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nixsys
10-16-2001, 02:33 PM
Dearest Cynthia –

I could not be more pleased with your decision to abrogate
the ‘Morning Magic’ promotion. The program was patently unfair
to general public ticket-holders and smacks of elitism (which really
chaps myass). Let me relate this little story to you… Some years
back, I took Nicholas to the park. We arrived early and were first
in line! Before entering the park, cast members announced that
due to ‘Morning Madness’ there was ALREADY A ONE-HOUR
WAITING LINE for Rocket Rods. The look of disappointment
on my grandson’s face is one I’ll not soon forget.

You did the right thing. Now about this AP foolishness. . .

Affectionately,
- Nixsys

TakeMe2Disneyland
10-16-2001, 03:10 PM
Dear Cynthia,

I, too, laud your discontinuation of "Early Entry."

In the past, we've stayed exclusively at Disney-owned properties in order to obtain this privilege. Our last 7-night stay at the Disneyland Hotel cost over $3,400.00, not incuding food and other incidentals.

It's a sure bet that we won't find it necessary to stay on-property after "Early Entry" is discontinued. The savings for us could be huge.

Sincerely,
TM2D

SimpTwister
10-16-2001, 03:16 PM
I can't figure out whether TM2D is sincere, or using a bit of reverse psychology... ;)

tjrj
10-17-2001, 07:07 AM
I called WD travel company on Monday after reading Al's DIG update. I was very, very upset that Early Entry would be discontinued-it's one of the main reasons we are staying on-property in December. The reservationist said that I was the 2nd call he'd had that morning-and it was only a little after 8am here-when the update is usually posted. I was told that neither he nor his supervisor have any information whatsoever that Early Entry was being cancelled. Early Entry is still listed on the 2002 travel information he said. Magic Morning is the breakfast part of Early Entry I was told, not Early Entry itself. I've eaten that terrible breakfast on the Tomorrowland Terrace during previous trips-no skin off my nose if it's discontinued.

Now, Early Entry is a different story-you can see so much during the uncrowded(relatively) morning-especially in the close quarters and slow loading rides of Fantasyland.

I'll keep calling reservations to keep checking if this perk will be lost too.

TakeMe2Disneyland
10-17-2001, 08:00 AM
This is what Al's update said:

"Magic Mornings, the process of letting guests staying at the Disneyland Resort Hotels and Good Neighbor Hotels into Disneyland 90 minutes early on some mornings, will be cut from the operational budget later in the year."

I assumed he was referring to "Early Entry," and inadvertently used the term "Magic Mornings." (Isn't it called "Magic Mornings" at WDW?)

momiekins
10-17-2001, 08:48 AM
tjrj

I was the first call that ther operator got monday morning about the magic morning/early entry. we are going to be at DL on sunday thru thurs. next week. and i wanted to make sure we were going to get this "perk" or they needed to replace it with something eles not just drop it and not inform me.

I am going to call again sat night to make sure all is still the same before we leave sunday.

JRob2k1
10-17-2001, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by TakeMe2Disneyland
I assumed he was referring to "Early Entry," and inadvertently used the term "Magic Mornings." (Isn't it called "Magic Mornings" at WDW?)

Early Entry = Magic Mornings!

They are just two ways to say it... Even at DL

-JRob

Cadaverous Pallor
10-17-2001, 03:49 PM
Look, if we just ignored Nixsys, he'd go away, see? He obviously doesn't care much about talking TO us, he just wants to rile us up. After this message I am saying no more to or about this guy, or in response to anything he posts. I hope you will join me. And please don't post to say you agree! ;)

MickeyD
10-17-2001, 03:55 PM
CP, I AGREE!! Just kidding. Seriously, even though s/he seems to be posting these messages in a trolling manner, some of the discussions that are popping up from them are interesting, so I say, if s/he posts something interesting, respond away. It's probably better that s/he isn't really involved in the discussions, anyway.

nixsys
10-18-2001, 11:53 AM
Dear forum members --

It was never my intent to ‘troll’ for arguments nor was I ever
arbitrarily negative. I merely spoke my mind openly and honestly,
which is the responsibility of ALL contributors to an OPEN forum.
Further, if I chose not to add to any discussion my opinions may
have initiated; this too was my prerogative. Surely one can raise
issues others disagree with, and in a manner they disagree with
a well -- otherwise your half of a conversation would consist
entirely of saying "I absolutely agree" over and over again.

It was only my intent to voice serious concerns I had regarding
serious issues, certainly not to anger anyone. If this is the case,
I sincerely apologize. This shall be my final post.

- Nixsys

JRob2k1
10-18-2001, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Cadaverous Pallor
Look, if we just ignored Nixsys, he'd go away, see? He obviously doesn't care much about talking TO us, he just wants to rile us up. After this message I am saying no more to or about this guy, or in response to anything he posts. I hope you will join me. And please don't post to say you agree! ;)

I dont see how he or she is doing anything to rile anyone up? As a matter of fact, he's pointing out some problems that make for a good discussion. There has been nothing, IMO, that has been inflamatory or mean...I agree on a lot of this stuff too, especially the DVD thread in the Entertainment section.

So i dont think there's any reason to "ignore" him...

-JRob

mspangler
10-18-2001, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by TakeMe2Disneyland

It's a sure bet that we won't find it necessary to stay on-property after "Early Entry" is discontinued. The savings for us could be huge.


Whether or not Early Entry is gone, I'll still find a reason to stay on Disney property. Sure, it costs a bit more, but I say it's worth it.

mrfantasmic
10-18-2001, 09:36 PM
Early entry was unfair to the general public, because most of us have already spent a lot of money on a passport and don't have enough dough to spend a night at the hotel. Besides, the monorail doesn't even run there anymore!

Nigel2
10-18-2001, 09:40 PM
The monorail runs to the exact same spot it always did on both ends. But at least is isn't quite as bad as universal and six flags are with their versions of the fast pass. Plus it is a kind of weak reasonsing to base weather or not you are going to stay on property. Heck when we went to WDW for a week we didn't use the magic morinings there and it was still fun.

TakeMe2Disneyland
10-19-2001, 04:59 AM
It may be a "weak reasoning" to some, but for our family, it's very, very important. Without going into the personal reasons that it works best for us to stay on-site and use Early Entry, I will simply say that it was a MAJOR factor for us.

Staying onsite is not in *most* people's budget, but, somehow, those who do it work very hard for a very long time, and we make it a priority to save for *making* it part of our budget. And, the truth is that staying on-site is "unfair to the general public" in more ways than just Early Entry. It's a wonderful and fun experience, and I wish everyone were in a position to make the choices that would allow them to do it.

dshimel
10-19-2001, 07:03 AM
Speaking of elitism, the So Ca Discount simply has to go, not to mention the multi-day tickets which unfailry favor people visitng more than one day. Then we can get rid of FASTPASS which favors people spending a whole day (vs. a couple evening hours) in the park. While we're at it, Club 33, as well as Fantasmic dessert buffet, must go. Any ride with a height requirement must be eliminated as they favor the "non-children". Then, we better get rid of all discounts and coupons as they are clearly elitist.


Fact is, life isn't fair. People that pay more will get better. If you don't like there being a line when you try to get in, pay for a way to get Early Entry. Don't pout and whine like a child. Anyone over the age of about 5 should have already accepted that life justisn't fair. Deal with it.

Disney should base he existance of Early Entry purely on economics. If the extra money they make on rooms and "good-neighbor" contracts is more than the cost of running it plus what they lose by driving off a few other guests, then they should keep it. If it costs them money, they should probably drop it.

Nfatuated
10-19-2001, 10:21 AM
I agree with dshimel. I am an AP holder and love Fast pass, and it does not bother me that someone willing to pay to stay at the resort gets in early. No one is being denied in fast pass. Everyone has an oppurtunity to use it. If you cant get out of bed or just want to go for a few hours thats your choice and with every choice there is a consequence. So quit bagging on Fastpass its a great system and it works. Magic Mornings does not give someone great advantage over anyone else. So you get an extra 90 minutes, do you want to go ride rides at 6:30 in the morning? count me out. If someone wishes to pay for it then that is their choice, a choice you could also make. If you can not afford it, then line up at 8 am and you still have the park to yourself for at least 2 hrs.

innerSpaceman
10-19-2001, 12:00 PM
"Fact is, life isn't fair. People that pay more will get better"

So says dshimel. Hardy could there be truer words. And yet hardly could there be a more egregious fact of life that one wants to leave behind when crossing that magic portal under the train tracks into Main Street USA and Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom of Disneyland.

At a theme park where you want to have people enjoy themselves into spending money freely, enlist their friends and families to come and spend money freely, and encourage them to return time and time again, spending money freely with each visit - then the rude and vulgar inequities of the class system of life must be left out of it.

Now I myself, as a local boy, stay on property once a year (for Disneyland's birthday on 7/17), but generally Magic Mornings are a boon that locals cannot pay for unless ridiculously rich enough to pay for a hotel room that they only want for the purposes of early admission to the park.

Club 33 is at least discreet, but Fantasmic balcony buffet, Magic Mornings and their like throw poor vs. rich in guest's faces (ok, let's say well-to-do vs. rich, as a day at Disneyland is far beyond the means of poor families). VIPs exist and money talks, but part of the charm of Disneyland lies, as Walt often espoused, in the fact that every guest is treated like a VIP. Blatant caste systems are terrible for guest psychology. And good guest psychology had historically been, and should be again, the brilliant way to maximize income for the park. It's a win-win situation. Early admission, fast pass, Fantasmic buffet and the like create winners and losers.

(sorry for ranting so strongly - actually Magic Mornings is fairly invisible to the average day guest. But I will always remember the morning way before the program existed, after the overnight party for the 30th birthday - we went out to the main gate to greet the folks coming in at "opening time" and the crowds that got up at dawn and trekked to Anaheim were furious that people were in the park before them.)

tjrj
10-19-2001, 04:14 PM
I have stayed both on-site and off-site and in both cases had the advantage of Early Entry. Again, without going into the whys, Early Entry makes a big difference to our family, in how much we can see, how much we enjoy our visit. Yep, 6:30 am in a theme park is EARLY. But it's pretty cool watching the sun make it's way up the sky while riding Dumbo.

What are the advantages to staying on-site, or in a package booked thru Disney Travel without Early Entry? A lanyard? A luggage tag?

stinkerbell
10-19-2001, 04:53 PM
Each time we go to DL, we get the five day passport and have had anywhere from 1-4 Early Entry days per trip, that we have paid nothing extra for and have never stayed at a DL hotel. (Purely a $ issue) Our trip next month--four day passport and one early entry day. I always cherish that quieter, extra 90 minutes. That's when we do our pictures in front of Mickey's face, hop on Indiana Jones, or in the old days ride Space Mountain again and again.........

TakeMe2Disneyland
10-19-2001, 08:12 PM
Some of the other on-site perks....


-Wonderful view of the Believe fireworks show (especially nice if you've got little ones who go to bed early!)
-Nifty backdoor-access to DCA from GCH and PP
-Guaranteed admission to the park, even on those very crowded days when the park closes the gates to additional visitors
-Neverland Pool!
-Early Entry EVERY day it's offered
-Easy walking and monorail access to the park
and, of course..
-A magical atmoshere that's hard to articulate...

Nigel2
10-19-2001, 09:55 PM
Its funny, here it really dosent matter as much if you are on site or not since its only a short walk, or a short shuttle (depending on the hotel) but at WDW it seems almost essental to stay on site since the only regular shuttles(from what I have heard and witnessed) are for the onsite disney owned hotels, apparently the swan and the Ahi Ahi (the dolphin, well dolphin fish that looks like a carp) which isn't actually owned by disney has poor transportation service. I always wonderd why do people staying here get only a lanyard (both resorts get tags) but at WDW if you get the flex pack you get a huge sellection of gifts, I got a nice AK clock.:D

innerSpaceman
10-19-2001, 10:25 PM
That's the real kicker, isn't it - the almost indescribable feeling of staying on the Disney property, living in a resort among resorts, going into this theme park or that, with an interconnecting neighborhood consisting solely of restaurants, entertainment venues, shops - a totally self-contained travel/amusement/pleasure world that you never set foot off of.

Hate to say it, but don't waste your money on the (so far) poor
imitation of that environment that they've recently tried to create with the so called Disneyland Resort -- if you can somehow make it to Florida, we're they've got this aspect of the experience hands down over Anaheim. There the feeling of total immersion is palpable, thick as the Floridian air that takes days to acclimate to, and days to see it all or even a large portion of - - days of incredible and different experiences where you exist in a world of resorts, restaurants and theme parks such as exists nowhere else on the planet.

Don't get me wrong. No single theme park on earth has got anything on Disneyland, but as for the multiple park, resort life, travel/pleasure/entertainment, self-contained world environment, Walt Disney World in Florida lives up to that name and is way more worthy of your resort dollar, if it's hard-earned.

The Disneyland Hotel and Grand Cal are fine places to stay, it's true, but the Disneyland Resort ain't no DisneyWorld. Never will be.

[Disclaimer: A good resort does not trump a good theme park. I'm soooo glad I live in Southern California and can frequent Disneyland, the greatest of them all by a mile]

stinkerbell
10-21-2001, 09:15 AM
I don't stay on the property--I like to visit DL as often as our budget allows. And use the extra money to buy nicer meals, more goodies for our daughters and things for friends back home. We always make it a point to eat in the DL hotels and see the pools, but since we're not really into swimming, it doesn't make sense for us to pay to stay there. Simply a matter of priorities. At WDW however, it was just easier to stay on-property and cost-wise, it was the same. Not so at DL. For example, we just stayed last week off-property for six days, family of six for $2000 (air, hotel, passports, shuttles from LAX, Goofy's Kitchen meal, 1 early entry, etc.) same vacation on-property was $4000+ (and DLR hotels don't have rooms for six). Next month for my daughter and myself we're paying $600 total for air, hotel, shuttle, Goofy's Kitchen and hopper passes, staying at Best Western Park Place. The same exact thing on property was $1200+ or $1500+ at Grand Californian. Such a huge difference! We'll still spend time peaking around the hotels and will eat there--actually more than once this time around--and not break the bank to do so. Some day we'll stay on property at DL, but with larger groups it's so hard to do so financially, and actually with just a party of two, it would be hard to justify it. I like to visit DL more often--that's my main priority. We always manage to make the magic happen for our kids no matter where we stay. :) :) :) :) :) :)

Wait, wasn't the topic early entry?????? sorry, just a little eager for my next visit to the happiest place on earth, and excited to do it so cheaply and so soon after our last visit.......

MammaSilva
10-21-2001, 09:32 AM
Early Entry has gone beyond the original concept....back in the day (think early 90's here) the ONLY people who got 'early entry' were either guests at the DL or what was then the Pan Pacific...everyone who bought a package from WDT got ONE early in...this was a very exclusive event back then, you got in the park they loaded you on the train you got to see Main Street Totally deserted except for the occasional maintance truck or worker... and off you went to the Tommorowland station...fast foward to 'now' every day EE/MM is operating is up for grabs if you bought your flex pass thru Disney, either online, thru WDT or the DisneyStores in the malls....the lines at 6:30 in the morning look like the ones at 'regular' opening time...the only people that aren't getting the EE bonus are those 'one day' pass people....is it fair.. probably not....is it important to the majority of people who are coming to the park from far away... probably....will things change if it looks like the general public are going to revolt..most likely......the one thing that is constant with Disney is that nothing is set in stone and they change policys as fast as the spending public make them.....