PDA

View Full Version : Why have a ride queue and not use it?



MotorBoat Cruiser
02-19-2004, 03:52 PM
My companion and I were talking at the park the other day about why Disney builds these elaborate qeues and then doesn't use them.

Take Star Tours for example. The last time we rode it, we stood out side for about 20 minutes before being let into an empty qeue. When this happens, you can't really stop and check things out because there are people behind you. Also, it seems that the fastpass people were included into the same line we were on. There are two seperate lines though. Why not have fastpass on one side and non-FP on the other.

I guess my point is that I don't mind waiting on a line if there are cool things to check out in the process. But they never use the full qeue for Indy either. You wait a while outdoors then walk all the way through this really cool qeue, that to be honest, I have never really had a chance to check out in detail. A few weeks ago, however, there was enough interest in the Jungle Cruise that they actually had the upstairs open. It was pretty cool, and again, I didn't mind waiting in the line. I wouldn't mind checking out the Roger Rabbit queu either, for that matter. But again, the only waiting you do is, for the most part, outside of the queu.

So can anyone explain this to me? What is the reasoning of having people stand outside a qeue and rush through it? Why go through the expense of even making it in the first place? I'm completely confused.

Ghoulish Delight
02-19-2004, 04:19 PM
Short answer, Fastpass. It's easier for them to keep people outside and let the fastpass in there, then try to split things up inside.

sediment
02-19-2004, 04:20 PM
My thoughts:
1. The queues were made well before certain psychological observations and theories were published.
2. The theory floating around is that people will get in a line for an attraction more often than they would enter a non-lined-up attraction.
3. Now, this theory works great if the queue is already filled up, since the ride is popular. "Look people will get in a line!"
4. I believe this works only with first-time visitors. Long-time visitors (AP holders, for example) might see a line and choose NOT to get in line. "I'm not waiting THAT long," assuming that the inside queue is also filled. (And I'm knocking an AP holder's decision. I'm not waiting that long, either.)
5. Instead, the long-time visitor will choose to buy something.
6. This follows a Pressler-like line of thinking.
7. Another theory is that people just don't want to wait even a second for an attraction. A moving line (a no-stop line, actually) is preferred, in order to lower complaints at City Hall. People in general are also getting to a point where they'd rather not stand next to perfect strangers for very long. This societal problem does not seem to have a solution, to me.
8. Yes, this does contribute to the clogged walkways. I hate it. And this must stop.
9. However, it might be more of a safety issue. Indy's queue goes pretty far, and having to evacuate a full queue might be logistically tough (even though it should have been thought out in the planning stage).

My opinion: People should immerse themselves in the queues. Escape from even the Disneyland walkways for just a few moments. That magic will come. I promise. Read the titles of the books in Mickey Mouse's house. Pull the rope in Indy. Listen to the anarchist AAs in Star Tours and find the hidden InnerSpace items. (Just trying to help the immersion process.) And let people pass you if they want. Their loss.

olegc
02-19-2004, 04:21 PM
There have been several stories and opinions (Kevin Yee at Miceage in particular) that have gone on ad nauseum about this issue. Essentially it boils down to the fact that many of the queues were built prior to the era of FastPass and the imagineers had no idea that an alternate queueing method would be used. So, when fastPass did come along there was no budget for altering the lines, simply for putting a CM at an entry point. They have not tackled this issue yet.

But - I found it interesting that even POOH, which came after FastPass started, has had some "issues" with queue design. Not for things to look at but how the line moves. Sometimes you have to make do with the space you have.

sediment
02-19-2004, 04:38 PM
That seems to be more it. After all, you (with a FastPass) arrive at the designated time and expect to get on the ride. Right now!! How can this be accommodated unless fewer non-FastPassers are in the queue?

So FastPass, combined with non-FastPass-planned rides, is causing walkways to be clogged in two ways. One, it keeps FastPass holders out of the queue. Two, it keeps non-FastPass holders out of the queue!

The queues assist in making the ride great, memorable, unique!!

Not Afraid
02-19-2004, 04:38 PM
I love FastPass, but I really hate having to walk quickly through some of the best queues in Disneylan. The queues of Roger Rabbit, Indy, somethimes Mansion, Star Tours, and Space Mountain are all mostly lost to the rider because of FP.

I always try to walk slowly through RR to catch all of the visual goodies, but that only works when I'm near the end of the herd.:|

PapiBear
02-19-2004, 04:45 PM
Part of the fun at Disneyland has always been about waiting in line. But everyone's always in so much of a damn hurry these days, eager to "get it done and over with". Thus the introduction of FastPass (also introduced to placate the AP holders, who are FAR more numerous than they should be - going to Disneyland is supposed to be a treat, not like hanging out at the mall or having fun in a city park or something).

I think if they got rid of FastPass, raised the price of Annual Passes to a ridiculous level (like $5000), and closed the Park on Mondays and Tuesdays like they used to, people would tend to value Disneyland more (and maintenance could have 48 straight hours a week to handle its business, in addition to its regular maintenance times), and waiting in line would be something fewer would complain about, since just being able to get into Disneyland would be more challenging and we could enjoy the queue entertainments more. I remember sometimes lagging behind in line because the queue entertainment was really GOOD and interesting!

All the talk about how Disney's "competing" with other amusement parks is laughable, because Disneyland and Walt Disney World compete with no one but themselves. (Everyone else tries hard to compete with Disney, but there's only ONE original, true Disneyland in the entire world. - you never hear about the White House complaining about competing with other Presidential mansions, do you? Why? Because there's only one in the world.)

sediment
02-19-2004, 04:54 PM
TAN: Question for old-timers:
When was the last day that Disneyland was scheduled to be closed for a whole day for maintenance upkeep (or lack of attendance)?
I think one day would do it, but DCA would have to be opened that day, now that it's a "resort" (but not for long, as Cast Member Matt is planning to drop the "resort" affixation since there are few if any resort-like services).

MotorBoat Cruiser
02-19-2004, 05:05 PM
Fair enough, and thanks for the responses.

I do have a problem with the fast pass argument though. Take Star Tours, for example. There are two completely seperate lines (think about how they handle the Splash Mountain fastpass). Why couldn't they do do something like that? One side for the FP, one side for non-FP. Then, if you are in a hurry and don't want to see the qeue, get a FP. Otherwise, you can stand in line indoors and check out the qeue.

PapiBear
02-19-2004, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by sediment
TAN: Question for old-timers:
When was the last day that Disneyland was scheduled to be closed for a whole day for maintenance upkeep (or lack of attendance)?

I believe it was sometime back in the early 80s; that'd be my guess.


Originally posted by sediment
I think one day would do it, but DCA would have to be opened that day, now that it's a "resort" (but not for long, as Cast Member Matt is planning to drop the "resort" affixation since there are few if any resort-like services).

Oh thank goodness for that! It's "Disneyland" not "DLR", not "The Disneyland Resort Complex" or any other half-baked corporate appellation. Just "Disneyland". It's a place of wonder, not an "asset". I sure hope Matt and a few others are LISTENING to us.

lindyhop
02-19-2004, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by sediment
My opinion: People should immerse themselves in the queues. Escape from even the Disneyland walkways for just a few moments. That magic will come. I promise. Read the titles of the books in Mickey Mouse's house. Pull the rope in Indy. Listen to the anarchist AAs in Star Tours and find the hidden InnerSpace items. (Just trying to help the immersion process.) And let people pass you if they want. Their loss.

I miss the queues, especially Indy, so I try to hold back and sight see if I can. But I refuse to do anything but Fastpass or single rider on Splash. That queue is torture.:(

Morrigoon
02-19-2004, 09:08 PM
They're redoing the Indy queue, hopefully the problem will be solved.

jswtsang
02-20-2004, 09:50 AM
in my best old timer voice...
I remember back in 1999 when my aunt and I waited 45 minutes + to see Indiana Jones. We saw the entire movie explaining why you shouldn't look in to the eye of mara, and I kept my eyes closed for the beginning part of the ride.

Flash forward to 2003, my b/f and I jog through the queue and he doesn't get what's going on, I have to explain to him why the statue part is scary, and why it's better to have a bit of a line to see the movie.


oh well
jt

sediment
02-20-2004, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by lindyhop
I miss the queues, especially Indy, so I try to hold back and sight see if I can. But I refuse to do anything but Fastpass or single rider on Splash. That queue is torture.:(

Well, only the parts where there is a hurricane-force A/C breeze.

For Indy, it might be better to have the film room as a separate closed room. "You must view this movie before you proceed" kind of thing. Then the post-film queue is sized just right so that cars aren't waiting and that the whole film audience can get out of the film room.
Kind of like "Great Movie Ride"-style.

olegc
02-20-2004, 10:41 AM
I agree. Even though I am an AP holder I think that the bottleneck that is created post film room is a little disconcerting.

So - I think it is best to keep some of the queue elements to be "required" parts of the ride. Otherwise you have ride only, and no backstory. Even though you ride more often in a year than standard guests - it's the magic, silly. Call it - 20min fastpass (or something)...

HOwever, I do appreciate FastPass with a large family (when they go with me) - otherwise we could not enjoy as much together.

danyoung
02-20-2004, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by MotorBoat Cruiser
Take Star Tours, for example. There are two completely seperate lines (think about how they handle the Splash Mountain fastpass). Why couldn't they do do something like that? One side for the FP, one side for non-FP.

I've actually given this a bunch of thought, as I HATE to be rushed through a queue. The only thing I can come up with is that it would take one more cast member to police. One outside at the start of the line, and one inside at the point where the lines would eventually merge. That's just a guess, tho . . . . . .

Rangnar
02-20-2004, 11:53 AM
I appreciated Indy more when you had to go through the old line system. It moved fast enough that it was hard to decipher the codes in time. It moved slow enough to enjoy the details and experiences that the entry sequence had to offer. Now that we single rider through the exit (baby-swap) it is lacking the set-up and mental candy that added to my experience.

But having kid-o's, I still must opt for the fastest way through the ride to join back with Mrs. Rangnar and the little Rang's on their side adventures.

Captain Josh
02-21-2004, 09:11 AM
The way I carry on, is that I hang back, and take my time through the line. Like I've rattled on ad naseum, I even created a little performance art project called "The Guerilla Entertainment Project" aka "The Spirit of Adventure", where in theory I would be in my Adventureland best as tourguide who was part of the initial excavation, leading an intrepid group of tourists through the line queue, and point out the finer details, translate a few inscriptions, and tell (made-up, in-joke laden) anecdotes about the early days of the excavation with the help of my trusty journal. (as DoodleDuck, Uncle Dick, and a few others could confirm the existence of...)

Of course, the way it is now, the only way people would wait in line is if they were forced to, or if something was very entertaining to keep them there. In this day and age, even a well-placed spike room activation doesn't stop those "joggers"....

sleepyjeff
02-21-2004, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by danyoung
The only thing I can come up with is that it would take one more cast member to police. One outside at the start of the line, and one inside at the point where the lines would eventually merge . . . . . .

Disney is trying to cut the number of cast members who take the boats across the ROA to TSI......I doubt if they will be adding CMs to any queues anytime soon.:(

Crispy
02-22-2004, 11:15 AM
My first visit to Disneyland was in 95 (long before Fast pass) when Indy had just opened. The line stretched into the hub and then snaked back into the Fronteirland entrance. After getting up to the temple part there was a large zig-zag back and forth section of the queue by the shore of the Jungle Cruise that was sitting there completely empty. I, too, wondered why they built that section of the queue and didn't use it. If it had been opened up, it wouldn't have been necessay to stretch the line all the way back into the Fronteirland entrance.

Cris