PDA

View Full Version : Big thunder Accident #2



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5

happyhaunts999
04-06-2004, 06:47 AM
Al lutz is reporting that there was an accident involving 2 trains this week. Is this true was anybody at the park to witness this or hear it. He says that the first train ran into the back of the other one as it was waiting to go into the station. No one was on the ride thank god.

cemeinke
04-06-2004, 06:53 AM
We were there that evening - didn't witness the event but it was obvious that something was up as the work lights were up and a yellow tape barrier kept crowds from getting too close to take a peak.

Not Afraid
04-06-2004, 06:56 AM
You could tell something other than an e-stop was up that night (Saturday). I'm glad it wasn't worse and that there were no injuries.

scottmen
04-06-2004, 07:32 AM
This is scary. Imagine if the trains were loaded. Should this ride be open with the possibility of what happened on Sat night to happen again. I don't think I will go on that ride anytime soon.

Scott

AVP
04-06-2004, 07:35 AM
We were waiting to board the ride Saturday night when the ride e-stopped. We would have been on the next train. We were standing ON the unload platform at the time, and I saw and heard nothing even vaguely resembling a collision. There was a decided LACK of urgency or panic on the part of the crew working the ride at the time. We saw a manager walk slowly FROM the attraction, casually talking on their radio. There was no crush of security, no flash mob of management, no race to evacuate the queue. The passengers were eventually walked off the attraction, so it definitely was populated when this happened.

If this is the same incident being reported, I don't know why there wasn't a bigger to-do made. Nothing we saw - and we waited around for quite a while - indicated that this was anything more serious than an e-stop.

AVP

justagrrl
04-06-2004, 08:22 AM
I'm shocked that they are running the attraction before doing an complete investigation. Could they have really found the cause and fixed it in a just a little over 12 hours?

NirvanaMan
04-06-2004, 08:52 AM
Several of us had Fastpasses for that night. We went back to watch fantasmic then ride it, and seamonkey and I noticed that there were benches blocking the path between the shooting gallery area and the Thunder Fastpass area (that runs closest to the ride). That's odd we thought. Even if the ride went 101 (which has been happening a lot lately) why would they block off the path???

sediment
04-06-2004, 08:56 AM
Well, the fix was a quick one: with only one train running, the odds of it hitting another train on the track are currently pretty low.

teri
04-06-2004, 09:07 AM
Well, the fix was a quick one: with only one train running, the odds of it hitting another train on the track are currently pretty low.

Oh, Lord, don't let the lawyers hear you say that!

justagrrl
04-06-2004, 09:26 AM
Well, the fix was a quick one: with only one train running, the odds of it hitting another train on the track are currently pretty low.

Seems like there are plenty of other computer glitches that could cause problems with the ride.

I really want to say "I told you so" to everyone who said it would be one of the safest rides in the entire park, but I'll refrain. :rolleyes:

ROBONICS95
04-06-2004, 09:43 AM
sounds to me like the report is way over exagerated. you can barely hear fantasmic from the hub yet alone "2 trains crashing". i would understand if the trains were going head to head, full speed...........
with the new refurb on BTMRR and its updated technology this is still probably one of the safest rides in the park.

Disneyphile
04-06-2004, 09:46 AM
I really want to say "I told you so" to everyone who said it would be one of the safest rides in the entire park, but I'll refrain. :rolleyes:Heck, just rename it to Big Thunder Mountain Derail Road, change the spiel to "This here's the unsafest ride in the wilderness!" and be done with it. ;)

Cadaverous Pallor
04-06-2004, 09:56 AM
Ah, rumors and misinformation and conclusions, oh my!

Al's been way off the mark before *cough*teacups*cough*, and I'm never believing him about anything remotely contraversial again until I see proof.

If anyone ever says "I told you so" based on a rumor, I'll laugh.

It's obvious something big happened there, what with the area blocked off. Al's report, as usual, has a lot of "personalized details" regarding guest reactions etc. I'm just wondering why AVP didn't hear anything if you could hear the crash "even out into the busy hub and even towards the end of Main Street."

sediment
04-06-2004, 09:59 AM
Oh, Lord, don't let the lawyers hear you say that!
Seems like a T Irby solution.

Here's a little note for all concerned about safety: none of the rides is 100% safe. No step you take is 100% safe. No breath you take is 100% safe.

HBTiggerFan
04-06-2004, 10:10 AM
It happend during a cycleup after it was down, which explains why AVP and friends didn't hear a crash or see a mass of management/emergency crews rushing to BTMRR.


During a very routine downtime this past Saturday evening the crew of Attraction Cast Members were attempting to restart Big Thunder after all of the riders had been escorted off and the queue had been emptied out. As they cycled through their well practiced routine of bringing all of the trains back into the station, the computer system that ultimately controls the placement and spacing of the trains apparently ran into a glitch and caused the collision

cstephens
04-06-2004, 10:12 AM
I thought it was funny that a Fastpass "from that very night" was a big enough deal to merit being included in the story.

tahnok100
04-06-2004, 10:14 AM
Let’s say that the entire story is true. I still don't see what the big deal is :confused: . The system seems to be fail-safe since no one was hurt. Everyone was evacuated before the trains were started again, which, if I remember correctly, is a new measure taken since the accident. Was it not just the other day that Screamscape reported a site with a video showing Space Mountain with all the lights on being manually restarted with trains full of guests? It seem that Big Thunders system is taking plenty of precautions to prevent a rider from being injured. Who cares if a train got crushed? The proper measures were taken to ensure that a guest was not.


I'm just wondering why AVP didn't hear anything if you could hear the crash "even out into the busy hub and even towards the end of Main Street."

AVP said that he was waiting when the ride e-stopped. Now, if I read the report correctly, the accident happened considerably after the ride had e-stopped. I have no doubt that if there was a crash as large as the one described that it could heard in quite a large area. Not necessarily out at Main Street, but certainly in the Frontierland area

cstephens
04-06-2004, 10:25 AM
AVP said that he was waiting when the ride e-stopped.

Just FYI - "she".

Cadaverous Pallor
04-06-2004, 11:09 AM
It happend during a cycleup after it was down, which explains why AVP and friends didn't hear a crash or see a mass of management/emergency crews rushing to BTMRR.Thanks for the clarification...I admit to scanning the article.

Opus1guy
04-06-2004, 11:31 AM
Heck, just rename it to Big Thunder Mountain Derail Road, change the spiel to "This here's the unsafest ride in the wilderness!" and be done with it.

:)

That kinda reminds me of David Letterman's monologue one night during the week Tower Of Terror opened in Florida.


Down in Disney World there they got this new ride...this new thrill ride...called Tower of Terror that they're just about to open up. So Michael Eisner...you know the big shot there at Disney...Eisner...he goes down to test the ride himself. Well...apparently he didn't like it...he didn't think it was scary enough...and he told his Imagineers to make it scarier.

So they took out 3 bolts.

Really. That aired. :)

Crispy
04-06-2004, 11:40 AM
The system seems to be fail-safe since no one was hurt. Everyone was evacuated before the trains were started again, which, if I remember correctly, is a new measure taken since the accident.

The point is that the computer controls stopping trains so that they don't enter a brake zone while another train is there. It's this blocking system that originated with the matterhorn that allows mutliple cars/trains to run on one track without colliding. The computer allowed a train to enter a break zone while another train was stopped there, thus causing a collision. If the computer allows this to happen while the ride was being started up, then it could happen when the ride is put on E-stop or when a train is waiting in the station and another is coming in behind it. If this accident is true, then I think it is much more alarming than the accident in September. That accident was the result of pure neglegence. If this was due to a computer glitch, then it was not the result of lack of maintenance or operator mistake. I'm just wondering why the ride has operated fine for so many years and then accidents like this one has occurred only recently. The blocking system that makes such rides safe go back to the matterhorn in 58. Technology has come a long way since then. You'd think they could make Big Thunder as equally safe as the Matterhorn was in 58.

If this accident is only a rumor, then why would fastpass be closed and why would they be running only two trains? I guess maybe if Fastpass comes back up and they are running 4 trains again, then maybe we will have reason to believe things wer exagerated.

Cris

RagtimePrince
04-06-2004, 12:28 PM
Crispy's post makes a lot of sense. Trains are not supposed to collide, period. It's happened with many high-profile coasters, mostly without guests on board, but if the problem is there it will probably show up again. On the Pepsi Max: Big One in England (Arrow hypercoaster, like Desperado and Magnum at Cedar Point) a train sailed through the brake run on more than one occasion, with guests on the ride. Not a good thing. Superman: Ride of Steel at Six Flags New England did it too, and the similar ride of the same name at another Six Flags park flew through the brakes and station but luckily was the only train on the ride.

It's not a minor problem when fail-safe logic controllers fail.
You'd think they could make Big Thunder as equally safe as the Matterhorn was in 58.Actually, one thing about the Matterhorn in 58 is that the original trains had ~2ft long styrofoam noses and bumpers in the back, since the designers figured that at some point, trains would collide even with the "space-age" ;) block system. The whole system on that ride is totally different now, no more booster-brakes and different trains, but maybe bumpers would be a good idea on Big Thunder now. :|

tahnok100
04-06-2004, 12:30 PM
It's this blocking system that originated with the matterhorn that allows mutliple cars/trains to run on one track without colliding.

Yes, I am quite familiar with the block brake system. I was referring to them evacuating the ride before restarting it. As I said, I am basing this off of the video of Space Mountain manually restarting the trains with guests in them, which is why I think it was smart of them to evacuate before restarting. Block brakes have a tendency to get off timing when e-stopped, and I think the correct measures were taken to make sure no one was hurt.


then it could happen when the ride is put on E-stop

Unlikely, I am not a cast member, but as I understand it, when a coaster goes into e-stop it stops all trains at the next brake section or lift hill. If the block system is working correctly there will always be an open brake in front of the train. The only reason it was not working correctly, as far as I can tell from what I read, is because it had already e-stopped.

danyoung
04-06-2004, 12:40 PM
Since they are currently running the ride, and since the fault according to Al's report was in the computer program, I can only surmise that this problem was easily identified and easily and definitively fixed. Something like a sensor didn't report, and they found a damaged sensor and replaced it. Or perhaps a subroutine that had been disabled during the testing phase, and the computer programmer found it instantly and re-enabled it. This is all conjecture, but I've gotta believe that Disney would never put the ride back into operation if they didn't have a strong answer as to what went wrong and what needed to be fixed.

AVP
04-06-2004, 12:49 PM
The Disneyland Resort will be releasing a statement on the reported accident later today, and I will post it here as soon as we get a copy.

AVP