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LAsptsfan3
06-15-2004, 03:03 PM
Go easy on me, its only my like 4th post or something. lol ;)

Im concerned though, is enough being done to ensure the safety of the parks day in and day out? Honestly, i think not. When you walk up to the tents where they check you into the 'secure' area, i dont get the feeling that theres any real inspection going on, some of the time people just walk right on through, no questions asked. I know that in the parks theres security in plainclothes, and i know that you see the uniformed disney p.d. walking around, but i dont think its enough. Metal Detectors are the answer. Hassle? Yes. Big Hassle. However, i think if they put in metal detectors and actually checked the people they wouldnt have to spend SOOO much on the plainclothes as it would be much more secure to begin with. For those of you that have been to Staples Center, the metal detectors require a big staff, but you know taht once your inside, theres nothing thats gonna happen that couldnt ahve been stopped at the gates.

this post isnt mean to scare anybody, i just love disneyland so much, and as it is such a symbol of american capitalism, i dont ever wanna see anything bad happen to it.

see you at the parks

jrad32
06-15-2004, 03:22 PM
Metal detectors aren't the answer. No matter how much security there is you can't stop everything. You're not going to stop someone who is willing to sacrafice their own life to kill others.

There are millions of ways that DL could be attacked by terrorists and no way to protect against them all that is just the way it is. So go and have a good time and don't worry, because there is no sense in worrying about something you can't control.

Merm8fan
06-15-2004, 03:56 PM
Personally, I'm not sure why they bother with the security check as it is. When I go, I usually take 4-7 of my nieces and nephews with me, and with at least two strollers full of stuff, I can tell you the checks are not very thorough and seem to be following the letter of the "law" rather than the intent. To be honest, I think the check is overkill and wish they would do away with the whole thing.

I think Disney hopes that just knowing there IS a security check will dissuade any troublemakers, because it certainly won't stop anyone serious.

So, to circle back to the thread... I certainly hope they do not install additional security measures at the gates or entry plaza. I feel that there is plenty of security already in place, and I'm sure all of us die-hards would jump in and do our part if we saw anything suspicious going on! :)

Pirate Girl
06-15-2004, 04:06 PM
Aren't the plainclothes security personelle more for stopping shoplifting than inspections?

Opus1guy
06-15-2004, 04:07 PM
Metal detectors aren't the answer. No matter how much security there is you can't stop everything. You're not going to stop someone who is willing to sacrafice their own life to kill others.

There are millions of ways that DL could be attacked by terrorists and no way to protect against them all that is just the way it is. So go and have a good time and don't worry, because there is no sense in worrying about something you can't control.

Right!

And sometimes the security "solutions" create even more opportunities for terrorists! How? Well one thing is a question that too many don't consider..."Where do you have your security?"

Immediately after 9/11, I was rushed in to give design advise for security checkpoints for the Rose Bowl. They had like 6 locations around the bowl. I did a quick flow-control analysis and determined the flow and length (distance and time) etc of lines/crowds being slowed down as they approached the security checkpoint.

They looked at the wait times curves and numbers and said "That's acceptable."

But they were only thinking about acceptable waits and stopping a bomb or weapon from getting into the Bowl. Into the bleachers.

I said, "You do realize that by creating a "crowd" or "line" or whatever at the security checkpoint, that the security checkpoint itself becomes an attractive target?"

You want the boom to go off wherever a large group congregates. And what would be more attractive than a large crowd created by the security checkpoint itself?

"Congregation From Constipation" is what I call it.

So where do you check for weapons? How far "out?" How far apart? How many stations can you afford in order to make lots of smaller lines that spread out the risk and reduce the casualties if a bang does occur?

And what happens if you find a big black Boris cartoon bomb with a lit fuse? And the guy bringing it in has a weapon and can easily pop the few security guys and sprint for and through the gate?

How much of that security checkpoint is solely a BS sales tool to make the Guests feel they are safe? Is it just a minimum CYA precaution to avoid charges of negligence if something does go bang?

Is it any kind of real security procedure that would stop a would-be terrorist?

Of course not.

A determined terrorist or group of terrorists could simply wear their materials into the park and reassemble it in some crapper somewhere. Jacket linings. Fill a stuffed Mickey Mouse. Jeez. Piece of cake, unfortunately. Not to mention almost unlimited backdoor opportunities.


So go and have a good time and don't worry, because there is no sense in worrying about something you can't control.

Yup. That's pretty much my advise too.

And keep in mind the words of Woody Allen:

"I'm not afraid of death. I just don't want to be around when it happens."

;)

tod
06-15-2004, 04:13 PM
Is security tough enough?

Yes and no.

It can certainly deter the troublemaker, the hell-raiser, the kid on a dare. It won't, can't stop the wackjob with enough determination to kill himself and take a bunch of people with him. (Or herself, although terrorism seems to be the exclusive province of men so far as I have seen.) Such people can't be stopped, it's impossible. The only thing you can do is try to minimize the damage they cause.

Bag checks will deter the casual troublemaker. Let's hope that's as bad as it ever gets.

--t

RagtimePrince
06-15-2004, 06:09 PM
I go to Paramount's Great America a lot, which has metal detectors and is pretty thorough. The thing is, on open days the park gets about as many guests as DCA alone, and a lot of younger folks from lovely places such as east Oakland come in, and I've seen a few violent incidents where security is much better off and has much more control knowing that they don't have anything metal with them.

I have yet to see any gangs at Disney, therefore, I don't think that extra extremely time-consuming level of checking is at all necessary.

Emma
06-15-2004, 07:18 PM
I think that Disney's security is okay. They always check my purse, they have checked my husband's coat pockets before, when he was carrying his jacket.

Metal detectors seem like a bit much... It would be like waiting in line for airport security just to get into the park! That could take forever!

I think Disney does as good a job as can be expected. They don't do anything more than Disney does when I go to Safeco Field, or Seahawks Stadium, or the Space Needle, all places that are just as likely to be terrorist targets.

I think Disney does a pretty good job keeping us safe.

David R
06-15-2004, 07:56 PM
They need a no bags line.

Niwel
06-15-2004, 08:10 PM
It depends on who you get. Some checkers are much more thorough than others. I feel very safe in Disneyland. I'm sure they must have some "profiling." i.e. if someone comes alone to the park with a backpack and no smile or any Disney anything on ... they will probably be watched.
There are plain-clothed security people around the park, as well as costumed ones. Plus, any idiot dumb enough to try anything will get their head bashed in by a mob of angry APs.
Don't mess with my mouse. :)

Emma
06-15-2004, 08:28 PM
Does anybody know if Disney does that? Do they search some people more vigorously than others? Do they have some sort of "profiling" that they use?

The reason I ask, is I have seen them checking out some people a lot more thoroughly than others... a lot of times, families with babies, and strollers, etc. It seems like it's more random, like at the airport.

disney_j
06-15-2004, 08:30 PM
Well, I've posted this before on other boards, i think here, but anyone who went to Disneyland in mid-march 2003 got the rare occurance of US Army helicopters circling over Disneyland. I have one pic somewhere of the helicopter right over the castle, i should see if i can get that. But, it breaks the fantasy your in when you hear a helicopter flying overhead, but then i remembered that i'd much rather be safe then sorry.

Biscuit
06-16-2004, 02:14 PM
Well, I've posted this before on other boards, i think here, but anyone who went to Disneyland in mid-march 2003 got the rare occurance of US Army helicopters circling over Disneyland. I have one pic somewhere of the helicopter right over the castle, i should see if i can get that. But, it breaks the fantasy your in when you hear a helicopter flying overhead, but then i remembered that i'd much rather be safe then sorry.

I was there at the time you describe, and I don't remember hearing or seeing helicopters. In fact, I arrived at Disney the day the war broke out in Iraq, and I remember feeling so safe and happy in Disney, I didn't give a flying fig.

Another thing I find interesting here is that this discussion is still correlating Iraq with terrorism...hasn't it just been proved that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11? Let's be realisitic - why has Disney put more security measures in place, long AFTER March 2003 (coz they weren't in place when I was there)? Not because of Iraq, that's for sure. It's because the govt wants to give you something to hate/focus on, rather than focus on what's going on inside the govt (economy, screw ups, etc etc)

In all honesty - and I guess it's easy enough for me saying this coming from a safe country - the concerns about security I actually find quite amusing. Has anyone seen Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine"? Though the issue is different, his comments can be expressed towards your security concerns - you need an enemy, something to fear, to feel justified.

Disney may be an example of western capitalism, but what's a better target in those terrorists' eyes? Mickey Mouse, or the guy acting like him who runs the country? ;)

I would say that Disney would be way down the list of mass grouping target, if at all. It even seems ridiculous to consider Disney as a threat - who says it's a threat, the higher ups? What evidence do they have?

Why let fear rule your life? The only thing you have to fear at Disney is grizzly kids, the weather, and your sore feet.

Forbin
06-16-2004, 03:04 PM
Hehe without getting into the Political Government portion of it.

Security is security. Just how much are you ready to pay to get into Disneyland.

Full security , no bombs or weapons or ANYTHING.

Please form line on the left, tickets are $200 a piece, and you have to REMOVE everything and wear this ORANGE form fitting jumper inside of Disneyland. You cannot bring in anything except for an ID and a Credit Card. No snacks, milk or cola. If your baby needs a drink either feed them the natural way or buy a Milk in the park for $10/bottle. Now that's secure.

I'm not very happy (But I'm still happy) with the current security but asking for more than what they are currently doing is just ridiculous. They are there to keep you happy. That's about it. More security means you are less happy. That's not the Disney way.

Merm8fan
06-16-2004, 03:11 PM
Please form line on the left, tickets are $200 a piece, and you have to REMOVE everything and wear this ORANGE form fitting jumper inside of Disneyland.


Awwww, does it HAVE to be orange? ;)

Biscuit
06-16-2004, 03:27 PM
Please form line on the left, tickets are $200 a piece, and you have to REMOVE everything and wear this ORANGE form fitting jumper inside of Disneyland.

Big Brother LIVES! ;)

That's exactly it Forbin. Disney (and other "lesser targets" ;) ) are conforming to current commonly help norms about "security". They're really not needed, but society of today see you as neglegent if you don't do anything...even when it's not neccessarily needed.

AliciasMom
06-16-2004, 03:34 PM
This is my first post, Yay!

We went to Disneyland last week. I gave the bag searcher a good laugh. She was searching my daughter's diaper bag and stumbled upon my "personal products." Since she was stating out loud what she was seeing like "Bottles, formula, toy, diaper... mommy stuff." I then replied "You might want to take those because most men consider those more evil than WMD's." She replied "Tell me about it."

I don't mind the security search. I personally feel that it won't do much if someone was really determined to do something horrible, but at least they aren't making us take off our shoes!

Lani
06-16-2004, 03:57 PM
Go easy on me, its only my like 4th post or something. lol ;)Welcome LAsptsfan3 -- I'm assuming by your name that you are disappointed that the Lakers lost? Sorry! But glad you're here. :)
Metal Detectors are the answer.Walt Disney World in Florida has been testing metal detectors in the past few months. We reported on this in a previous WDW park update (http://www.mouseplanet.com/parkupdates/wdw/wdw040419.htm#NewsAndViews).

Opus1guy -- I don't know what you do, but your job sounds intriguing, to say the least!
They need a no bags line.They sure do. WDW has them. DL should, too. Even if it means I cram everything into my pockets and stick my pocket-sized purse in the back of my jeans so it looks like it's just a big wallet. :D

Disney may be an example of western capitalism, but what's a better target in those terrorists' eyes? Mickey Mouse, or the guy acting like him who runs the country?

I would say that Disney would be way down the list of mass grouping target, if at all. It even seems ridiculous to consider Disney as a threat - who says it's a threat, the higher ups? What evidence do they have?Actually, I don't quite agree. The purpose of terrorism is to invoke fear in ordinary civilians. The President is always considered a moving target. That's why he's got the most amount of security protection of any individual in this country. But just like the World Trade Center was thought to be a symbol of American capitalism, I think Disneyland is a symbol of the American Dream and American lifestyle. Can you imagine all the hearts that would break if a terrorist were to blow up Sleeping Beauty Castle or something terrible? Americans would no longer feel safe visiting the theme parks. I think it would be devastating (and unfortunately, devastatingly effective).

This is my first post, Yay!
Welcome, AliciasMom! Glad to see you here. :)

Biscuit
06-16-2004, 07:16 PM
But just like the World Trade Center was thought to be a symbol of American capitalism, I think Disneyland is a symbol of the American Dream and American lifestyle.

Please avert your eyes if you think I'm a harsh talker :)

This may sound incredibly trite, but fancy some Al Queida dude trying to explain to his kid he just blew up Mickey Mouse. They may have hate for capitalism, but even they are human, and I'd imagine for anyone it would be hard to destroy something from your childhood.

As truly nightmarish as 9/11 was, it makes more sense to blow up a building like the WTC, than it would Disneyland. A figurehead building like the WTC is directly linked to the nations economy, whereas Disney is only one small part of the economy.

MommyTo3Boys1Girl
06-17-2004, 02:41 PM
If we are talking terrorists, does anyone recall that the airports that the terrorists boarded the airplanes that were hijacked on 9-11 had metal detectors. NOTHING CAN STOP A TERRORIST!

LAsptsfan3
06-17-2004, 03:11 PM
If we are talking terrorists, does anyone recall that the airports that the terrorists boarded the airplanes that were hijacked on 9-11 had metal detectors. NOTHING CAN STOP A TERRORIST!

unfortunately, that was before we knew that terrorists could hijack planes with boxcutters etc. i honestly believe that metal detectors are a good solution. can you prevent somebody willing to take their own life in order to hurt others? no. but you can make sure that once the security gate is passed, nobody will have anything on them able to cause serious injury to many people. are metal detectors going to stop everything? no. any system is prone to its faults. i just think that we need more protection than is already in place at the parks.

and yes i am still depressed the lakers lost.

see you at the parks

sediment
06-17-2004, 03:47 PM
In a private theme park situation, DIS should go with profiling.

Especially checking people who look as if they're not planning to have a happy time. I don't care if they're not terrorists. They shouldn't be allowed in. Principles.

MommyTo3Boys1Girl
06-18-2004, 10:51 PM
Did we really not think planes could be hijacked with boxcutters, or is it possible that someone never thought that they would be hijacked to do what they did?
And to think 9-11 was just an isolated incident is silly. Airport security is not any better now than it was before 9-11. Sure your checked bags are screened for bombs etc, but the problems aren't the bombs. Sorry I am getting off topic, somewhat, my husband is a commercial airline pilot.
I worry that DL could be a target of a terrorist attack, similar to what happened on 9-11. I think there should be more security measures in place, I am just not sure what they could be.

sighlent faeri
06-19-2004, 12:19 AM
we went to disneyland in july 2003, and i believe they had a terrorist threat on one of the days we were visiting. the security seemed to be checking EVERYTHING even the least bit suspisious looking in the park. they were even looking at a little white pipe-line type thing sticking out of the dirt in frontierland.

Anthony
06-19-2004, 05:56 AM
The fact that there is so much energy being placed on this indicates that the terrorists are getting what they want already; they are instilling fear and terror. The fact is, the best prevention to any violence is awareness. I see dozens of posts here about a fleck of paint not in the correct space, and people having a meltdown as a result. How bout we use our powers for good, not evil and use our 'anal-retentive super vision' to be aware of our surroundings and potential threats, not just dulling paint and churro taste tests?

Another paradigm is that we want to be safe, but any security measures annoy us, and we will complain about it. Everyone will never be pleased. Some people dislike security checkpoints, some people would prefer complete body scanning... Also, profiling is ineffective because there is not one type of threat or profile. If I know that purple people are terrorists, so I am on the lookout for them, it won't help when a green person gets right past security, who had been recruited by terrorists to carry out a plot.

Someone said it exactly right. DLR has the biggest security force on the planet- Loyal Disney Fans. God help the person that gets out of line, attempts to do some harm, etc. Keep your eyes open, get involved, etc.

The ride you save, may be your own.