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Ace
10-21-2001, 10:22 AM
If Walt Disney were alive right now, what would he think of Disneyland?

MammaSilva
10-21-2001, 10:34 AM
ummmm "if" Walt were still alive Disneyland wouldn't be in the shape it is today IMHO....but that's just me....it's too sad that Roy Disney has no "juice" to maintain the 'Disney' dream......

innerSpaceman
10-21-2001, 01:08 PM
"Oh, good I haven't missed much." But, Mr. Disney, it's the year 2001. "What?," the recently defrosted Walt replied, "but it's almost like I left it, more or less. Is this all they've accomplished in 35 years!?! Fantasyland sure looks nice, but what the hell have they done with Tomorrowland? Where did it go?! I mean, come on, we were working on Space Mountain in my day, and there's nothing else there! Monorails look kinda bland, don't ya think? And let me see, no Peoplemover, no Skyway, no Submarines, no Trip to the Moon or to Mars, no Carousel of Progress or anything worth a damn in that rotating building I see they've kept around."

Mr. Disney seem dismayed. "I guess I just thought we'd be more spread out by now. And that there'd be a whole lot more attractions ... did you say 2001? I just thought it be more spectacular, that's all."

"Still looks like Disneyland, though. Suppose I should be glad it's still around. And if they haven't messed with it too much, well, that's not such a bad idea either. The place has still got it."

3894
10-21-2001, 02:56 PM
The concession prices would send Mr. Disney's pulses spinning. At least, that's what they do to me.

baileykat
10-21-2001, 03:26 PM
I'm sure there would be alot of "suits" looking for new jobs!

I also think that he would be proud that his legacy, although not quite up to his standards, has thrived over the years and continues to delight young and old all over the world....

Ace
10-21-2001, 04:20 PM
hee hee....... Innerspace man is right...... but I think that he'd say this....

WHY THE MONKEYS IS THERE A CALIFORNIA PARK......IN CALIFORNIA????

innerSpaceman
10-21-2001, 04:37 PM
Thanks Squinky. And you are correct - - - Walt with his quick grasp of theme would surely have come to the obvious conclusion about DCA that you have, and that his successors somehow managed to be the only people on earth to miss.

Ace
10-21-2001, 04:45 PM
I think this park was built on a day when Eisner got drunk, passed out, fell face first into a California road map and had a dream that, in some alternate universe, a theme park in California about California would make sense.......GO FIGURE

zapppop
10-21-2001, 05:40 PM
I think we can all agree that Walt would not be pleased with the way the park is operating today.

What do you think is the first thing Walt would change in Disneyland today ( the park, not the resort ; so can't say DCA ) ?

SimpTwister
10-21-2001, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by zapppop
What do you think is the first thing Walt would change in Disneyland today ( the park, not the resort ; so can't say DCA ) ?


Tomorrowland (or the lack of it). Walt would pass a brick if he saw all the closed/nonexistant attractions over there.

I would compare the current state of TL to, say, a Nordstrom or a Saks that has windows busted out and is covered by graffiti.

This is the type of problem that needs to be fixed YESTERDAY!

Bad show. Bad, bad show.

Ace
10-21-2001, 07:42 PM
If Walt were to fix one thing, he'd fix Tommorowland.....I said fix, I meant demolish and rebuild...to the exact opposite of what it was in 97 or whenever it was remodeled. and the peoplemovers would be the big attraction...twice as long, twice as good.... with no wait since it's the ride of the future.

MammaSilva
10-21-2001, 08:17 PM
ITA that Tommorowland would be the first thing on the 'todo' list with overall paint and polish right on it's heels! The tiki room would get a good dusting and refurb and the costumes of the CM's would be another High Priority....the costumes of the CM's would NOT be seen OUT side Disneyland ever again.....Ugh the list is sooo long ....

tabacco
10-21-2001, 09:20 PM
Have you guys read http://aghostwriter.com/snowbirdindex.html ?

Interesting "What if" story about Walt really being frozen. A bit too much suspense-novel junk for my taste, but not a horrible book. And it's entertaining to read about Walt's trip to Epcot :)

FEJ
10-21-2001, 09:23 PM
Here is a paper I wrote for an english class a year ago, and I think expresses my feelingsabout this subject my thoughts:
(Sorry if it's a bit long)
A Magical Place?
Walt Disney once said, "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money (Online, 2000)." Furthermore, when he opened Disneyland, had had this vision; "I don't want the public to see the world they live in while they're in the Park (Disneyland). I want to feel they're in another world (Online, 2000)." As I walked down Main Street USA, the main walkway used upon entering Disneyland, I couldn’t help but notice some things that disturbed me. I get the feeling that Walt’s ideals and visions are being clouded by the power and greed of the big business know as the “Walt Disney Company” and its sponsors.

Corporate sponsorship has always been a part of Disneyland. If not for the funding by Bank of America, along with the thirty-three other investors who helped Walt make his dream a reality, Disneyland would never have been developed. The rides or restaurants have always had a little sign mentioning the sponsor. During my stroll through “The Happiest Place on Earth”, I noticed a lot more “outside influences” inside the park. Once upon a time, when you went to get a soda pop, you would receive your drink in a “Disneyland” cup, and on the side of this cup was a small “Coca-Cola” logo. Nowadays, there are carts every hundred yard’s or so, with bins displaying Coca-Cola, Diet Coke, Sprite, Fruitopia, and a few other products owned by the Coca-Cola Company.

As I stepped into the Candy store on Main Street USA, I was greeted with the aroma of fresh chocolate. Having worked at Disneyland when I was seventeen, I am aware of the methods used to bait the customers into the shop. The smell of sugar and candy is pumped into the street outside the shop in an attempt to lure the customers in.

I could see the racks of salt-water taffy, sweets, and chocolates all bearing the Disney logo upon them. To my surprise, I could also see packages of candy that could be bought at any convenience store. Once again, a sponsor found a place to put more of their wares. Nestle Crunch bars, Goobers, Sweet Tarts, and a handful of other varieties adorned the shelves. Upon closer investigation, the Nestle Company manufactures most of these products.

The Walt Disney Company was a one-time owner of The Mighty Ducks, a National Hockey League (NHL) franchise; and the Anaheim Angels, a Major League Baseball (MLB) franchise. The products of those teams along with other major sports teams can be found in the shops around Disneyland.

It seems to me that these sponsors are trying to use their influence from the outside world to make sales within Disneyland. Walt believed, as noted in the quotation that started this essay that people should be able to escape from the outside world while they are in Disneyland. On the next visit to Disneyland, see if it is possible to “escape” the outside world so you can get that feeling of “another world.”

References
Disney Quotes [Online]. Available: http://www.justdisney.com/walt_disney/quotes/index.html:
(November 25, 2000).

Ralph Wiggum
10-21-2001, 10:12 PM
that's my bro :)

innerSpaceman
10-22-2001, 04:13 PM
I think the first two things Walt would change are:

1) Get rid of McDonald's. Sponsorship is one thing, but you might as well have a 7-11 on Main Street if you're going to let McDonald's in. In balancing the economic needs of sponsorship with the desire to make guests feel that they've left the regular world behind, Walt would come down squarely on the side of banishing McDonald's from the Park.

2) That Star Tours ride has got to go! Put in the Hollywood area of DCA or something, but this park is called DISNEYLAND. Either it's based on Disney, or the imagineers think it up themselves. That's the way it's done, OK? Did George Lucas buy the place? And that Indy ride . . . well, at least it's an honest-to-goodness attraction instead of a cheap movie masquerading as an attraction. Ok, Indy stays. Star Tours goes.

And while we're in Tomorrowland (here Walt simply rolls up his sleeves and gets to work. Rehabilitation will take years.)

totbellhop
10-22-2001, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
I think the first two things Walt would change are:

1) Get rid of McDonald's. Sponsorship is one thing, but you might as well have a 7-11 on Main Street if you're going to let McDonald's in. In balancing the economic needs of sponsorship with the desire to make guests feel that they've left the regular world behind, Walt would come down squarely on the side of banishing McDonald's from the Park.

2) That Star Tours ride has got to go! Put in the Hollywood area of DCA or something, but this park is called DISNEYLAND. Either it's based on Disney, or the imagineers think it up themselves. That's the way it's done, OK? Did George Lucas buy the place? And that Indy ride . . . well, at least it's an honest-to-goodness attraction instead of a cheap movie masquerading as an attraction. Ok, Indy stays. Star Tours goes.

And while we're in Tomorrowland (here Walt simply rolls up his sleeves and gets to work. Rehabilitation will take years.)

I totally disagree with you innerSpaceman, why would Walt get rid of Mcdonalds from the park, it's one of the few places of the park that sell good and quick food. And whats that about getting rid of Star Tours, are you nuts, it's a classic Disney ride, one of the best, and you want to get rid of it, it's the best of Tomorrowland and you want to get rid of it, it's one of the few places in the Disneyland Resort were you see anima-tronics in the very detailed queue and you STILL want to GET RID OF IT?!
Talk about a very "inner"Spaceman, Star Tours was the ride that replaced the "Adventures Thru Inner Space" ride, remember?

Ace
10-22-2001, 04:50 PM
hey guys simmer.........I think he should remove McDonalds too....I go to Disneyland to get away from all that stuff. Yesterday I realized I'd only been on the monorail once and then I realized why....... It taked you out of the park and into the real world.

innerSpaceman
10-22-2001, 08:28 PM
Sorry ToTbellhop. Maybe it's time to come down from the 13th floor and back to earth. Yes, Star Tours does have a very detailed queue featuring some quasi-AA figures. But that's the queue! On that basis, I would suggest that the queue is better than the attraction, which is simply a movie, not at all ambitious, and not anything that by its very nature could not be duplicated in any theme park. Don't get me wrong, I think Star Tours is a lot of fun. It's a blast. I've had many, many good times on that ride.

But it and its followers (Body Wars, Soarin') represent a sell-out of the unique Disneyland concept of attractions which immerse the guest in physcially created environments.

It's still jarring to me, even after all these years, to see Star Wars and Indiana Jones attractions at Disneyland, as if the place were Lucasland. I'm a big fan of those films, and enjoy both of those attractions, but I was simply stating what I expeced Walt to have thought -- that ideas not created by Disney or by Disneyland don't really belong in that particular park that bears the Disney name. And now that the company has plenty of other types of theme parks, let's consider that these two attractions might be more appropriate for some of those. Heck, DCA could use some more good attractions, why don't they move Star Tours and Indy over there and let the imagineers create their own worlds for Disneyland as they are duly famous for?

SimpTwister
10-22-2001, 09:37 PM
I'm fine with the Lucas-based attractions in DL.

My problem with StarTours is that, while fun, the ancient technology is no longer worthy of the Star Wars name.

I see innerSpaceman's point about movie-based attractions, but I disagree. Sure, DCA has too many movies, but that doesn't mean all movie-based attractions are bad.

I do completely agree with innerSpaceman that if they have McDonald's in the park, they might as well have 7-11.

To me, McDonald's is not the wholesome, all-American institution that the commercials would suggest. It's ghetto.

McDonald's is more at home between Peek-A-Boo Video and Pay Day Loans than it is in DL.

Sure I'm exaggerating, a bit. My point is that McDonald's is very much a real-world thing, that has nothing to do with fantasy. I'd even say it's anti-fantasy.

Morrigoon
10-22-2001, 09:59 PM
In its time, Star Tours was a great, dare I say it, spectacular, addition to the land. The sim technology was just hitting its heyday, and they'd topped it with Star Tours. But it's been over a decade. Still a good ride, I guess, but I must admit I haven't been on it in probably a year - it's been done.

I have no problem with the Lucas-based rides in DL. I honestly don't think Walt would either. As a showman, he'd be more interested in whether the ride was worthy of his park/guests than whether or not it was based on one of his "properties".

Indy was the last real E-ticket (I never thought much of Rocket Rods, D-ticket at best and ruined the aural aesthetics of the land). Indy absolutely belongs where it is. Adventureland was nothing before Indy. Sure it had the ever-classic Jungle Cruise, but let's be honest, before 1995, AL did not get the traffic it now does. Indy is the draw.

(I miss Tahitian Terrace though!!!!!!)

totbellhop
10-23-2001, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by SimpTwister
I'm fine with the Lucas-based attractions in DL.

My problem with StarTours is that, while fun, the ancient technology is no longer worthy of the Star Wars name.

I see innerSpaceman's point about movie-based attractions, but I disagree. Sure, DCA has too many movies, but that doesn't mean all movie-based attractions are bad.

I do completely agree with innerSpaceman that if they have McDonald's in the park, they might as well have 7-11.

To me, McDonald's is not the wholesome, all-American institution that the commercials would suggest. It's ghetto.

McDonald's is more at home between Peek-A-Boo Video and Pay Day Loans than it is in DL.

Sure I'm exaggerating, a bit. My point is that McDonald's is very much a real-world thing, that has nothing to do with fantasy. I'd even say it's anti-fantasy.

Hey guys, leave Mcdonalds alone, besides, it's just food, and the two Mc-venues they have at Disneyland(Conestoga Fries, and the new aquired Harbor Galley) they are well themed, to fast food standards.

Originally posted by SimpTwister
Sorry ToTbellhop. Maybe it's time to come down from the 13th floor and back to earth. Yes, Star Tours does have a very detailed queue featuring some quasi-AA figures. But that's the queue! On that basis, I would suggest that the queue is better than the attraction, which is simply a movie, not at all ambitious, and not anything that by its very nature could not be duplicated in any theme park. Don't get me wrong, I think Star Tours is a lot of fun. It's a blast. I've had many, many good times on that ride.

But it and its followers (Body Wars, Soarin') represent a sell-out of the unique Disneyland concept of attractions which immerse the guest in physcially created environments.

It's still jarring to me, even after all these years, to see Star Wars and Indiana Jones attractions at Disneyland, as if the place were Lucasland. I'm a big fan of those films, and enjoy both of those attractions, but I was simply stating what I expeced Walt to have thought -- that ideas not created by Disney or by Disneyland don't really belong in that particular park that bears the Disney name. And now that the company has plenty of other types of theme parks, let's consider that these two attractions might be more appropriate for some of those. Heck, DCA could use some more good attractions, why don't they move Star Tours and Indy over there and let the imagineers create their own worlds for Disneyland as they are duly famous for?
And InnerSpaceman, please get out of the tiny molecule world and return to reality, Disneyland Management would never move an atraction from park to park, it has never happened, the only thing that could happen is that they completely remove all the mechanical and themed parts from the atraction, construct another building in the other park, and move all the old things to there, BUT, imagine moving all of Indy and Star Tours, to DCA, and WHERE? there is not enough space for them there. Well, excuse me if I sound a little rude, I know you sayed it in a "If-it-could-happen" way and I respect your point of view, but lets get serious know OK.

And, I almost forgot the topic of this thread, I think that if Walt would come back to see what his dream has come to be, he would congratulate all of the Walt Disney Company, why? Because the company has survived at least the first 30 years. And I think he would be very disapointed of something, his real dream, the REAL EPCOT, the perfect city that was his dream to build, that never was because he died, but maybe, mark my words, in a far future, a good CEO will remember Walt's vision, of the city of the future, and maybe, if he has the perfect budget, he will build THE REAL EPCOT.:crying:
Please excuse my tears.

SimpTwister
10-23-2001, 06:36 PM
Just want to point out that I was misquoted above.

The first quote in the previous post was indeed mine, but the second, attributed to me, actually came from innerSpaceman.

innerSpaceman
10-23-2001, 07:49 PM
Yes, that is my rant quoted above. And I will come at least out of the realm of the sub-atomic if ToTbellhop will meet me on the Sixth-and-a-Half floor.

Of course they will not move those rides (Indy and Star Tours, that is) - but Indiana Jones is located so far out into what used to be the parking lot that is practically IS in DCA. They just need to build an entrance from the other side. It could the first joint Disneyland/DCA attraction.

Just wanted to point out that in WDW, where they had the luxury of having a movie-based theme park, Star Tours and Indiana Jones-based attractions were wisely located there. Now that we have a theme park with a movie-based "land," I just thought it would be nice to move those attractions across the esplanade where they belong. Not that it would happen in a million years, but simply wishful thinking.

totbellhop
10-23-2001, 08:00 PM
InnerSpaceman:
I know that it will never happen, I was just saying that your "wishful thinkings" are quite impossible, I know that it is not bad to dream, you know, Just Believe!

And, sorry SimpTwister, I missed that:rolleyes: , I'm very sorry. I'ts the first time I use two quotes in one messagge, I just didn't know :confused: