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Berry Princess
12-08-2018, 01:20 PM
My husband saw this in the OC Register this morning. All I have to say is, its about time they do something.

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/12/07/disneyland-is-quietly-revoking-annual-passes-of-guests-who-buy-and-resell-souvenirs/ Copy of it below for those that can't see it but usually opening the article in an incognito windo works.

Disneyland has been quietly revoking the annual passes of so-called “personal shoppers” and others who buy collectible merchandise inside the parks and then resell it, either to individuals or online, according to observers and people who say it happened to them.

The move demonstrates Disney’s powerful marketing savvy — and also the seemingly insatiable appetite of collectors who are willing to pay sometimes high markups for limited-edition merchandise that’s only sold inside the parks. Even items that seem mundane to the uninitiated — like plastic popcorn buckets made in China — can be feverishly sought-after by Disney collectors, when they’re carefully released in limited quantities for a short time only.

[Mod. Note: Full text removed]

cstephens
12-08-2018, 02:28 PM
These two quotes amuse me.

"I knew Disney was greedy, but I didnt know how greedy." Says the person who is taking advantage of getting a discount to then turn around and make money from the fact that they got a discount.

"I kind of feel like theyre making enough money, McClure said. Why do they have to go after the little people?" They're such a big corporation - who cares if one little person takes advantage of them?

It's been a pretty well known fact in the Disney communities that I frequent that if you're planning to re-sell an item, you don't use your AP discount to make the purchase, because yes, there is specific language that you can't use your discount in that fashion. In the cases where I've purchased something as a favor on someone else's behalf, I only use my AP for a discount if I know they also have an AP, and they pay me back for what I paid using the discount. If they don't have an AP, I make it clear that I'm purchasing the product at full price and they would then need to reimburse me for the actual cost of what I paid. If I'm buying something for someone and giving it to them and not asking for reimbursement, then I use my AP discount.

I also find it interesting that the article mentions that even though her pass has been revoked, she still has to continue making payments. They fail to mention that it's the proper thing to do. She should have paid the full price of the pass upfront, but they allowed monthly payments. The payments are still due even if she can no longer use the pass, in the same way that if she'd paid the full price up front, and then they revoked the pass, she's not entitled to a refund of the unused portion.

It's always fun to see people talk about how much Disney means to them and then how Disney is so mean to them over such a tiny thing. Yeah, no, it's a business, and you misused the terms of service. Your own fault if you didn't read it.

Berry Princess
12-08-2018, 03:19 PM
Completely agree with what you said. I told my husband that I am sure this has to do with the crazy that will come with Star Wars land next year so they need to get a hold on it now (which they should have done years ago really).

We all sign those contracts and agree to Disney's rules. Like you said its a business and Disney has a right to protect their business. If one doesn't follow rules of the business (AP contract or a day ticket, etc) then they have every right to revoke that pass/ticket. It is funny when one complains the company is greedy but its ok for them to be off that company's merchandise. SMH

The complaining she still has to pay...I laughed at that one. Of course you have to pay the rest, you signed a contract to make 12 payments. LMAO Revoked AP doesn't mean they let you off the hook. BTW, I've noticed over the last year or so that the register seems to like to leave out key details on the reasons behind, in this case why they have to keep paying for their pass.

The whole thing about the "going after the little people"...what are they doing? They are taking from many that never had a chance to buy that item in person. They were mentioning how Disney wants you to go shop on their Disney Parks online shop app but most the stuff in the app is not here (last I looked) and even if it was wouldn't a buyer rather get it from Disney then from a reseller up-charging them or charging them for their time to shop on top of the cost of the item? It seemed like these people just want to give lots of excuses but no take any responsibility for their actions. I think many of us have had plenty of times we would have liked a chance to buy a certain item to only find out they are sold out because of these people. All I know is no sympathy from me on this....you broke the rules.

Shortpix77
12-08-2018, 03:51 PM
They were mentioning how Disney wants you to go shop on their Disney Parks online shop app but most the stuff in the app is not here (last I looked) and even if it was wouldn't a buyer rather get it from Disney then from a reseller up-charging them or charging them for their time to shop on top of the cost of the item?

Agree with all of the above, but wanted to say more on this -- I would LOVE if Disney would increase the supply of limited items and actually have all of their items on the ShopDisney site. I would also love there to always be a two-item limit on the "desired" items. There have been quite a few times that I simply couldn't take off work/invest a whole day in getting a specific item that I wanted. If the items were also released online or were present at the parks for more than a day or two, I'd be a lot happier, and I know a lot of others would be too. I don't understand why Disney WOULDN'T want to increase supply on desirable items (like the Haunted Mansion Tiki or the latest Haunted Mansion Dooney line) -- wouldn't that just mean more sales/money for them? It seems illogical to me NOT to just make more of the things...

And yes, increasing supply would also shut down the folks putting the extras on eBay and jacking up the prices. Might not stop the "personal shopper" types that may be marketing themselves to folks out of state, but I think it would still help the problem overall.

currence
12-08-2018, 04:28 PM
I found the timing of this interesting as I just spent more this past week than I probably have all year. But everything I bought was for me/Christmas presents. It's just beyond my usual spending patterns. I'm now curious if this flags anything in their system or if they are going to social media to find sellers.

Dave1313
12-08-2018, 06:28 PM
Interesting read, thanks for posting!

I hope they start going after people doing this at WDW as well. I'm sure the problem is equally as bad there. Magic Bands come to mind (though I'm sure it extends to lots of stuff, just like the DL items)... I've seen notice on a fan site for Magic Bands where the person who runs the site has his first notice of a new band coming out is because he sees one for sale on eBay.

candles71
12-08-2018, 07:15 PM
I'm now curious if this flags anything in their system or if they are going to social media to find sellers.
I read it as Social Media and Ebay sellers, not flagging in their system. Although it could be twofold. Flagged then watching Social media perhaps?
I was quite happy about this as well.
I have had some pick up specific items for me and always just pay them cost and their shipping cost. I appreciate them doing me a favor, I don't use personal shoppers and hate the price gouging that occurs after they clean out supply (resellers).

Berry Princess
12-08-2018, 08:51 PM
I found the timing of this interesting as I just spent more this past week than I probably have all year. But everything I bought was for me/Christmas presents. It's just beyond my usual spending patterns. I'm now curious if this flags anything in their system or if they are going to social media to find sellers.

We were wondering how as well. I would guess since we get our pass scan for discounts they could track what we are buying and how much but maybe its those buying large amounts of items at one time that send flags and they start looking into that person?? I think buying large amounts of merchandise though, in general, wouldn't be a big deal. Especially when its Christmas time and I wouldn't be surprised if many of us spend more at this time then we do most the year. LOL


Interesting read, thanks for posting!

I hope they start going after people doing this at WDW as well. I'm sure the problem is equally as bad there. Magic Bands come to mind (though I'm sure it extends to lots of stuff, just like the DL items)... I've seen notice on a fan site for Magic Bands where the person who runs the site has his first notice of a new band coming out is because he sees one for sale on eBay.

I hope so too because its just not ok.

sjhanksaz
12-08-2018, 09:45 PM
ha, ha, ha, ha ha ha ,haaa ha ha ha ha

AnotherJenny
12-09-2018, 06:51 AM
I wouldn't consider someone making $200-300 per month in profit reselling items to be "the little people" like that guy thinks he is.

I've always thought that Disney prefers things like the hitchhiking ghosts mugs to be extremely limited. That way they can plan to produce a number that turns them a profit they find acceptable and plan to only staff the sale for a day or two. If they had enough to last the whole month of October they'd have to deal with increased traffic to the hotel and Trader Sam's every day for the month. And I don't think it would just be a small percentage increase, more like threefold or more. And then on top of that they'd have the dedicate even more warehouse space for even longer to the point that it would impact other items available at the resort. It's nice to think they could just make more, but they order and store this stuff months in advance and it's space that takes away from other items.

I don't think they're really that concerned with the people who buy popcorn buckets and drink sippers anyway. There are personal shoppers who are there several times per week that the store CMs know very well. They're competing much more directly with Disney's park shopping app and website. Someone who goes through the yeti Pop line 5 times might be who people complain about online, so maybe Disney is lumping then together.

I doubt buying a bunch of gifts is going to flag anything. The personal shoppers are pretty open with what they do and easily identified.

sjhanksaz
12-09-2018, 08:07 PM
I wouldn't consider someone making $200-300 per month in profit reselling items to be "the little people" like that guy thinks he is.

I've always thought that Disney prefers things like the hitchhiking ghosts mugs to be extremely limited. That way they can plan to produce a number that turns them a profit they find acceptable and plan to only staff the sale for a day or two. If they had enough to last the whole month of October they'd have to deal with increased traffic to the hotel and Trader Sam's every day for the month. And I don't think it would just be a small percentage increase, more like threefold or more. And then on top of that they'd have the dedicate even more warehouse space for even longer to the point that it would impact other items available at the resort. It's nice to think they could just make more, but they order and store this stuff months in advance and it's space that takes away from other items.

I don't think they're really that concerned with the people who buy popcorn buckets and drink sippers anyway. There are personal shoppers who are there several times per week that the store CMs know very well. They're competing much more directly with Disney's park shopping app and website. Someone who goes through the yeti Pop line 5 times might be who people complain about online, so maybe Disney is lumping then together.

I doubt buying a bunch of gifts is going to flag anything. The personal shoppers are pretty open with what they do and easily identified.

I think it's more about making a better experience for the other guests. If one guy buys 20 buckets a month to sell on line and make 10 bucks per then that means that 20 guests who want them for their own collection may go home without one.

AnotherJenny
12-10-2018, 09:07 AM
If it were only 20 open edition popcorn buckets per month, Disney wouldn't care.

olegc
12-10-2018, 09:57 AM
Agree with all of the above, but wanted to say more on this -- I would LOVE if Disney would increase the supply of limited items and actually have all of their items on the ShopDisney site. I would also love there to always be a two-item limit on the "desired" items. There have been quite a few times that I simply couldn't take off work/invest a whole day in getting a specific item that I wanted. If the items were also released online or were present at the parks for more than a day or two, I'd be a lot happier, and I know a lot of others would be too. I don't understand why Disney WOULDN'T want to increase supply on desirable items (like the Haunted Mansion Tiki or the latest Haunted Mansion Dooney line) -- wouldn't that just mean more sales/money for them? It seems illogical to me NOT to just make more of the things...

And yes, increasing supply would also shut down the folks putting the extras on eBay and jacking up the prices. Might not stop the "personal shopper" types that may be marketing themselves to folks out of state, but I think it would still help the problem overall.




I've always thought that Disney prefers things like the hitchhiking ghosts mugs to be extremely limited. That way they can plan to produce a number that turns them a profit they find acceptable and plan to only staff the sale for a day or two. If they had enough to last the whole month of October they'd have to deal with increased traffic to the hotel and Trader Sam's every day for the month. And I don't think it would just be a small percentage increase, more like threefold or more. And then on top of that they'd have the dedicate even more warehouse space for even longer to the point that it would impact other items available at the resort. It's nice to think they could just make more, but they order and store this stuff months in advance and it's space that takes away from other items.


I have noticed that the item limit has been all over the map recently. Most of the in-park specific stuff has been one or two but things like the Vinyl Pop has been 5 or 10 (tiki was 5, splash was 10, etc). I dont know why it varies but it should be standardized.

Frankly - I think Disney loves the secondary market of exclusive item sales. It creates that buzz of folks who have to have an item, and then provides incentive to other who feel they missed out to make it a point to come to the park for the next one. The whole misuse of discount is an issue that I think is connected but separate. The exclusivity bug is here to stay - merchandise, events, etc. I dont think you will see them increase merchandise volume. Look at all the publicity they get when lines are crazy long - radio stations, tv, and all of their connected social sites. No brainer - keep that fever going.

Berry Princess
12-10-2018, 10:40 AM
I'd beg to differ considering what Disney is doing now (and should have done years ago). I don't think it matters if its open edition or limited. When we sign those AP contracts we have rules that if one doesn't follow will get their AP revoked. If one can't follow the rules, then to bad. I wouldn't be surprised if they have had more complaints on items (limited and open) sold out to fast for them to have a chance at buying just one so Disney is needing to really look at this for when Star Wars opens and get as much a handle on it as they can.

I think Disney is pretty good at creating their own buzz about items at this point. Plenty of help from fan sites/forums/social media when the items are posted about too.

IMO, this can be looked at as these people are bringing their business on to Disney's property and doing their own business there. How many times have many of them listed items they just bought while they are still in the parks and used a Disneyland location as their background? The article even had one person say she has seen it happen where a reseller has walked to the back of the line after buying items to resell them to those in the back. Which really should have been reported (if it wasn't and I hope it was) to a cast member.

AnotherJenny
12-10-2018, 02:19 PM
There's no AP discount on popcorn buckets.

Berry Princess
12-10-2018, 02:43 PM
There's no AP discount on popcorn buckets.

I know that and I'm sure others here do as well but its not just about popcorn buckets. Plenty of items they buy up are discounted. Was the tiki mug given an AP discount? Aren't Dooney and Burke purses?

AnotherJenny
12-10-2018, 06:01 PM
And there are also people buying items without a discount and reselling them. If someone violates the terms of their APs they shouldn't be surprised when they're revoked. But people buying relatively small amounts of open edition merchanside without a discount over the course of a month, that's hardly a blip on the radar.

GrumpyGoofyGuy
12-10-2018, 06:49 PM
I know that and I'm sure others here do as well but its not just about popcorn buckets. Plenty of items they buy up are discounted. Was the tiki mug given an AP discount? Aren't Dooney and Burke purses?

Yes you get a discount on D&B purses.
A few years ago they introduced the original Haunted Mansion Dooney purse that was only available in the parks. (Not at the Disney Store) They ended up only selling them at the Vault 28 location. We checked there every day of every trip for 1.5 years with no success. They would tell us that we'd just have to show up at the store opening to see if they received any. We did just that and were always told either they didn't get any that day, or just sold the last one. They wouldn't answer their phone, or return the messages we left. They would not put you on a wait list or even call you when they received stock. Meanwhile, they are showing up in numbers on eBay for way more than retail price, and most of the seller's locations were in SoCal. (A few in Florida) My wife finally got discouraged and gave up. I ended up buying her one for Christmas off eBay, from a seller that I was able to negotiate buying at close to retail price.

Berry Princess
12-10-2018, 09:18 PM
Yes you get a discount on D&B purses.
A few years ago they introduced the original Haunted Mansion Dooney purse that was only available in the parks. (Not at the Disney Store) They ended up only selling them at the Vault 28 location. We checked there every day of every trip for 1.5 years with no success. They would tell us that we'd just have to show up at the store opening to see if they received any. We did just that and were always told either they didn't get any that day, or just sold the last one. They wouldn't answer their phone, or return the messages we left. They would not put you on a wait list or even call you when they received stock. Meanwhile, they are showing up in numbers on eBay for way more than retail price, and most of the seller's locations were in SoCal. (A few in Florida) My wife finally got discouraged and gave up. I ended up buying her one for Christmas off eBay, from a seller that I was able to negotiate buying at close to retail price.

I remember seeing posts on different forums from many that couldn't get the HM Dooneys. I also remember when they sold the 60th Dooney...that same day they came out there was a seller on ebay that had a picture in their auction and it was a big stack of the purses. All the different kinds of purses with the one being sold in the front. I can imagine there was many disappointed guests during that time. Glad you were able to get it close to retail for her. Its a shame you had to go that way and couldn't do it at the parks but I am sure she was beyond happy to get it.

olegc
12-10-2018, 09:44 PM
I will add that I was told a prominent Tiki Blogger and artist leave the middle of the line for this year's HBG Tiki Mug at Trader Sam's, Walk up to the selling table, talk to a couple of managers, and walked away with several bags (maybe 6 total pieces) of mugs. Later to be painted as one of a kinds and available on the internet. I don't think he got them free - but he was able to forgo the long multi-hour line. I dont know if it fit the reseller issue - but it does go to the exclusivity argument as well as the fairness angle (only two per person). I can only surmise it was who he was and his relationship with management.

Berry Princess
12-10-2018, 10:39 PM
I will add that I was told a prominent Tiki Blogger and artist leave the middle of the line for this year's HBG Tiki Mug at Trader Sam's, Walk up to the selling table, talk to a couple of managers, and walked away with several bags (maybe 6 total pieces) of mugs. Later to be painted as one of a kinds and available on the internet. I don't think he got them free - but he was able to forgo the long multi-hour line. I dont know if it fit the reseller issue - but it does go to the exclusivity argument as well as the fairness angle (only two per person). I can only surmise it was who he was and his relationship with management.

I can imagine those that saw that and possibly heard the conversation or knew who this person was, were not happy at all. I would hope that those that see things like this would speak up. Take names of those Cast Members working with the person and let management( or their bosses) know. I don't care if the person was repainting them or not...that person cut ahead of who knows how many because they felt they were more important then the rest and shouldn't have to wait. Then to get more then the limit and to resell. Even if they are repainted they still took extras that some others could have had a chance to buy for their own collection. So yea, this fits the resellers when they are doing such things. Even worse is how they did it.

cstephens
12-11-2018, 11:01 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if they have had more complaints on items (limited and open) sold out to fast for them to have a chance at buying just one so Disney is needing to really look at this for when Star Wars opens and get as much a handle on it as they can.

I honestly don't think Disney cares all that much about who buys the product, as long as it's bought. This has been going on for YEARS. I was there during the main pin craze, and when they first started putting limits on some pins, the limit was 25. Ummmm, might as well not have a limit in that case. And they didn't manage things very well either. There was one very limited pin for which they gave out vouchers - I think there were maybe 200 pins? They told us that having a voucher meant we were entitled and guaranteed to be able to buy one of those pins. Except, they didn't tell the cashiers that, who thought the voucher meant you could buy 2 pins. So for the first however many customers, they let them buy 2 pins each. It wasn't until a manager caught it that they then started only allowing 1 pin per voucher. But they'd already given away all the vouchers, and that meant that some people in the back of the line who had vouchers weren't going to be able to buy a pin because of the initial mix-up. There were many people who it seemed pretty clear were buying pins for retail side businesses, and there were huge complaints from people who just wanted to buy pins for themselves. And Disney did nothing for a very long time about implementing any limits. And even when they did start issuing wristbands, people found ways to get around that. We'd always shake our heads as we were in line at some stupid early hour to buy pins, and there were people in line with children as young as probably 1 or 2 who had wristbands, so they could buy more pins.



The article even had one person say she has seen it happen where a reseller has walked to the back of the line after buying items to resell them to those in the back. Which really should have been reported (if it wasn't and I hope it was) to a cast member.

If they're not using any kind of discount to make the purchase, do we know that re-selling it to people at the back of the line is against some kind of terms of service?



They would not put you on a wait list or even call you when they received stock. Meanwhile, they are showing up in numbers on eBay for way more than retail price, and most of the seller's locations were in SoCal. (A few in Florida) My wife finally got discouraged and gave up. I ended up buying her one for Christmas off eBay, from a seller that I was able to negotiate buying at close to retail price.

I would not expect a store at Disneyland (or Downtown Disney) to have a wait list or to call anyone when stock was brought in. They don't hold things for anyone. First come, first served, and yeah, it sucks that retailers and such employ people to be the first to check at stores. It's kind of what happened with concert tickets back in the day.

The only way that ebay and other sellers will stop doing it is if it's not profitable. As long as people are willing to buy from them, they will continue.



I remember seeing posts on different forums from many that couldn't get the HM Dooneys. I also remember when they sold the 60th Dooney...that same day they came out there was a seller on ebay that had a picture in their auction and it was a big stack of the purses. All the different kinds of purses with the one being sold in the front.

Back when they used to do special events that included merchandise (like the Haunted Mansion Holiday events), you would see advertisements for items being offered as part of the event even before the events were held. The seller was counting on being able to get some of the items through the random selection process being used when people wanted to buy limited edition items. Because you had to be an event attendee to purchase the items, it was pretty well known that some would sign up for the cheapest attendance package possible just so they would have access to the merchandise. I've heard that people did that for some of the runDisney races as well, since there were some items that were available either only through pre-order, or some would sell out before the actual expo.



I will add that I was told a prominent Tiki Blogger and artist leave the middle of the line for this year's HBG Tiki Mug at Trader Sam's, Walk up to the selling table, talk to a couple of managers, and walked away with several bags (maybe 6 total pieces) of mugs.

I would want to know if the person who told you that actually saw it happen or at least knew very well the person who actually saw it happen. I'm not saying special things don't happen - they always do - but that seems more blatant and obvious than I would expect.

Berry Princess
12-11-2018, 11:38 AM
If they're not using any kind of discount to make the purchase, do we know that re-selling it to people at the back of the line is against some kind of terms of service?

I would think that if someone was doing this that it would be against rules in general. Sort of like doing business on Disney's property. There are those that have been caught in the past offering services on their property with no permission to do so and were banned when caught. So discount or not on the items, if one was to try to sell items to people at the back of the line, and not at cost, then I would think Disney could escort them out of there and put a ban on them coming back for a set time (pass or not).

I remember the pin crazy as well. We were not into that at all. If we saw pins we liked we might pick ones up but we were not like many out there. This is where Disney should have started putting the foot down on the APers that were reselling and breaking the rules of the contract...of course it was different people in charge in those days too. I do remember I was pregnant with our 2nd son and took my oldest, who was about 3 1/2 yrs old at the time, on Walt's 100th birthday to Disneyland. We got there before the park opened. Well in front of us was a group of about 5. The lady adult was giving the kids their passes and telling them to just run to the line and they would soon follow behind. She was making sure they each understood how many they each had to buy of the pins from that day. I was a bit disgusted with her. Wasn't shocked since it was known this was going on but it shows when you start using the kids/spouses that sometimes it isn't a bad thing if they could have put a limit of 1-2 of each per household. I have been a collector for a long time of different things and the one thing that resellers seem to never think about is that when the market is flooded with to much of an item that the price drops because most buyers will notice the amount being sold and wait for the deal to come. Sure there will always be the ones that will be want an item and not care of the cost as well but most will wait it out if they go this route to buy something.

I've always wondered how much is it really worth it in the end with paying to get in special events or runDisney just to buy merchandise to resell. With some of those special events having different levels it also was giving different merchandise the more you paid. I am sure many made a profit but it seems more work then it really is worth in the end. It also took spots away from someone that wanted items for them self or to be part of a run.

Like I said I think Disney wants a handle on it now because of Star Wars land. I know I wouldn't want to be the one to deal with angry die hard Star Wars fans. LOL

GrumpyGoofyGuy
12-11-2018, 11:52 AM
I would not expect a store at Disneyland (or Downtown Disney) to have a wait list or to call anyone when stock was brought in. They don't hold things for anyone. First come, first served, and yeah, it sucks that retailers and such employ people to be the first to check at stores. It's kind of what happened with concert tickets back in the day.

It just felt to us that the employees were either buying the purses they received themselves to resell online, or holding them for their friends that were doing so. Maybe that wasn't what was really going on, but is sure felt that way.

olegc
12-11-2018, 01:07 PM
I would want to know if the person who told you that actually saw it happen or at least knew very well the person who actually saw it happen. I'm not saying special things don't happen - they always do - but that seems more blatant and obvious than I would expect.

2 gents behind me in line noted that Faust, an artist, was well back. They then stated he made the move from the area between Frontier Tower and Adventure Tower and made his way to the table. Then he walked away with multiple bags after a discussion with staff at the table. They claimed they saw him do this - so I can only go on that. When I hit the table there were cast members in management mode (nice suits not just shirts and ties) assisting with the handouts and process. And I know what you mean about special things happen - but it seems hypocritical to publicly make statements about process and procedures and then provide an alternative mechanism in the open.