snappers :geek:

Forbin
07-09-2004, 10:18 AM
Speaking of little shops..Remember when each Shop was separate on Main Street and there was this shop that sold Chocolate Grasshoppers? And I don't mean ones that are made up of peanuts...hehe

Very good post Papibear, I could not state it that well that's why I left it at my 2 line statement earlier.

sjcivilady
07-09-2004, 11:10 AM
14? ahhh the magic and the wonder... I am with you Splash, I am 23 and I still see more positives than negitive


---- I'm 52 and I still see more positives (athough I only go once a year or so). :)

Alf
07-09-2004, 11:20 AM
^ Now thats what I am talking about :fez:

C.B.
07-09-2004, 02:43 PM
Paging... Merlin Jones. Merlin Jones. ...Would Mr. Jones please post PapiBear's magnificent post on SaveDisney.com, for ALL to read and contemplate? Thank you. ;)

ZenMickey
07-09-2004, 06:28 PM
You have a very valid question, splashmtngurl, and I think it's cool that youre open to some great responses. There is no doubt that Disneyland is a very special place. I went countless times between 1968 and 1989. I have been going back on an annual basis for the last 3 years (moved out of state), but something keeps bringing me back to soak in the magic.

For some of us that have watched the park grow up, learn about it's history, sweat about the details; there has been some disappointment seeing maintenance neglected, attractions shut down with no replacements, merchandise looking very generic. Details were being ignored. I think what did it for me was the sad decline of Tomorrowland. What was once such a vibrant, colorful, entertaining, educational eye candy of place (with all the cool attractions: Space Mtn, America Sings and the Carousel of Progress, Adventure thru Innerspace, the Subs, the Monorail, Peopemover with the Tron tunnel, Circlevison, the phone booths, the Skyride!). I can't even stand to see what the land is now. It looks abandoned.

Well, with the new lighting scheme on Space Mtn, and the new track coming in, and with Buzz I'm sure we will see some improvements. I just wish someone would pubicly admit that someone screwed up big time with this "New Tomorrowland".

DCA still has some issues, but I will leave that to countless other threads.

But my list of what made me feel the magic on my last trip ( I tried to do only things I've never done before at DL) are:

The great nightime ride I got on Casey's train during the parade.
An awesome early morning ride on the Matterhorn.
A cool trip around the ROA on the Columbia, waving to everyone.
It's A Small World Holiday- it looked and sounded very clean.
Working the single line of Indiana Jones.
Pressing new pennies, quarters and nickles at the Penny Arcade (and teaching foreign tours how to do it!)
Haunted Mansion Holiday (I can do that ride over and over)

We can all see good and bad. And sometimes it is easy to criticize when you see something mismanaged. Let's all hope that some issues like ride maintenance are handled correctly (BTMR) and the 50th will bring a new vision.

splashmtngurl
07-09-2004, 07:05 PM
Thanks everyone for answering my question! it really helped me. I mean maybe its jsut cause i am a kid still but it seemed like there was a lot of complaining about nothing. But of course i cant remember DL being a whole lot different than it is now! but, thanks to papibears post (which should be mailed to Al Lutz @ miceage and used in a column ;) ) i now realise its just that i havent grown up with DL being so different. Thanks everyone for helping one very confused teenager.

And i showed the editor of my local kids (a magazine written by kids) magazine all of this stuff and he asked to me write an article on the subject. He said if it was good enough that he would send it in to the Disney Magazine and see if they could use it. I hope you dont mind if i use some of your quotes, i will put your name in if you want me to, just let me know. I will post the article on here when i am finished so that you can look at it before i give it to my editor, see what you think. the article is supposed to be about the two sides to the argument, we'll see how it turns out.

Thanks sooooooo much for helping me understand, i feel way less confused about the whole thing. If you have any objections to my using a quote of yours,be sure to let me know so i dont accidently use one. Thanks again,

Hayley

Tigertail777
07-10-2004, 08:25 AM
One more thing to add to help you understand the old Disneyland. As papibear said it wasnt all about the biggest, fastest or greatest. Little things were constantly added to each themed area that were just little fun things to do or see. For example, Pirates used to have a little arcade off to the side exit of the ride. Inside there were a bunch of great little pirate themed games and machines, where for a mere quarter you could further be immersed in the pirate world. There was a silly dancing puppet pirate that you could control, there was a shooting pirate themed game, there was a cool machine that you could put your name onto the backside of a metal doubloon reproduction (still at Disneyland in the pieces of eight shop, but rarely works). There was also the fortune red machine (also in pieces of eight, works pretty decent), and a themed machine where you could buy a pack of pirate postcards (for I think? 75 cents). All of these machines were in this little dimly lit pirate themed room. Nothing cost too much, but the dim memories I have of it, it was loads of fun. The entire park had little things like this all over the place there was something in every nook and cranny to see or do. The over all feeling presented was that you were not just a customer, you were a very special guest and should be treated as such. The main idea seemed to be that they were not really after your money, they wanted instead your happiness and satisfaction, and as a natural consequence the money would then follow.

And, things were not sky-high prices either almost everything was pretty reasonable. The cheapest souvineer was always postcards you could get them at 5 for a dollar, Walt purposely made the postcards cheap because he knew they were great advertising (they were much cheaper before my childhood LOL). Food was slightly expensive, but not INSANE as it is now. Shopping was a lot more fun: almost every shop carried unique merchandise that was themed to the particular area it was in. In fact there used to be a "one of a kind shop" where no two things in the store were the same. The shops actually ADDED to the theming of each land and complimented it. Its still that way to a certain degree in some shops (such as Adventureland Mercantile) but not anywhere near to the degree it used to be. Disneyland used to just OOZE with all kinds of magical little details everywhere, everything was always new looking, rarely would you find chipped paint at all, the flowerbeds and topiary were wonderful and always well kept up. The place just simply sparkled it looked brand new all the time it was rare to have even the little games broken down for very long. Disney absolutley prided itself on its upkeep and in fact became world famous for it, countless magazines and news articles constantly told how Disney had a crew that would paint every single night to make sure things stayed fresh looking. Thats just the paint, no way on Gods green earth would a closed down ride be left standing around until it fell apart like the subs and others have been.. there is NO WAY they would even consider letting something like that happen.

OK well I could go on and on but I hope that helps you understand things just a little bit better. Disneyland was beyond special it truly was MAGICAL.

sediment
07-10-2004, 11:52 AM
We want it better. Because it's not, we complain. Because we've seen that it's possible to be better, we complain. Because we've seen what less limited funds can create with the help of Imagineering, we complain.
It's not as if we're asking for the impossible.

Of course, if some of us didn't pay less now (per admission) than we did twenty years ago, we'd have better grounds for our complaints.