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MotorBoat Cruiser
03-16-2004, 12:00 PM
I've seen this topic pop up in many places. Some are sure that there is a tribute placed by Disney, in the form of a campsite, others say that isn't the case. I though we could maybe get to the bottom of it in this thread.

Is there any proof that Disney actually placed a memorial there or is it just speculation?

innerSpaceman
03-16-2004, 12:11 PM
Who could need more proof? Just look at the thing. A ramshackle campsite with a shovel and a white sheet draped over a rope. Pulease.

Some people say that this little campsite has always been there. Others, having never noticed it, are certain that it is new.

I have to think that, if it were there before, a scene fully visible from big thunder trail that consists of little more than a white sheet and a shovel would have been removed following the Torres incident.



Like I posted in another thread, there will be no "proof." Disney will never admit to culpability in this death. It is a sly tribute by the imagineers, who have always been known to slip things in under the very noses of their masters.

Go and see it for yourself. You will come away disturbed and emotionally affected.

sediment
03-16-2004, 01:25 PM
Official Hidden Mickeys don't exist, either. If they did, then it was Eisner's "going for magic." Official Hidden Card Walkers don't exist at WDW, either.

I'll need to hear it from a more informed gossip before I believe it.

MotorBoat Cruiser
03-16-2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
Who could need more proof? Just look at the thing. A ramshackle campsite with a shovel and a white sheet draped over a rope. Pulease.


With all due respect, I'm not sure I follow? It just doesn't seem that a shovel and white sheet would be a fitting or appropriate tribute. Perhaps you are right and it will make more sense to me once I see it. (I actually do remember seeing a campsite but didn't notice anything and thought it had always been there)

You also mentioned there beng red longjohns. Is there some significance to this item or is it just decoration?

innerSpaceman
03-16-2004, 01:49 PM
Normally I'd just refer you over to the 'Big Thunder Opens Thursday' thread where this has already been discussed, but I like your style MbC, so I'll cut you some slack.

Originally the longjohns were just splayed on the ground, looking not unlike a chalk outline - and a blood-red one at that! But better taste prevailed and the longjohns were subsequently slung over the rope that the white sheet hangs from.

Kevy Baby
03-16-2004, 02:42 PM
I myself have heard from reliable sources (that, for obvious reasons I cannot divulge - but they are more realiable than Al's on the Teacup controversy) that yes indeed; that campsite is a tribute to Mr. Torres. It was a concerted effort on the part of a few Imagineers and CMs to sneak it in without approval.

Cadaverous Pallor
03-16-2004, 02:53 PM
Sorry guys - I'm going to be the party pooper.

The campsite has always been there. It is not a tribute. The idea that it might be a tribute was a joke, invented by some people after I mentioned that I had never noticed the campsite before.

Some people thought it would be funny if they actually attempted to start a false rumor. They think that duping people into a lie is hilarious.

I don't.

I'm sure that plenty of people have seen the rumor mentioned elsewhere on the boards and have already spread it to their friends. It may be too late to put a stop to the lie.

But you, reading this now, please listen - it's BS.

As much as I love my friends, I can't let this happen while I stand idly by. Sorry.

To everyone that has been duped - I'm sorry I didn't stop it earlier. I thought they'd have fun with it for a short while and then own up publicly. But apparently that wasn't the case.

The ironic thing is that some of you may think that THIS post is the lie, the joke, and not believe me. Believe what you will, but I'm deadly serious.

Lying about an homage to a dead 22 year old is not funny.

sediment
03-16-2004, 03:09 PM
What's even more ironic is that Disney might have to "break camp" based on this rumor. I mean, eventually it will get outside of this virtual play house, someone will take it seriously (because there are all sorts of people), and they'll complain to City Hall about Disney's callousness over such a lame attempt at a tribute.

The camp's days are numbered. (That's a vague prognostication if I've ever heard one.)

Ghoulish Delight
03-16-2004, 03:19 PM
Please, if Disney reacted to every stupid rumor out there, the park would be closed out of respect.

innerSpaceman
03-16-2004, 03:27 PM
While I do not have the pleasure of knowing any actual imagineers, I am well acquainted with many a cast member and several of them have assured me as to the veracity of the Torres tribute campsite.

In addition, I am sleeping with someone who has access to a treasure trove of inside information via their connections to a certain well-known Disneyland muckraker, and word has come down that pike that the tribute is the real deal.

People can choose to believe what they want. I think people are capable of making their own decisions. I, for one, will shed a tear or feel a twinge of remorse every time I pass that lonely campsite on Big Thunder Trail.

cstephens
03-16-2004, 03:30 PM
So, presuming that CP is telling the truth, that means that iSm has been in on perpetuating the falsehood about the camp, even while expressing the intention of staying off the ride for 6 months out of respect (http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=361547#post361547), though I can't tell from subsequent posts if he went on the ride this past weekend?

Wow, that's pretty telling.


If it is true that this started as a misunderstanding that some people thought it would be funny to intentionally propagate, then I have to say that I'm amazed at how unfeeling some people can be. I agree, using the death of a person for some inside joke is pretty unbelievable.

sediment
03-16-2004, 03:35 PM
For GD:
1. "Regarding this next PoTC rehab, we have been getting too many complaints about the politically incorrect pirates chasing women for nothing more than their charms. No, we shouldn't change it, but we'll get fewer complaints. Yes, we might get more complaints from APer, but who cares about them? Hahahaha!"

2. "Regarding the Golden Dreams attraction, it seems that many people are complaining that we condone the violence of killing children. I know we don't, but edit this, so fewer people complain."

3. "Regarding Jungle Cruise, we have too many complaints about the casual use of guns against animals. Yes, I know they are plastic, but let's eliminate the guns so there will be fewer complaints."

Anything to reduce complaints instead of addressing them in a calm, mature manner.

sediment
03-16-2004, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
While I do not have the pleasure of knowing any actual imagineers, I am well acquainted with many a cast member and several of them have assured me as to the veracity of the Torres tribute campsite.

In addition, I am sleeping with someone who has access to a treasure trove of inside information via their connections to a certain well-known Disneyland muckraker, and word has come down that pike that the tribute is the real deal.

People can choose to believe what they want. I think people are capable of making their own decisions. I, for one, will shed a tear or feel a twinge of remorse every time I pass that lonely campsite on Big Thunder Trail.

Maybe they're just pulling your leg. Maybe they got wind of it from some other practical joker and don't know any better.
"Friend of a friend" is not legitimate enough.

Ghoulish Delight
03-16-2004, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by sediment
For GD:
1. "Regarding this next PoTC rehab, we have been getting too many complaints about the politically incorrect pirates chasing women for nothing more than their charms. No, we shouldn't change it, but we'll get fewer complaints. Yes, we might get more complaints from APer, but who cares about them? Hahahaha!"

2. "Regarding the Golden Dreams attraction, it seems that many people are complaining that we condone the violence of killing children. I know we don't, but edit this, so fewer people complain."

3. "Regarding Jungle Cruise, we have too many complaints about the casual use of guns against animals. Yes, I know they are plastic, but let's eliminate the guns so there will be fewer complaints."

Anything to reduce complaints instead of addressing them in a calm, mature manner. The guns were not plastic, they were real guns shooting blanks. The story I hears was that following a series of minor incidents (specifically after the little girl lost her finger on Tom Sawyer's Island), DOSH did a thurough crack down and decided they were unhappy with having real guns, even one shooting blanks. So rather than switch to un-convincing cap guns, Disney elected to remove the gag entirely.

I was one who complained about the depiction of the explosion (as well as other things) Golden Dreams. Not that I felt it was condoning violence, but because I felt it was presented in a very awkward, wishy-washy way that came across to me as, "People's lives really sucked, but it's okay 'cause Whoopie's here!" I felt the show did a very poor job of stradling the line between idealistic "Statetriotism" and realistic history lesson. While there are ways to reconcile the two, I felt the film did it in a very jarring, disjointed fashion. So to me, the removal of the scenes is a small step towards a better film. Not because I think it's "un-pc" to show the death, rather that I think they did it in an ineffective manner. Of course, removing (or shortening) the one scene hardly fixes the rest of the problems with the film, so I still don't particularly like it.

EandCDad
03-16-2004, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by cstephens
I agree, using the death of a person for some inside joke is pretty unbelievable.

It's not that unbelievable.

sediment
03-16-2004, 04:09 PM
I was referring to the animals being plastic.

The three examples were my imagined BMO-TDA ("Before Matt Ouimet") discussions about things people complained about. I don't think the veracity of the complaint is the problem. It's that someone's performance was tied to lowering complaints, legit or not.
I've never seen Golden Dreams. Seems a good thing to see if it's hot out, or if all the other attractions have big lines, or if I'm waiting for a FastPass to mature. None of these things has ever happened to me, so GD (no, not you) will have to wait. And it's low on the list if any of those things happen. I think it's after "Let's go home."

cstephens
03-16-2004, 04:10 PM
OK, I'll correct myself - using the death of this particular person for this particular joke in this particular fashion is pretty unbelievable to me.

innerSpaceman
03-16-2004, 04:19 PM
Well, I'll admit to the possibility of my leg being pulled. It's happened before. But if I'm gullible, then it's my responsibility for being that way, and I don't see how it's anyone's business to appoint themselves as anyone else's Jiminy Cricket conscience.

If this is all a false rumour that is seemingly in bad taste, I will cut those who started it all some slack - as I would put this in the category of laughter-in-place-of-tears rather than downright nastiness.

It seems, though, that some of the original perpetrators of this potentially fraudulent item are feeling twangs of guilt - so who knows what blackness may have truly been in their hearts when these shenanigans were first conceived?

millionairegirl
03-16-2004, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by Cadaverous Pallor
The campsite has always been there. It is not a tribute.


Are you sure it's always been there? I've walked by that piece of track for my whole life, and I've never noticed the campsite and the longjohns before. I'm not saying it is a tribute, but I'm pretty sure the actual campsite is new. Of course, it could all be a case of not seeing something for 6 months and then seeing it all again with fresh eyes. Does anyone have pictures of the campsite *before* the accident?

sediment
03-16-2004, 04:33 PM
Sounds more and more like that crop-circle incident in NoCal, in which, after being informed that it was a hoax, people STILL thought that it was made by "visitors."

yobbie
03-16-2004, 04:39 PM
Has anyone posted a pic of the campsite anywhere? Darkbeer?? I may have missed it somewhere, but if someone has a link or something, I would sure appreciate it!!

Kristy <~~wishing she didn't live a few hundred miles away so she could pop in and check it out.

innerSpaceman
03-16-2004, 04:41 PM
The campsite is right at that viewspot on the Big Thunder Trail where the train comes whizzing by. People are constantly watching the train from that viewpoint. I have stood there dozens of times throughout the years, and I have never before seen that campsite.

Now, I'm beginning to doubt whether it's a tribute, but I am fairly certain it's new. And if it is new, it certainly begs the question of why there is a new scene that consists of a shovel, a white sheet, and a pair of longjohns. If it's simply coincidence that a white sheet and a shovel might be considered to be in bad taste for a new scene that opens following a closure due to a fatality, then that is an unfortunate coincidence indeed.

Cadaverous Pallor
03-16-2004, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
It seems, though, that some of the original perpetrators of this potentially fraudulent item are feeling twangs of guilt... I had nothing to do with the actual ruse. I was kidding when I spoke of it - I would never come here and lie to people. I was surprised when it actually showed up here.

I never added to the story. I thought it was somewhat funny but I felt guilty from the start. I knew that if it went on too long, I'd have to "ruin the fun".

I think having it's own thread is "too long".

millionairegirl, like I said, I have never noticed it before. But that's a common occurance at the park. Some people are claiming that the projection inside the boulder lift is new, and I know that was there before.

zapppop
03-16-2004, 04:51 PM
By request, this is the campsite in question:

http://members.aol.com/lunerds/tribute.jpg

sediment
03-16-2004, 05:16 PM
Maybe it just looks new.
I think a canvas look would be more authentic. A white sheet? That's a bit unusual for a Wilderness campsite, eh?