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Towmod
05-14-2004, 07:58 AM
is it? Is it a child of Disneyland? Or is it modeled after amusement parks up and down the coast of California? Seems to me that the park has an identity crisis. If DCA is supposed to compete with parks at Knotts and SFMM, then why does it do it half way? I has a mixture of Disneyland type rides and a smattering of white knuckle rides. Why does Disney create a park that is too similar to Disneyland and then expect it to compete with the master park? Should not DCA be quickly converted into a Knotts or SFMM type park ride and make it an alternative style park to Disneyland?

Pat-n-Eil
05-14-2004, 08:06 AM
is it? Is it a child of Disneyland? Or is it modeled after amusement parks up and down the coast of California? Seems to me that the park has an identity crisis. If DCA is supposed to compete with parks at Knotts and SFMM, then why does it do it half way? I has a mixture of Disneyland type rides and a smattering of white knuckle rides. Why does Disney create a park that is too similar to Disneyland and then expect it to compete with the master park? Should not DCA be quickly converted into a Knotts or SFMM type park ride and make it an alternative style park to Disneyland?

This post is a prime example of what I've been saying for months. People have to pigeonhole and categorize to the point of anal retention. DCA is what it is. There is no way they could have possibly built a park with Disney in its name and not include some "Disneyland type rides". But they wanted to expand beyond the tradition. They serve wine and other adult beverages, they have a big roller coaster with an inversion. They have beachside amusement park emulation. DCA is a mini combination of California attributes with a Disney spin - and cleanliness. I may be in the minority (but I doubt it) as someone who fully enjoys DCA. I agree that additions and improvements will enhance the park, but I really enjoy what they've started with, and with the ToT, they have now begun some of the major improvements. I think each "land" could use additional things to bring out the theming but, in general, I feel good when I go there.

Ghoulish Delight
05-14-2004, 09:00 AM
But by going with the "happy medium," they've failed to do well at either. The thrill rides pale in comparison to Magic Mountain's, and even Knott's. And their theming is attrocious compared to Disneyland. Very few people go to a park looking for both of those, it's generally one or the other. So instead of atracting people who want both, they've allientated the majority of people who want one or the either. And that includes me who appreciates both, but don't care for them in the same park. I love Magic Mountain because it's a place I can go and send myself hurling around tracks without taking time to care about the surroundings. I love Disneyland because it's somewhere I can relax and take in the beauty and immersiveness of the environment. I'm indifferent to DCA because I can't really do either.

jrad32
05-14-2004, 09:00 AM
DCA is what it is.

There are so many words I can think of to describe what DCA is, but most would have to be censored. :~D

sediment
05-14-2004, 09:38 AM
The theme has to work. It doesn't. End of story.

New theme idea: Make it a satirical view of California. That will please the tourists who already have a misguided view of the great state, and Californians can get use to laughing at themselves.

Pat-n-Eil
05-14-2004, 10:44 AM
The theme has to work. It doesn't. End of story.

New theme idea: Make it a satirical view of California. That will please the tourists who already have a misguided view of the great state, and Californians can get use to laughing at themselves.

Speaking for yourself.. Personally, my family and I enjoy the park and we get the theme.

jrad32
05-14-2004, 12:39 PM
Speaking for yourself.. Personally, my family and I enjoy the park and we get the theme.

Could you explain the theme to me? :confused: It seems like a rather limited theme. Not to mention somewhat silly to have a California themed park in California.

If I want boardwalk/carnival I'll go to Santa Cruz, Santa Monica or Mission Beach. If I want a wharf I'll go to San Francisco or Monterey. If I want to see Hollywood I'll go to Hollywood. Why would I want to go to DCA to see lame mock ups?

sediment
05-14-2004, 12:55 PM
Could you explain the theme to me? :confused: It seems like a rather limited theme. Not to mention somewhat silly to have a California themed park in California.

If I want boardwalk/carnival I'll go to Santa Cruz, Santa Monica or Mission Beach. If I want a wharf I'll go to San Francisco or Monterey. If I want to see Hollywood I'll go to Hollywood. Why would I want to go to DCA to see lame mock ups?
Only one explanation: fewer bums than in all of those places.
"DCA: California Without The Bums."

P&E, that's fine if you get the theme. I'm not knocking your rather unique abilities (some kind of superhero power?).
It's a problem for DIS the biz when too many people don't get the theme. (And when Eisner blames them, it's priceless!) That's a lot of money to pour into a once-well-themed (and positive cash flow) parking lot.
"Well-themed parking lot," you might scoff? The parking lot served its purpose: to grow the anticipation of every guest. You could see the entrance for the whole walk or tram ride. You could see the train station. You could see the Matterhorn and Space Mountain, if only barely, which added to the anticipation and the churning wheels of imaginative planning in the mind.

Pat-n-Eil
05-14-2004, 01:18 PM
Could you explain the theme to me? :confused: It seems like a rather limited theme. Not to mention somewhat silly to have a California themed park in California.

If I want boardwalk/carnival I'll go to Santa Cruz, Santa Monica or Mission Beach. If I want a wharf I'll go to San Francisco or Monterey. If I want to see Hollywood I'll go to Hollywood.

Certainly. Now you don't have to go to all of those places. That takes more time and effort.

Don't go on the Colorado or the American Rivers, you can go to Grizzly River Run. Don't brave the weirdos in San Francisco, you can get a better view of the Golden Gate from Soarin' over California. You don't have to go camping in the Sierras, just do the Challenge Trail. Forget about wondering if the wooden coaster at Santa Cruz is being maintained properly, just go on Screamin'.

You'll still have to go to Sacramento, however, if you want to see either the beautifully restored State Capitol or the World Acclaimed California Railroad Museum, but you can't have it all.

Just go to DCA and you don't have to worry about the bums, the drug dealers, the gangsta's or the filth either because it is cleaned all up! See? Isn't it great?
------------------------------------
But seriously: Walt came to California to fulfill his dreams, and now - so can you. That's the theme.

sediment
05-14-2004, 01:36 PM
But seriously: Walt came to California to fulfill his dreams, and now - so can you. That's the theme.
I find that hard to believe. I think the theme of the park should be somehow reflected in the park. Only thing I see remotely congruous to that theme is the Animation Building.

Towmod
05-14-2004, 01:44 PM
Forget about wondering if the wooden coaster at Santa Cruz is being maintained properly, just go on Screamin'.

Given Disneys recent past at shoddy maintenence, ill take the ride on the Santa Cruz coaster. The coaster has character to it something that is lacking at DCA. And if youve never ridden the coaster in SC, its a hell of a fun ride.

Oh and they already have a dark laser type shooting ride at the boardwalk... but wait isnt that the new Buzz ride?

Oh and I forgot to mention they also have a skyway.

merlinjones
05-14-2004, 01:48 PM
Disney's California Adventure park is: California without the "Disney" or the "adventure"....

California park.

Sell that...

Pat-n-Eil
05-14-2004, 01:56 PM
Disney's California Adventure park is: California without the "Disney" or the "adventure"....

California park.

Sell that...

I can't argue with the jaded or the locals.. people who are neither probably like the park better than you.

innerSpaceman
05-14-2004, 02:05 PM
Yeah, and that's one of the things that bothers me a lot about DCA: Locals can't really relate to the thinly-applied theme (even though they make up over 60% of resort visitors) and out-of-towners are being "encouraged" to replace the wonders of California with DCA. Ugh, it churns my stomach.

It's one thing to have a themepark reproduction of an African river safari, or a New Orleans riverfront, when those things are thousands of miles away. But to say that visitors to our grand and glorious state should avoid the tedious hundreds of miles necessary to see the magnificence of our coastline, the splendors of San Francisco, the wonders of Yosemite Valley, the awesomeness of the Sierra Nevada, the beauty of our Redwood forests, and the serenity of our desert landscapes because of the inadequate miniature or filmed representations provided by DCA in Southern California is a travesty of the highest order.

jrad32
05-14-2004, 02:23 PM
I can't argue with the jaded or the locals.. people who are neither probably like the park better than you.

I must be jaded because I am not local. When I go on vaction I don't find it a bother to go see the real places in California that make it a fun place to visit. Yosemite, San Francisco, San Diego, the coast along Highway 1, redwoods, Monterey Bay Aquarium, San Diego Zoo, Fisherman's Wharf, Disneyland and a host of other great spots.

DCA is not on this list for me.

sediment
05-14-2004, 03:14 PM
Part of the excitement of the Santa Cruz coaster is that it looks so dangerous. "It's how old? Omigod, it looks like it's going to collapse on itself. Let's ride it!"

sediment
05-14-2004, 03:15 PM
I can't argue with the jaded or the locals.. people who are neither probably like the park better than you.
Sure wish they'd spend the money and go to it, so Eisner can prove to us that it's a great park.

SCUBAbe
05-14-2004, 03:29 PM
We LOVE the aprk. We usually spend more time there than at D-Land. I thik it's because my child is a teenager and really likes the faster rides now and I always have. Disneyland has alot of slow rides. Which is good for when the children are young, but they tend to grow...LOL

CoasterMatt
05-14-2004, 10:10 PM
Part of the excitement of the Santa Cruz coaster is that it looks so dangerous. "It's how old? Omigod, it looks like it's going to collapse on itself. Let's ride it!"
Maybe I'm riding a totally different coaster in a totally Bizarroworld version of Santa Cruz, but the Giant Dipper is probably the FARTHEST from "it looks so dangerous" coasters in my mind. The Santa Cruz Giant Dipper is meticulously cared for by staff who practically treat the ride like a beloved child - there are inspections every 2 hours, while the ride is operating. (If you're lucky, you might see somebody pop down a hatch just before the train passes).
:D

CoasterMatt
05-14-2004, 10:12 PM
DCA is Disney's version of Islands of Adventure, with half the budget, half the imagination, half the thrills, half the family fun (things have been done to correct that, though)

Pat-n-Eil
05-15-2004, 11:14 AM
I guess I am unclear as to why those Disneyphiles who are disappointed with DCA won't allow the other people who enjoy it to express that view.

Some of you go to the park, you look around with eyes that see something that doesn't resemble what you'd hoped for. From the copious amounts of negativity posted on this board, you obviously have a bad time.

I go there, I enjoy the rides, the feeling, the openness of it and I am, in essense, labeled as someone who either doesn't get that so bad that it should be uncapable of being enjoyed or some kind of moron who doesn't respect the Disney tradition.

Let's see here.. I pay my money, I enter the park and I have a great time.
You've paid your money (often far less per visit than I do), you enter the park, and you grumble and moan about the lack of and have a bad time.

Tell me - who's getting the raw end of that deal? (hint: it isn't me).

It ticks you off that other people truly enjoy the park and because your current life's mission is either to knock down DCA/Eisner or you're living in some fantasyland where your constantly harping about whatever issues you have will actually change DCAs future - you won't allow yourself to enjoy it. How sad is that?

People can't post positive messages about DCA here without [i]someone who feels entitled to be the enjoyment police tearing down their thoughts and statements. Yet if a new parkgoer dares claim that the Peter Pan ride is boring or Mr. Toad's Wild Ride is not for them, they are "educated" or chastised because they don't understand the history of a classic ride.

Soarin' over California is one of my all time favorite coasters. It is long. It has a great launch start. It has an inversion that most people can handle. It is smooth. It has great vistas of the two parks (been on it twice while Believe! was going on.. awesome). It has good air time.. yet the DCA detractors have to whine about some lack of themeing. Know what? I like the authentic standard loading platform of it. That is exciting to me and reminds me of all of the coasters I used to go to other parks for.. now my favorite restort has one too!

Soarin' is spectacular whether you think it is an incomplete ride or not.

ToT will be great, I'm sure. And nobody seems to have mentioned that even though ours was built with $70 million, the original had all of the Research and Development dollars in it too. The true build prices are proabably much closer.

Lastly, I think DCA makes you angry because it is modern and contemporary -based on current and recent movies or activities and not on decades old movies and storybooks. Yeah, it is different. The history is not fairy tale history, but aviation history and exploration history and recreation history.

So go ahead and belittle, berate and debate - but the fact is that despite your market research numbers and your manipulated park attendance ticket data, there are a LOT of people like me and my family (and everyone I know in person who's been there) who truly, really, honestly and completely enjoy DCA. It isn't one of the top 10 Amusement parks in the country - by attendance for no reason.

DefyingGravity
05-15-2004, 11:27 AM
Soarin' over California is one of my all time favorite coasters. It is long. It has a great launch start. It has an inversion that most people can handle. It is smooth. It has great vistas of the two parks (been on it twice while Believe! was going on.. awesome). It has good air time.. yet the DCA detractors have to whine about some lack of themeing. Know what? I like the authentic standard loading platform of it. That is exciting to me and reminds me of all of the coasters I used to go to other parks for.. now my favorite restort has one too!

Soarin' is spectacular whether you think it is an incomplete ride or not.



Don't you mean Screamin'?
But yeah, I agree with you completely. Screamin' is wonderful, and I think Soarin' is a really unique experience. Everytime I get off the ride I have a huge smile on my face, and am trying to figure out how to ride again in the least amount of time possible. You can argue about the lack of transitions all you want, I still love it.
So maybe the park isn't perfect. So? When Disneyland opened, it wasn't perfect either. In fact, if you look at the attractions that the park opened with, most of the favorites were'nt built yet, i.e. Mansion, Pirates, Space, Splash, BTMRR, Matterhorn, etc.
I think people need to step back and try to get an unbiased view of DCA. You say that Paradise Pier looks like an old boardwalk carnival? It's supposed to, hence the name, Paradise Pier!
I think DCA is a great park, and I look forward to watching it grow into an even better one!

MMFan
05-15-2004, 12:33 PM
Soarin' over California is one of my all time favorite coasters.
I think you mean Screamin'....but since the geniuses who came up with names for DCA's rides made 2 of them sound alike, both ending with gimmicky apostrophes, I'm not surprised one name is confused for the other.



Lastly, I think DCA makes you angry because it is modern and contemporary -based on current and recent movies or activities and not on decades old movies and storybooks.
DCA annoys me not because it's modern & contemporary, but because it's too much like a slightly spiffed up SFMM or KBF. Or if by modern & contemporary, you mean it has lots of similiarities to parks all over the US, then, uh-huh, maybe that's why I think it's a big joke.



So go ahead and belittle, berate and debate - but the fact is that despite your market research numbers and your manipulated park attendance ticket data, there are a LOT of people like me and my family (and everyone I know in person who's been there) who truly, really, honestly and completely enjoy DCA. It isn't one of the top 10 Amusement parks in the country - by attendance for no reason.
I bet if DCA weren't sitting next to DL, it would have yearly attendance closer to SFMM, KBF, possibly USH.

Pat-n-Eil
05-15-2004, 01:13 PM
I indeed meant California Screamin' for the coaster and Soarin' Over California is, of course, the Hang Glider Sim... it won't let me edit my post, so that's my bad.. sorry.

DisneyDaniel
05-15-2004, 01:37 PM
What is Disney's California Adventure. It is my ideal amusement park-- excellent as it stands and it will get even better with future additions. DCA is a great combination of shows, attractions and rides. So, whether people like slow, medium, fast or even no rides, there is something at DCA for most people.

If you want exteme and insane rides, then go to Six Flags Magic Mountain.
If you want "A Country Built for Kids," then go to Legoland California.

But if you want a mix of different rides, shows and attractions (Disney's Aladdin - A Musical Spectacular, It's Tough To Be A Bug, Who Wants To Millionaire - Play It!, MuppetVision 3D, D.U.H. - Department of Untapped Hilarity, Disney's Electrical Parade, Playhouse Disney, Disney Animation, etc.), to fit a typical family's diverse levels of interest and enjoyment, then you have Disney's California Adventure.

DCA also has great food and beverages while you're there. Most of us dislike typical, low-quality food found at most amusement parks, but DCA has actually done a wonderful job in offering restaurant-quality food at places such as:
--Taste Pilot's Grill.
--Terrace Wine Tasting
--Wine Country Trattoria
--The Vineyard Room
--Ariel's Grotto
--Rita's Baja Blenders
--Pacific Wharf Cafe

If you're already spending a whole day (or even several hours), at an amuesment park, it's great to also enjoy your time eating there!

See you at DCA!