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innerSpaceman
10-17-2001, 03:18 PM
What do you think of the new Abe show?

Allow me to apologize in advance if this is a thread that has been covered before - I am revisting the pad after a long hiatus and I may have missed much. My bad. Still, I'd like to generate opinions on the new show (Lord knows I sure have one).

Let me first extend sincere thanks to DisneylandKid and to Disneylove for their threads on compliments for Disneyland and DCA. We can get too mired in complaints (there sure is enough material for that nowadays), but we shouldn't loose sight of our common love for Disneyland.

I'll get things going by stating that I think the new show stinks. While I'm glad that Honest Abe could be saved from the robot scrap heap, I have real problems with the new show. It can't decide whether it's broad comedy or patriotic tribute, and I don't think it manages to juggle both genres well at all. I think, in fact, that the comedic elements completely overshadow the seriousness of the subject. I don't mean it should be dry and dull, but I actually found it to be quite disrespectful. Most of all, though, the illusion of AudioAnimatronicAbe being a real flesh and blood president was completely shattered by the use of headphones. Fake person with patently fake sound not even seeming to issue from the fake person equals absolutely no suspension of disbelief.

That's my obnoxious opinion. What do YOU think?

MickeyD
10-17-2001, 03:26 PM
I don't really care for it either. I'd stop short of saying he's rolling over in his grave, but, it's WAY too gimmicky. I really think they should scrap the whole haircut/whispering thing. I still think the AA is really cool, though.

Ghoulish Delight
10-17-2001, 03:33 PM
I'm mixed. What they do with the headphones is hokey, however the I like the technology. The 3d sound is very well done. Perhaps it belongs elsewhere, for instance in a 3D movie style attraction.

The only thing that really bugs me about it is that the sound has become the focus. It's not about Abe anymore. It's about the nifty headphones. It's 10 minutes of the only mildly engaging backstory, for a two second, "look it's Abe." It really changed the feal and I agree that having his voice in your ears instead of in front of you is a bad idea.

Morrigoon
10-17-2001, 03:43 PM
The structure of the show, by which I mean the development of an actual storyline, I like. The technology is appreciated by many guests. HOWEVER, it *is* distracting having Abe Lincoln whisper sweet nothings in my ear, or hearing heavy breathing when I'm trying to listen to Abe speak. I would like to abandon the whole headphone thing and have it use speakers like before, OR, offer every other show with the headphones (or something like that). The haircut is a waste of time. Now, if the "barber" was dispensing gossip, telling me something significant about Abe, instead of talking about himself, that might make it work. If they lose the whispering in my ear, and the only "gimmick" left was the cutting hair over my ears, I would probably be okay with that because the audience really seems to enjoy that trick. But they would HAVE to lose the whispering and the heavy breathing, it's really......invasive. Isn't it?

JeffG
10-17-2001, 04:04 PM
Instead of re-posting my review, here is a link to it in the thread from last July:

http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=13581#post13581


-Jeff

thamnarestan
10-17-2001, 07:38 PM
I would prefer the Lincoln attraction to be removed altogether. Abraham Lincoln was a terrible man and an even worse President whose dictatorial reign should certainly not be celebrated.

WizKidRyan
10-17-2001, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by thamnarestan
I would prefer the Lincoln attraction to be removed altogether. Abraham Lincoln was a terrible man and an even worse President whose dictatorial reign should certainly not be celebrated.

Exscuse me but....
I will not even say what I wish to say because A) this is a family site and B) I don't want to start a flame war

- Ryan

cstephens
10-17-2001, 09:48 PM
Please, not yet another thread derailed by this person's @*%#P comments.

MickeyD
10-17-2001, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by cstephens
Please, not yet another thread derailed by this person's @*%#P comments.

You have to ask yourself if this is his sole purpose in posting. I suggest using the "ignore list" in your profile.

BiggJakeMoney
10-17-2001, 10:02 PM
Whew....thamnarestan's post: the absolute definition of coming WAAAAY out of left field.

Let's not dignify that remark with any sort answering response, shall we?

-BJM

Nigel2
10-17-2001, 10:08 PM
People you do realize that you can take the headphones off during AA Abe's part right? Plus as it was said this version is much closer to Walts original idea (probably lacking the phones though)

PhilMP
10-17-2001, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by thamnarestan
I would prefer the Lincoln attraction to be removed altogether. Abraham Lincoln was a terrible man and an even worse President whose dictatorial reign should certainly not be celebrated.

You're right!! President Lincoln was a terrible man, he ended slavery!!! <extremely sarcastic for your information>

There, that's all I needed to say.

Phil

Morrigoon
10-17-2001, 10:47 PM
cstephens: the word is asinine :)

USofA
10-18-2001, 12:10 AM
Though I have to say that I have almost exclusivly disagreed with thamnarestan in the past, he does have some points. And they are very valid at this momment in time. Abraham Lincoln did some things that would not be (hopefully) allowed at this time. He suspended constitutional rights of Americans. By suspending the right of habius corpus anyone could be arrested and detained with out any due process. All because we were at war with ourselves. I am sorry, I know that he ended slavery in the Southern states (too little, too late), but that alone does not mean that he should be worshipped like he is.

EandCDad
10-18-2001, 07:08 AM
Since this is supposed to be a thread about the attraction not the relative merits of one of our greatest Presidents, I'll stick to the show. I liked it alot. I know, I'm letting the dazzle of technology overshadow what is really some cornball dialogue but I thought the mix worked fine. I do chuckle when Lincoln tells me that "you muuuuuuuuuuuuust live."

side note: We have a set of fan cards with all the Presidents on them. My four year old asked me where President James Cunningham was. I don't think she totally got the show.

Upanova
10-18-2001, 08:20 AM
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

I do like the "Hippie" sunglasses look....

Just my $.02.

Upanova

thamnarestan
10-18-2001, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by BiggJakeMoney
Whew....thamnarestan's post: the absolute definition of coming WAAAAY out of left field.

Let's not dignify that remark with any sort answering response, shall we?


Well, I didn't want to debate this subject on this board, either, and I still don't, so I'll just post this link here and y'all can read up on the subject yourselves. I think you'll find that my position makes a lot of sense.

http://www.mises.org/misesreview_detail.asp?control=163

Enjoy!

thamnarestan
10-18-2001, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by Morrigoon
cstephens: the word is asinine :)

Well why don't you read this article and then tell me what you think. I don't expect people to be very accepting of my position, because most of you have been brainwashed by our socialist public education system, which refuses to tell the real story of the Civil War. But I hope you'll at least read this book review, and mabye check the book itself out at the library.

You know, Charles Dickins, Lord Acton, Edgar Lee Masters, and many more all believed that the South was right and that Lincoln was a terrible president and dictator.

thamnarestan
10-18-2001, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by USofA
Though I have to say that I have almost exclusivly disagreed with thamnarestan in the past, he does have some points. And they are very valid at this momment in time. Abraham Lincoln did some things that would not be (hopefully) allowed at this time. He suspended constitutional rights of Americans. By suspending the right of habius corpus anyone could be arrested and detained with out any due process. All because we were at war with ourselves. I am sorry, I know that he ended slavery in the Southern states (too little, too late), but that alone does not mean that he should be worshipped like he is.

Thank you.

But did he even end slavery? Sure, he issued his Emancipation Fiat, but slavery was still legal in many states until CONGRESS passed the 13th Amendment and forced the Southern states to ratify it.

Still, one way or another, the Civil War resulted in the abolition of slavery. But it also killed 558,000 men, wounded countless others, destroyed private property, suppressed civil liberties, and set the foundation for big government. Every other country on the American continents abolished slavery peacefully. We could have found a way.

And regarding the show- I always laugh when Lincoln pretends to be upset with the loss of life in the war. That evil dictator could have ended the war anytime he wanted, but instead he killed those half million men to "save the Union" or free the Southern black people he hated so much (yes, Lincoln was a racist-- he once said "there is no difference between hogs and negroes").

(sorry, I said I didn't want to debate this subject, but I guess I changed my mind.)

EandCDad
10-18-2001, 08:57 AM
Does anyone else like the fact that they changed from an amalgimation of speeches to just the Gettysburg address. I like the change, it seems to flow a bit better because the words were actually intended to be said at the same time.

lisap
10-18-2001, 09:02 AM
I was not sure at first, but the more I hear it, the more I like it. I always try to count the ten sentences in the address. Them's some long sentences ;)

innerSpaceman
10-18-2001, 09:55 AM
Nigel2: is that right about the sound being in the auditorium during Lincoln's speech? I've only been to the revamped attraction once (I hate it), and the worst thing about it for me was, in taking the headphones off during Abe's part, there was no sound in the theater, only through the headphones. If my experience was an anamoly, then my opinion of the show has increased a notch (but since most people won't test that by removing the headphones, the illusion of life will still be lost).

As for the Gettysburg address vs. the medley of other speeches, I must say I prefer the former. As someone's very astute prior post pointed out, the collection of speech's really provided a flavor of Lincoln's philosophys. The Gettysburg address is really overrated anyway, and with the completely silly way they now represent the civil war, it's less meaningful in the Disneyland context than anywhere else the speech has ever been presented (and as it's most likely the most famous speech of all time, that's saying a lot). Also, while it may not be practical to keep Royal Dano's voice, someone with some emotive speaking ability would have been nice. The speech as it now stands is a snore.

Lastly, although this thread was not "designed" to discuss more than the show, tangents relating to Lincoln the man are completely appropriate, so let's not necessarily phase out any depate on that subject. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion - that's what this whole Pad forum is about. Very, very briefly: Lincoln was hardly a perfect man or a perfect leader - just better than the vast majority. IMHO.

lisap
10-18-2001, 10:26 AM
While Royal Dano's interpretation was very good, the recording sounded like some of my really old LP albums, skips and all. The new voice will take some getting used to, but in time we will.

I appreciate the fact that they tried. I really appreciate the fact they even kept the attraction, and didn't turn it into a corporate lunchroom.

BiggJakeMoney
10-18-2001, 10:34 AM
By reading a few of the posts here, it's good to know that I'm not the only one royally creeped out by having a grown man whispering and breathing hard into my ear.

First time I heard that, man, I almost flung the headphones into the first row. Now I just enjoy the looks on my friends faces when it happens.

-BJM

Morrigoon
10-18-2001, 10:40 AM
Lincoln did some really great things in his life. He overcame his poor upbringing through self-education to become not only a successful lawyer, but the president of the country. He also did some really awful things. He held opinions which were typical of men of his time, which, by today's standards would put him in a marginalized political minority.

So okay, the man couldn't cross a lake without getting his feet wet. This surprises you?

Walt was also a man of his time and did and said things that, while archaic to our generation were rather forward thinking in his day. So shall we call him evil too? I think not. He was a product of his time. He did what he could within the understanding of men of his time to forward our culture, helping bring us to the point at which we now stand, looking back and mocking the efforts of great men such as him and Abraham Lincoln.

While we're on the subject of removing pedestals, would you like to discuss how many of our founding fathers owned slaves? Should we ignore the achievements of George Washington, the man who led the Continental Army and freed us of tyrannical British rule because he owned slaves? The man's not perfect! Owning slaves, a horrific proposition to the modern American, was not only accepted, but expected. You cannot expect EVERY noteworth person from the past to be a raging liberal of their time. Lucky the few who meet up to our current standards, but I feel we must make allowances for the fact that it was a DIFFERENT WORLD back then. They may look evil to your current thinking, but in their time they were the forward thinking ones who helped us arrive at our current understanding. They LAID THE BASIS of our society's openness and freedom today.

Nobody's perfect. I've done some stupid things in my time that have hurt people. So has Thamnarestan. Weigh a man's good against his bad, but do not discount the good just because the bad exists.

And I find it rather amusing that certain people (I will not name them so as to avoid making a personal attack) can dislike someone because of their prejudices 180 years ago. Especially when certain people devote pages and pages to their current prejudices. But I'd better stop now before I take this too far.