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View Full Version : Coaster Victim's Parents Question Reopening of Ride - LA Times, 3/13/04



Darkbeer
03-12-2004, 11:56 PM
Coaster Victim's Parents Question Reopening of Ride (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/orange/la-me-thunder13mar13,1,5876646.story?coll=la-editions-orange) - Los Angeles Times, 3/13/04

QuikQuote: In a news conference at their attorney's office in Santa Ana on Friday, Torres' parents said they are not convinced that the park's new safety measures — including retraining ride operators and mechanics — will prevent crashes.
"It might have been too soon," Jaime Torres said. "We need answers for why this happened and what exactly has been done so no other families will have to suffer through this."

adriennek
03-13-2004, 08:01 AM
"She and her husband learned of the ride reopening from their attorney, who in turn was informed Wednesday by a newspaper reporter. Knowing that the ride was running again triggered a flood of emotions for the family, Jaime Torres said."

So it sounds like they do not have any more access to any more information than anyone else, but they've decided that the ride re-opened too soon.

I would give this story/the parents a lot more credibility if they could show that their concern was based on any current evidence more than their emotions/re-opened wounds.

And this also brings up the point that was made in the other thread: the father did say that his point is that he thinks the ride re-opened too soon, not just to remind people that someone died.

Adrienne

EandCDad
03-13-2004, 09:11 AM
I can understand the parents concern and emotions. I'm sure I'd feel very smiliar. But I tend to agree with adriennek, I can't see how this guy knows any more than anyone else about what's been done. His opinion about the safety of the ride currently is probably as valid as mine, that is, not very.

innerSpaceman
03-13-2004, 10:07 AM
On the other hand, don't you think it might be possible for the Torres family to have some insider info - considering that their lawyers are undoubtedly conducting ongoing investigations to aid in their lawsuit?

I can tell you that, in lawsuits my office prosecutes, the investigations are ongoing and we, and our clients, know way more than the general public on any issue involving the suit.

happyhaunts999
03-13-2004, 10:11 AM
This is Disneyland first major Coaster Accident yes there have been other freak accidents but none from an E-ticket de-railment. I'm sure disney has taken every step to make sure this will not happen again. They do not need the reputation of being a death park. With new management in place and the pressler regiem gone all maintenance will improve I'm sure. We can all see the new management leaving it's impression on the park for the better.

innerSpaceman
03-13-2004, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by happyhaunts999
They do not need the reputation of being a death park.
Well then perhaps they should not negligently killing people. :rolleyes:

happyhaunts999
03-13-2004, 10:35 AM
The old management under the pressler regiem let the park get to the state it was at, when rides were falling apart at the seams because Paul thought he was saving money where as if he would have looked at it over the long haul he would have realized that it was going to cost the park alot more money in lawsuits and and Major refurbs. Under new management it will take them time to put there stamp on the park and it will take time to undo all of presslers mistakes. Mr. Ouimet can not make the park perfect over night but as we all have seen in the last year the park is improving everyday. This accident has to be blamed on the shortcuts taken by that moron pressler and his idiot lackey Cynthia Harris. As far as i am concerned they should be hung on the stake for this.

Kevy Baby
03-13-2004, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by happyhaunts999
This is Disneyland first major Coaster Accident yes there have been other freak accidents but none from an E-ticket de-railment.Taking an objective look at the deaths "in the park", there have been two relatively recently (this one and the dock accident) that are directly attributable to negligence by Disney.

IMHO, all the other deaths were, either completely or mostly, due to stupidity on the part of the deceased.

adriennek
03-13-2004, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
On the other hand, don't you think it might be possible for the Torres family to have some insider info - considering that their lawyers are undoubtedly conducting ongoing investigations to aid in their lawsuit?

I can tell you that, in lawsuits my office prosecutes, the investigations are ongoing and we, and our clients, know way more than the general public on any issue involving the suit.

I'm not going to rule that out, but it would definitely make their letter more credible if they did- and if they told us about it. Let's just say that they did have this information and they were sincerely concerned that this ride was not ready to open. Then I think the appropriate, responsible thing to do would be to say: We have evidence that this ride is not ready to open yet. Based on this evidence, we are concerned that Disney opened this ride too soon.

If they have evidence, even if they don't want to tell us what it is, I think that it would be fully appropriate to say, "We can't say what it is because of pending litigation, but we have evidence." And if they're not ready to say that much in public, then why should I assume that they do? If they have the evidence, why would they not reveal that they have it? Wouldn't it help their PR case AND give potential riders information they need?

Adrienne

happyhaunts999
03-13-2004, 01:58 PM
As i said Kevy This is the first E-Tickets Disaster I know there have been other injuries and deaths because of mistakes made by Disney. Mr. Ouimet will do everything to correct the maintenance on all rides,you can be sure. We can all breathe a sigh of relief that we now have someone who cares about people and not just the bottom line which is money.

adriennek
03-13-2004, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by happyhaunts999
We can all breathe a sigh of relief that we now have someone who cares about people and not just the bottom line which is money.

I'll start breathing when I see actions. Not to say they won't happen, just that I need to see it happen first. I don't take pie crust promises ;)

Adrienne

happyhaunts999
03-13-2004, 02:14 PM
Are most of you saying that the DOSH report is BS. Do you think a state agency is going to sign off on a ride if everything is not better. They Do not only inspect the ride and track. They also make sure cast members are properly trained on procedures. They make sure the maintenance staff know what to do properly as to get the cars and tracks up to code.

Kevy Baby
03-13-2004, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by happyhaunts999
As i said Kevy This is the first E-Tickets Disaster I know there have been other injuries and deaths because of mistakes made by Disney.I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you. Actually supporting your point. While the Columbia dock tradgedy (one thread about it if you are not familiar with this story (http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19879&highlight=columbia)) was not on an "E-ticket" attraction, it was in the same vein: Disney was negligent. My point was that Disney did not, until the last few years, have this kind of drop in guest safety.

Which I think supports your argument.

innerSpaceman
03-13-2004, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by adriennek
I think that it would be fully appropriate to say, "We can't say what it is because of pending litigation, but we have evidence." And if they're not ready to say that much in public, then why should I assume that they do?
Well, no one need make that assumption. Personally, it's an assumption I have made, based on my career field of knowledge. I don't ask anyone else to necessarily make that assumption; rather I was inviting anyone and everyone to consider it a possibility and maybe cut the grieving family a little slack with a compassionate benefit of the doubt.

cemeinke
03-13-2004, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
rather I was inviting anyone and everyone to consider it a possibility and maybe cut the grieving family a little slack with a compassionate benefit of the doubt.

I didn't see any call for boycotting the ride in the letter.

I rode Big Thunder on Thursday and no one in my train was killed

innerSpaceman
03-13-2004, 04:56 PM
I'm relieved.


but who said anything about boycotting the ride? I'm just suggesting that the family's statement might not have been motivated by greed and avarice, and that their side of a multimillion dollar lawsuit may know more than we do.

did anyone else mention a btmrr boycott? I certainly don't think that idea was conveyed in the Torres letter either.

Ghoulish Delight
03-13-2004, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by happyhaunts999
Are most of you saying that the DOSH report is BS. Do you think a state agency is going to sign off on a ride if everything is not better. They Do not only inspect the ride and track. They also make sure cast members are properly trained on procedures. They make sure the maintenance staff know what to do properly as to get the cars and tracks up to code. DOSH could only report on the documented procedures that Disney now has in place after the accident. I'm sure those are all in order. However, there were documented procedures BEFORE the accident that could have prevented it, but due to negligence, cost cutting, and other factors, those procedure were not followed. Unless DOSH keeps someone at Disneyland at all times, there is no way anyone can be sure that the CMs won't slip right back into the pattern that led to the problem to begin with.

DisneyFan25863
03-13-2004, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by cemeinke
I rode Big Thunder on Thursday and no one in my train was killed


How can you be sure?


Sorry, I've seen one too many "Dawn of the Dead" trailers

kijay
03-13-2004, 07:33 PM
Happyhaunts makes an excellent point. I think we can all agree that the recent decline in maintenance is directly attributable to Paul Pressler and his underling Cynthia. They cared more about saving money than they did about doing it right. It is well known that they had no concept of what Disneyland is. They would have been run out on a rail by Walt. The belief is the new regieme will fix these problems and restore Disneyland to its prior glory as it deserves. But only time will tell. Maybe that the ride was reopened shows that the new admin. is really taking action, not just making promises. There is certainly a lot at stake, isn't there?

Kevy Baby
03-13-2004, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by kijay
I think we can all agree that the recent decline in maintenance is directly attributable to Paul Pressler and his underling Cynthia. They cared more about saving money than they did about doing it right.This kind of mentality comes from the top down. And the top is still around.

cemeinke
03-14-2004, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by innerSpaceman
but who said anything about boycotting the ride?

I think you suggested it in this thread (http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?threadid=26315&perpage=25&pagenumber=1) when you said:


Originally posted by innerSpaceman
I was planning on riding Big Thunder this weekend. I am excited to have it back, as I enjoy the ride very much. But it's not like it's a brand new attraction, and it's not like I haven't been on it a thousand times. I was very moved by the Torres family's open letter. I feel that their son was murdered. Yes, murdered. As of now, I believe staying off the ride for another 6 months is a valid way of expressing my outrage and my respect for the dead and for the grieving. I may change my mind once my tears have dried, but as of now, that's what I intend to do.

Pat-n-Eil
03-14-2004, 07:10 AM
I agree with KevyBaby.

Decisions to cut maintenance on the scale that Disneyland did must have come down from above. If Pressler or Harris had any qualms about it, they kept them private behind closed doors. Sometimes it even comes down to their jobs under threats like "Do it or we'll find someone else who will". If they tried to buck the system or defy the order, they'd be non-team players. Its very tricky.

Isn't it ironic that obeying the orders ultimately cost them their jobs. So they, personally, were screwed either way. I'd think other managers (ones with fortitude) in all walks of lifem especially theme parks & transportation could learn a lesson here.

Smart managers will adjust. Even though Eisner is currently still CEO, I would think there is pressure to get this part of things right. To not do so would be a sign of incredible arrogance or blinding stupidity.