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DisneyDustin22
03-17-2004, 02:48 PM
So first off, we all know this is a message board. Opinions are made based of individual beliefs and thoughts. Everyone has the right to speak their mind about anything. With that said, I'm prepared for the lashing I will receieve, not from all of you, but most, of the following post. But I do stand my ground as the minority on this topic and hopefully my followers will do the same =) and so...

Most agree that DCA is in the gutter. Has been in the gutter since day one and most think it will always stay in the gutter. Yes, it lacks what DL holds,whether it be attractions, theming, etc. DCA is just a baby still. It has a enormous pair of shoes to fill, growing up in the shadow of DL. And with that note, you people cannot continue to compare DL and the resort to when it was 20+ years ago.

A LOT has changed since then. "DL was much cleaner and better kept up 20 years ago..." No, really? Of course it was, the park was no where near the size it is today. NOR, did it have a whole nother theme park to employ workers. Now I know what youre going to say, "well Disney has the money, they just cut costs." Well yes, Disney does have the money, and do they cut costs? Sometimes. Most of the time. Whichever. It would be a lot different if the demand from the public wasn't as high as it is. Everyone complains about how there arent enough attractions. Show me another theme park that has the number of rides, (counting everything. not just e-tix) that DL / DCA does. DL answers the call to the public by adding as much as it can, be it rides, shows, or even a shop.

What you have to understand is, a lot of us Disney goers, are spoiled beyond belief. Dont sit there and tell me youre not because you are. You know you are. Youre friends know you are. They talk about you behind your back. =) But its not bad. Its just we have a love for a certain place and we like to flaunt it. Whether its going every other day, every weekend, EVERY day, doesnt matter. THe average family in america takes what, 1...2 vacations a year? of those two, 1 might be to a theme park. the other, camping or some other outdoor activity. They dont have the luxury of going to DL every day of the year. Staying in the "know" with the park. So what do they feel when they come here? Joy, fun, happiness, they wait in long lines, dotn know the "ins' of fastpass. They have fun.

Us, we wont accept anything longer than a 10min wait, we can only go on Pirates with a fastpass, stopping along the way in to get another, smirking at the "tourists" standing in line, saying to ourselves, "they dont know what theyre doing". Its not a bad thing. It makes us unique. BUt the point Im trying to make here is, DL is always going to grow, and change, AND need constant work and repair. Its almost 50 years old. Show me something that old and in perfect condition. Car, home, person, anything! DCA is just a kid, its growing, its going to experience ups and downs, it needs to breathe, were not givign it a chance. WHats going to happen when TOT opens in may? For so long all weve done is cry, "we need another ride. we need another ride." Whats going to happen when you go to DCA to ride it? Youll get in, critique the que, length of ride, and lack of whatever. Get off, walk down the street and say, "we need another ride. we need another ride!"

20 years ago, people LOVED coming to DL b/c it was a chance to get away, they could forget their outside world and for a day, or however long, be young again, and just have fun. TOday, its still the same thing, we use DL to get away and enjoy ourselves, but we dont leave anymore talking about how much fun we had, we leave complaining about the chipped paint in the tip top corner of a building you would only notice bc we walk past it 10,000 times a year. Paint will chip, rides will break down, pavement will need to be repaved, costs will be cut to accomodate demand, al these things will continue to occurr. But in 20 years, will we still be saying, DCA sucks, I cant believe they havent built a parking lot there yet. No, when its mature and able to stand up to its big brother across the way, You all, myself included, will be on the bandwagon, enjoying a mouseplanet get together, watching the fireworks, overlooking the Paradise Pier.

All Im saying is you never know, things dont happen instantly, they take time. And a lot of patience. Alright, I've strapped on the pads, lets hear your feedback!

Andrew
03-17-2004, 02:56 PM
I only have one, and it's unrelated to the point you were making. If you happen to catch this within the 30-minute editing window, you may wish to edit your post, breaking it up into readable paragraphs.

I know I'm not the only one who will generally skip reading solid blocks of text like the one you posted.

Nothing personal, of course.

3894
03-17-2004, 03:04 PM
Its almost 50 years old. Show me something that old and in perfect condition. Car, home, person, anything!



Right here, baby, right here.

Am, too.

sediment
03-17-2004, 03:07 PM
I disagree. DCA is not a Disney theme park. It's an Eisner theme park. Until major changes occur, I do not foresee this ever occurring, it will not be a Disney theme park.
(My personal idea: make it the theme a parody of California.)

And what do many people do, when given the choice between the two parks? They go to DL. Why? Because it's a better value for the money AND time. Why do we complain? Because it was a huge waste of money, based on a poor theme, without a base infrastructure for easy modification. They saved money, in order to never get a return.
In Disney legend John Hench's words: "I liked it as a parking lot better."

ECA (Eisner's California Adventure) will never be embraced. And it's not just us over-informed types, either.

What DCA really needs is nobody going to it. That will wake up the suits and put the park back in the Imagineers' hands.

Cancer Norm
03-17-2004, 03:13 PM
Disneydustin22: I'm trying to understand what you are trying to say in that looong post. Is this right? ...DCA is still young, let it grow and it will get better like DL?

I don't agree. As amusement parks go DL was state of the art at day one and kept on growing. It still is the best. DCA sux and will continue to be a major disappointment until it's completely revamped. Aside from a few rides Soarin', GRR, California Screaming, and now TOT, DCA needs to be blown up and redone. They built a park on the cheap, thinking the masses would be suckers and go for it. If I want to go on a carnival ride or arcade game I can go to the OC or LA County Fair or visit a carnival in a mall parking lot!

Not Afraid
03-17-2004, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by DisneyDustin22
But in 20 years, will we still be saying, DCA sucks, I cant believe they havent built a parking lot there yet.

Only Madam Leota Knows. The rest of us just "think".

DisneyDustin22
03-17-2004, 03:22 PM
Mr Zogs youre missing the point. And that is, DCA is a work in progress. I'm sure 50 years ago there was a group of people somewhere who said, a theme park based off a talking mouse? Like that will ever work.

CarlieB
03-17-2004, 03:26 PM
I think there is hope for DCA. It has some good rides (GRR, Soarin', Screamin' and hopefully, ToT). It just needs some more:)

TwinGemII
03-17-2004, 03:45 PM
I have to agree with DisneyDustin and CarlieB, maybe I'm of the select few....

If Disney Execs built a park exactly like DL... there's no reason to go....we needed something different...

Mr. Zogs- Try and compare DCA to amusement parks in SoCal like Magic Mtn or Universal or anything for that matter. Those aren't worth the money they ask for!

DCA is clean first off, no offense but I won't even sit on a bench in one of the other theme parks b.c. I feel like I'm going to catch something. Who really goes to the LA County Fair and feels clean? Or any Carnival for that matter. YUCK.

DCA has rides for ALL AGES, unlike other theme parks where your kids can't even get on one ride but have to pay full price to get in. It has amazing shows, if you've even taken the time to step into one. And a theme like no other park. For instance... would I go to Santa Monica Pier or DCA and play the same games? I would go to DCA... why... cause of the people, the cleanliness, the safety and the overall atmosphere. So- for $47 (if you're a tourist) you'd see stage performances that are just beautiful, good food and rides for all ages!!!!

SEDIMENT- I don't think this is an "EISNER" park. And trust me... I'm one of the first people to be angry at him for his OVERALL performance in the last few years. I think DCA was an attempt to try something new. DL doesn't have the shows and the variety of games that DCA does... What if everything in DCA was built around DL in the park, so one admission for everything? Would you still be complaining that "geez there's nothing to do at DCA and it's a horrible stupid place?" Yes, most likely.

So you hate DCA? But, ask yourself, could anything REALLY, TRULY be compared to Disney Land? No absolutely not... WHY? b.c. Disney is a true Legacy. A Passion for most of us like no other. An addiction for some of us.

DCA is just a baby and if given a chance, babies grow to be beautiful things. Don't compare it to DL cause we all know that's not a fair comparison. Nothing compares to it... not even close.

I know I didn't say everything I wanted to.....

Cancer Norm
03-17-2004, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by DisneyDustin22
Mr Zogs youre missing the point. And that is, DCA is a work in progress. I'm sure 50 years ago there was a group of people somewhere who said, a theme park based off a talking mouse? Like that will ever work.

Disneyland is and original idea. DCA is NOT! It is an expensive, glorified mall parking lot carnival. Nothing original about that. ...... Their original idea of a Epcot in the west (WESCOT) was a fantastic idea! That, I would have loved and embraced...But NO, they did something on the cheap.

Cancer Norm
03-17-2004, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by TwingemII
Mr. Zogs- Try and compare DCA to amusement parks in SoCal like Magic Mtn or Universal or anything for that matter. Those aren't worth the money they ask for!

Magic Mountain, Universal Studios, Knott's are great places I love to visit. Are they expensive to get in? Yes. So is DCA. I go on and see everything in DCA in LESS than a day there. The same cannot be said for DL. Magic Mtn, Knott's, or Universal.

I'm sorry. Carnivals do not excite me.

DisneyDustin22
03-17-2004, 04:02 PM
So then how is WESCOT, an original idea? Copyin a version of Epcot? sounds original to me. What is original anymore? Basically nothing. DCA was new and different. Cant hate new and different. Unless your old fashioned.

kijay
03-17-2004, 04:13 PM
I guess I'm in the minority when I say that I enjoyed my visits to DCA, and am looking forward to ToT opening. One cannot look at DCA and compare it to Dland. It just doesn't hold up to the comparison, but what would? Is it marketed right? No. Is the theme the best? Probably not. But take it for what it is, and what it can be, and gain an appreciation for this park. I don't believe anything that was put there would satisfy the masses. I honestly think DCA should have a lower admission than Dland, because they are honestly not the same. I tend to think of it as an extension, not competition to Dland. Nothing will ever be as good as the original. Nothing.:p

TwinGemII
03-17-2004, 04:15 PM
here here to Kijay!!! :D

Cancer Norm
03-17-2004, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by DisneyDustin22
So then how is WESCOT, an original idea? Copyin a version of Epcot?

Your right Disney Dustin. It's not original. But I would go to a WESCOT and often. And I suspect a great many others would too. More than are going to DCA.

Why aren't these people (disney) coming to me and asking me what to do? I know what to do!

sediment
03-17-2004, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by TwinGemII
SEDIMENT- I don't think this is an "EISNER" park. And trust me... I'm one of the first people to be angry at him for his OVERALL performance in the last few years. I think DCA was an attempt to try something new. DL doesn't have the shows and the variety of games that DCA does... What if everything in DCA was built around DL in the park, so one admission for everything? Would you still be complaining that "geez there's nothing to do at DCA and it's a horrible stupid place?" Yes, most likely.

So you hate DCA? But, ask yourself, could anything REALLY, TRULY be compared to Disney Land? No absolutely not... WHY? b.c. Disney is a true Legacy. A Passion for most of us like no other. An addiction for some of us.

DCA is just a baby and if given a chance, babies grow to be beautiful things. Don't compare it to DL cause we all know that's not a fair comparison. Nothing compares to it... not even close.

1. It is a failed attempt at something new. The "new" part is: let's have a bad theme, a bad layout, a truly awful dark ride, a few not-new attractions, a few more attractions that don't attract (unless you're hungry for a tortilla), a few store-bought rides, a mild coaster, a big pond without a reason to exist, a few expensive restaurants sponsored by outside interests,... And let's market it to death, because that's our strength (nowadays).
2. I wish you not to put words in my mouth. To append DCA onto D-Land would provide the desired market price point for it.
3. Again, I wish you not to put words into my mouth. I do not "hate" DCA. I'd rather not enter DCA. I've been, and I've done just about everything, and for the most part, none of these attractions are going to change much the next time I go. It's overpriced, and not enough DCA-paying customers enter to make up for the investment (the cost of building and maintaining it). Its existence sucks money out of D-Land, which, as was said in many places here, needs the upkeep as it grows older.
4. I would have preferred a more Disneyified Land. Something that immerses me. Takes me away. Forget my troubles. It just doesn't do that. You know what DCA really needs? It needs to be AWAY from Disneyland. Just like at WDW, it should be difficult, but not impossible, to go to a more preferred theme park.
5. Some babies turn out ugly. DCA could be a serial killer with the parent he currently has (and of course the tweaked genes -- not only the parent, you know).
6. Lastly, I've provided my ideas for a better DCA. I don't like complaining without a solution. Has anyone important in Disney listened to my iudeas? No! Have I published them anywhere near a Disney executive? No! I only make up the ideas. I'm not going to waste time marketing them.

sediment
03-17-2004, 04:56 PM
Is it me, or do we spend an awful lot of time debating this topic? Like once every other month or so.

RickW
03-17-2004, 05:01 PM
Like it or not, DCA was the reason that my partner and I visited the Resort after being away for nearly a decade. We were enchanted by DCA and realized that we could enjoy the Resort as adults in our early 50's. We are now in our third year as AP holders and we've dropped thousands of bucks at the Resort in the last few years.

We generally visit DCA first and then make our way over to DL. We enjoy DCA for what it is and DL for what it is. Together the two parks plus Downtown Disney make for a very satisfying day off. Attractive enough that we visit about once a month.

Our DLR ritual is about to change since the great-nephews and -nieces are growing old enough to visit DL with their uncles. But make no mistake - our recent patronage of the DLR simply would not have happened without DCA.

Not Afraid
03-17-2004, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Zogs
Your right Disney Dustin. It's not original. But I would go to a WESCOT and often. And I suspect a great many others would too. More than are going to DCA.

Why aren't these people (disney) coming to me and asking me what to do? I know what to do!


Yes. Westcot would've been nice. Disney Seas IS nice. It's not like DIsney was fresh out of good ideas at the time they coughed up DCA. It STILL makes me mad that we got the runt of the litter.

Not Afraid
03-17-2004, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by sediment
Is it me, or do we spend an awful lot of time debating this topic? Like once every other month or so.

Yeah. I think this is my 6th or 7th time. Each time I SWEAR I will not post again. Doesn't happen. I just get more snide as time goes on.;)

innerSpaceman
03-17-2004, 08:09 PM
Getting rid of the turnstyle bag check was a step forward; now all they have to do is stop the fraud of the AP check and the fact of DCA simply being the "Californialand" of Disneyland will be a fait accompli.

DCA is just fine now that I think of it as just another land. It's better than Tomorrowland with way more attractions, much roomier than Adventureland, just as far away as ToonTown, and so what if it's not as good as the remaining lands?

Andrew
03-17-2004, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
now all they have to do is stop the fraud of the AP check and the fact of DCA simply being the "Californialand" of Disneyland will be a fait accompli. Fraud? I don't get it.

bakerbunny
03-18-2004, 10:26 AM
Yes, what fraud?
I am an AP, they scan my passport everytime I enter either park, they even take it from me to look at when issuing my parking ticket.

If you mean the AP program in general as fraud, yes it probably could be better, but it needs to stay. (I won't post my reasons here as it is off topic).

As far as DCA goes, I enjoyed it for what it is: a Date Park.
When it was first built Eisner and Pressler both were quoted as saying that there would be no DISNEY characters.

I will go back. Great food. Too bad, all the good vendors have changed hands.

Irish Badger
03-18-2004, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
Getting rid of the turnstyle bag check was a step forward; now all they have to do is stop the fraud of the AP check

Fraud??
Innerspace I think you kind of thru everyone off there!

Do you mean that AP should not have thier bags checked?

Or do you mean that the ap card/picture shouldn't be checked?

What exactly was the jist of that? :confused:

Quinten27
03-19-2004, 11:58 AM
To throw in my 2 cents......I had no complaints about DCA, mostly because I went there without any expectations. I will admit, admission costs are not a factor to me, since I had Park Hoppers, it was like DCA admission was pretty much free. DCA was simply a bonus to Disneyland. Like some of the others have said, just consider it another land at Disneyland. It may not be the best park around, but my kids loved spending the day there. They had much more fun at DCA than they would have had sitting in a parking lot all day, which is what DCA used to be.

So who really thinks that 20 plus attractions, borrowed or not, is a better than nothing?

And for those who say DCA is a 1/2 day park, it's obvious that you must live in CA. DCA is more for guests like me that come from out of state. I find it nice to be able to "experience" California with out having to drive from one end of the state to the other. I know, I know, it isn't the real California experience, but like I said before, it is better than nothing.

And can anyone tell me how it is possible to experience ALL the rides and shows in DCA in one day?

With 32 attractions and 7 different shows, that is a lot to fit into one day, especially when you have little ones with you. I know I spent a full day there and never even made it to Hollywood Backlot.

OK, to end my post, yeah, most of you are spoiled. I just wish I was spoiled too! Try living in Alaska where the closest thing to a theme park is either the zoo or an indoor water park with 2 slides. I'd give my left arm to have even something like DCA in my neck of the woods.

Yes DCA may not be DL, but it is much more fun than a parking lot.