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Germboy
05-21-2004, 03:50 AM
I have been a Premium Annual Passholder at Disneyland for almost ten years. I have lived roughly 5 miles from Disneyland from the time I was born. My first visit was when I was a few months old, in 1971.

I have watched Disneyland decline to where it is a shadow of its former self.

I have seen Michael Eisner spit in the face of Roy Disney.

With the Disneyland 50th anniversary announcement, a new low has been reached for Walt's original park. As has been widely reported in the media, Disneyland is the ugly stepchild, while all of the other parks celebrate and the corporation rakes in profits. The 50th anniversary at Disneyland is apparently being squandered at the park itself.

My question is: If I volunteered to not renew my DL AP, how many would follow my example and give up a renewal for a year? Perhaps we could register our names with Roy Disney's website and create a sort of online affidavit.

Is anyone interested in making such a statement? I'm sure it would help Roy immensely, send a message to Eisner and the board, and allow some of us to vent our frustrations in a manner in which management would understand.

I admit that I cannot do this alone...and you would be able to enjoy your current AP until it expires. Just don't renew.

What are your opinions?

iwannabeanimagineer
05-21-2004, 06:21 AM
What are your opinions?
I'm not saying that taking this action is either right or wrong, but I believe that, if significant numbers of people follow this proposed course of action, there will be unintended consequences. One possible consequence might be that the Disney Company begins to believe that capital spent on improvements (such as the Main Street refurbishment), major enhancements (such as the Tower of Terror) and entertainment (such as the 50th Anniversary projects) will not enhance revenues sufficiently to produce an acceptable return-on-investment. In other words, they may shy away from spending more money on the Disneyland Resort if people don't appreciate it. I'm not saying it's a certainty nor am I saying that it's the only possible consequence. It's just one thing to take into consideration when making decisions.

Another thing to consider: I participate frequently in consumer surveys. One of the questions frequently asked is along the lines of, "Have you ever participated in a boycott or otherwise changed your spending and consuming habits as part of a group action or in order to send some kind of 'message' to a company?" This indicates to me that many companies "factor in" consumer activism in their decision-making. Some of these companies may adjust their data accordingly so that it reflects how people would or would not spend their money if they weren't participating in a boycott or other consumer activism.

My advice for people who care about the condition of Disneyland and who believe it is being neglected: Write letters and talk to your friends and encourage them to write letters. If you are an AP-holder, mention that in your letter. If you are a stockholder, mention that in your letter. If Disney's management is smart, they'll get the messages in the letters and the messages in their data. If they're not smart, there's nothing we can do to help them. However, Disney's owners are smart. If they see poor management, it will get fixed. But the owners are numerous and busy doing other things. So it will take time, so I urge patience and a positive outlook. It will move about as fast as political and social change in the U.S.

ppmuse
05-21-2004, 07:19 AM
While I am saddened at the state of Disneyland, and that the big celebration seems to be at the other parks, I will be getting my first Annual pass in October. Why? My son will be born within the month, and in October we're going to take him for the first time. I won't trade memories of him at the park for the hope of making the park better. There are too many people out there that go to Disneyland a dozen times a month that won't do this. I don't see it changing anything. I haven't been since they started beautifying everything, but I won't start complaining until July of next year. Give them a chance to put that smile on my son's face when he's a year old. For me, that's the true magic of Disneyland.

mamabot
05-21-2004, 07:24 AM
Giving up my AP would not be an option at this point.

It would take a mass boycott to make any sort of impact on TDA. You would have to convince at least a large portion of the 500,000+ AP holders to join you. Not likely to happen.

Not Afraid
05-21-2004, 07:55 AM
Nope. I like my AP and my socila like on and off Disney property. Yes, the company and the park has seen better days, but I am selfish. Giving up my AP would be letting Eisner win and I'm not going to do that.

Cadaverous Pallor
05-21-2004, 08:01 AM
Sorry Germboy. I have too much fun at Disneyland to give it up. I appreciate what you are trying to do, but it's not the right answer for me.

Cloud Buster
05-21-2004, 08:35 AM
Such a statement would mean something, but with the massive amount of APs -- over half a million -- I don't think you'd be able to rally more than a small fraction of a percent. Not enough to be seen as a statement, just enough to think that people couldn't afford them anymore.

Keep in mind, that every year there are NEW APers as well. This year will be no exception, despite increasing prices.

Grumpy4
05-21-2004, 08:47 AM
As I appreciate the enthusiasm, I can't part with my AP. Diz is a sanctuary for me and I'm sure for many others. Sometimes you just need a place where you can get away and have fun. Diz is that place for me. I think a lot of people don't want to give up their passes because the 50th celebration is next year, and a lot of people want to show support to Walt and his creation. It is sad how Eisner has found people to run the park into the ground and made Disneyland the red-headed stepchild. This is the park that started it all and should be given most attention. Without Disneyland, there would be no WDW, Paris, Tokyo, or Hong Kong. Iwannabeanimagineer is right, it may discourage the company to not spend the money for the future. Again, kudos to you and your enthusiasm.

millionairegirl
05-21-2004, 09:13 AM
I have seen Michael Eisner spit in the face of Roy Disney.

...

My question is: If I volunteered to not renew my DL AP, how many would follow my example and give up a renewal for a year? Perhaps we could register our names with Roy Disney's website and create a sort of online affidavit.



Have you REALLY seen Michael Eisner spit at Roy Disney, or are you just talking figuratively? :rolleyes:

No interest in a boycott. I think the best way to support Disneyland and DCA is to spend your money there.

sediment
05-21-2004, 09:19 AM
It would be easier if DIS assisted you in your boycott by:
1. Raising the price so that fewer people renew, due to economic forces alone. AND simultaneously lower the single day prices.
2. Further downgrading the DL experience so that it's just not worth it to have an AP, or even to go at all. (I don't find this a viable option, since it would lower repeated visits by vacationers.)
3. Just stop selling them.

I think you will be better off without your AP. You have decided that the product is not worth the price. Fine. Join the other 9.5 million SoCal residents who choose not to buy an AP. (Wow, that boycott thing really works!)
I don't think you can convince anyone not to buy an AP when he's already made this decision in the past to buy one. You can only try to convince them that the product has changed. Only noticeable changes in the inputs to the decision process (price, product quality, individual economic status, etc.) will make someone decide not to renew. Your call for a boycott is not a relevant piece of information in the decision process.

Forbin
05-21-2004, 09:40 AM
I have seen Michael Eisner spit in the face of Roy Disney.

Really? When did this happen. I myself have seen Eisner do things that would probably make Walt turn over in his frozen grave but I don't remember Eisner spitting in Roy Disney's face.

But I'm sure you were making a sarcastic response to all the stuff going around Disney management atm.

Back to the subject: Your boycott won't work. Why? It's like the gas protest. We protest the high prices but we still buy them. We protest Eisner but we did NOT buy AP's to Disneyland because of him. We did it because we LOVE Disneyland (And maybe a few people like DCA.. :) ) . Period.

I might or might not renew my AP passport. But not because of Eisner or because of Roy Disney, it just might be that my child is growing up and might decide that her friends are more important to hang out with on weekends instead of her parents. Ah...life.

Ferris
05-21-2004, 10:37 AM
I had been an AP for 8 years straight, and in February I decided NOT to renew my PAP for the first time. I agree that it is nearly impossibly to get enough people to sacrifice their AP's so that TDA would actually take notice, and I never really thought of what I was doing as a boycott (but you are welcome to count me into your cause if it helps Germboy :) ). I basically decided that I was going to wait until most of the closures and rennovations were done before I renewed. Then I found out that SM wasn't going to be ready for the 50th in July :crying: And then they raised the price of the PAP :mad: :mad: So now I am waiting until November or December to purchase again. In the mean time, I will let them catch up on over 8 years of neglect and decay, and I will have to scale back the visits and purchase *cringe* a day pass. :(

cstephens
05-21-2004, 10:55 AM
My question is: If I volunteered to not renew my DL AP, how many would follow my example and give up a renewal for a year?

Not here. I like having my AP, I still have a great time at the resort, and I still think the AP is well worth what I pay for it.

But if you don't feel the same way, if you're unhappy with how things are done, why don't you just give up your AP anyway? Why would you only do it if others joined you? No, your giving up your AP isn't going to make an impact on the company at all, but I would think you'd want to do it for your own personal satisfaction. If I was paying money for something I didn't like and didn't feel was worth it, I'd just stop doing it and find something else to do and something else to spend my money on.

Germboy
05-21-2004, 11:00 AM
Thank you Ferris. I almost cried after reading some of those responses.

Zigen
05-21-2004, 04:58 PM
I think the best way to boycott is to buy an AP, spend lots of money at DTD and not go into DLR. All AP'ers should just stand on the outside of DLR and do jumping jacks. That'll teach them at the top that we're not going to take it! (then i get all the rides to myself... yay!)

Germboy
05-22-2004, 12:35 AM
But if you don't feel the same way, if you're unhappy with how things are done, why don't you just give up your AP anyway? Why would you only do it if others joined you? No, your giving up your AP isn't going to make an impact on the company at all, but I would think you'd want to do it for your own personal satisfaction. If I was paying money for something I didn't like and didn't feel was worth it, I'd just stop doing it and find something else to do and something else to spend my money on.

Maybe I wasn't clear. The idea to give up my AP is to make a statement. I never said that I would only do it if others joined me. And my gesture is an attempt to IMPROVE everyone's experience at the park, not to detract from it. But I understand, as you apparently do, that me "giving up my AP isn't going to make an impact on the company at all", that's why I suggested doing it en masse...so I guess I'm not sure I understand your question.

How is giving up my AP going to give me "personal satisfaction?" Disneyland is not just something I do to "spend my money on." Disneyland has always been a very important part of my life. Just like Ppmuse said, he is getting an AP for the sake of taking his young son. Why? Because Disneyland is an American Icon and, until very recently, has been UNRIVALED in its unique ability to wow, its ability to maintain constant quality, and its unparalleled ability to understand exactly what it was that made IT different than any other park around. I don't look at it as a cash register (as management seems to), nor do I look at it as "something to do" as others might.

My parents took me when I was a month old, and I've been going every year since. When I learned of the AP, I was excited to know that I could go all the time. I was never happier--that is, until the park and the company took a detour and started going down a different path. I only feel bad that ppmuse's son won't know the Disneyland I knew when I grew up. By the time his son grows up, I hope his son sees the reason why Disneyland is different than any other park. With its image being cheapened and tarnished and so many of the company's assets being sold for short-term gain, I have serious concerns that it (and the company) will never return to its glory days. And that, to me, is a tragedy. So many people are overjoyed that all of this painting and rehab is getting done-- yeah yeah yeah I'm questioning why it wasn't done all along!! That's Disney for crying out loud...Disney has a REPUTATION for that. That's why they are Disney.

Your suggestion to "stop doing it" is akin to packing up and moving out of the country because I don't like the government. I have no desire to run from issues. I try to face them in the only way I know how (in this case, through market forces...nothing else has worked up to now.)

And no, Eisner didn't literally "spit" in Roy Disney's face. That was my polite, clean way of saying what I really think. I think Roy Disney's wife said that Roy "looked like he was punched in the gut." No matter how it is said, it was horrible. And all this to a guy whose hope is to maintain what made Disney great.

GoldenEars
05-22-2004, 12:59 AM
Hey GermBoy...

I applaude your desire and spirit to make a bold statement, but I'm with the others on this and believe it wouldn't go over. And on a more selfish note, I personally could not give up my annual pass. I've had one since 1987 (minus the 3 years I worked for Disneyland), and find it a place to just get away and have some fun. With all the issues going on at the Park (DCA too), I still find plenty of reasons to visit and enjoy myself. Because no matter how much *bad* there is, there's still a lot of good to find if you just focus on that!

Don't get me wrong, I still believe we need to pay attention to the *bad* too and make sure things are taken care of. I just don't think giving up our AP's is the correct way to go about it.

And hopefully Michael Eisner will realize he's a joke and needs to move on!

Patrick

BTT
05-22-2004, 02:20 AM
Not to go bandwagon-jumping, but refusing to renew an annual passport is akin to organizing a one-day gas boycott...their economic models have to take into account attrition of some AP holders and the gaining of new AP holders.

Odd as it sounds, in order to accomplish what you'd like to accomplish, it seems you're most effective course of action may be to become a shareholder. You would have a more direct impact on the company, and more immediate as well.

Ben T.

KeithOfTerror
05-22-2004, 06:45 AM
As I read these posts I died a little inside. You wanna know why? Because I remember when Disney wasn't about stocks and cashflow and shareholding. It was about the magic. Corporations do big business and screw the little people over, that's their job. But if we lose sight of what makes Disney so great and focus only on Michael Eisner's evil empire-and believe me, I HATE Eisner as much as the rest of you. One of my death threats was too much for this board to handle.-then we might as well stop going to DL altogether. I'm gonna buy my AP, I'm gonna go every week, and I'm gonna enjoy the simple pleasures stock holders can't destroy-riding on the DLR through Splash Mountain, walking the cold and lonely trail from Big Thunder to Fantaasyland late at night, and all the other little elements that elevate Disneyland above all other theme parks, and I advise you all to do the same.

Woo, I have vented.

Cadaverous Pallor
05-22-2004, 03:56 PM
Thank you Ferris. I almost cried after reading some of those responses.Hmmm....so me continuing to enjoy a ride on the Matterhorn or watching Alice and the Hatter meet 'n greet or drinking hot chocolate while watching fireworks makes you almost cry.

Germboy
05-22-2004, 05:27 PM
Hmmm....so me continuing to enjoy a ride on the Matterhorn or watching Alice and the Hatter meet 'n greet or drinking hot chocolate while watching fireworks makes you almost cry.

Where did you get that?

I started this thread to explore how much support I would get for such an action. There was none. Maybe you want to laugh at that, but I felt pretty deflated.

It saddens me to have someone suggest "If you don't like it, why don't you just quit?" And liberal doses of sarcasm only make me feel worse.

Enjoy your hot chocolate! I promise I won't cry!! :)

cstephens
05-23-2004, 08:21 AM
Maybe I wasn't clear. The idea to give up my AP is to make a statement. I never said that I would only do it if others joined me.

So are you going to in fact make that statement and go through with not renewing your AP even though not many others have chosen to join you?

cryan71
05-23-2004, 09:49 AM
I didn't renew my pass cause I knew that this year was going to be a repair and fix up year in anticipation of the 50th. I am going to buy a new pass after May 7th 2005.

Germboy
05-23-2004, 09:51 AM
So are you going to in fact make that statement and go through with not renewing your AP even though not many others have chosen to join you?

If you re-read post #16, particularly the fourth paragraph, you'll find the answer to your question, in fact.

Germboy
05-23-2004, 10:01 AM
Not to go bandwagon-jumping, but refusing to renew an annual passport is akin to organizing a one-day gas boycott...their economic models have to take into account attrition of some AP holders and the gaining of new AP holders.
Odd as it sounds, in order to accomplish what you'd like to accomplish, it seems you're most effective course of action may be to become a shareholder. You would have a more direct impact on the company, and more immediate as well.Ben T.

I know you're right, BTT. What's sad, is that the shareholders themselves are being ignored at this point. The company just charges ahead full steam.

Speaking of gas (off topic), do you realize that our status in Iraq effectively makes us a de facto member of OPEC until June 30th? We have more clout with OPEC than any time during its existence, and prices are higher than ever.

It's so difficult to change anything with your own wallet. A couple dollars in a sea of billions.