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Pafuts
02-14-2004, 07:17 PM
As I am new to this board, I'm just curious about what people thoughts are about Annual Passes. I've seen several references like "But you know what I think." And I was hoping to learn what those opinions are. Not looking to debate, just wanted to hear ideas.

:cool:

Forbin
02-14-2004, 07:25 PM
Good value.

stan4d_steph
02-14-2004, 07:58 PM
Welcome to the board. The entire board is searchable, although the terms you use have to be more than 3 letters, so if you are interested in AP threads using "annual pass" would be one option.
Here's a link (http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?threadid=25150) to a recent thread on the subject of annual passholders.
Here's another link (http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?threadid=23857&highlight=annual+pass) where people discuss reasons for not renewing their passes.

I enjoyed my pass when I lived in the DL area and found it to be a great way to meet up with friends.

tod
02-14-2004, 08:03 PM
A Premium Annual Passport is a steal at $225, and you should buy one immediately before Comcast buys the store and stops selling them.

--T
who thinks the AP is a bad, bad thing for Disney, but will damn-well take adventage of the AP program as long as it's there

Pafuts
02-14-2004, 09:50 PM
But why do you think it's a bad thing?

Loric
02-14-2004, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by Pafuts
But why do you think it's a bad thing?

People get into the DLR for pennies a day sometimes. It lets parents use the parks as a babysitter and a billion other "over use" issues.

It's not inherently a bad thing, people have just have begun to "Get their moneys worth" and that's bad for profits.

Disney sort of assumed just selling a ticket, any ticket, would be a good thing. Then they stopped making money off the program, because after your 4th trip to the parks, the amount you paid per entry starts dropping, and since individual attractions don't charge admission, by each time you enter the park is paying the support you, but you're paying less and less to enter.

Eventually, one side out-weighs the other and it's just about reaching the breaking point and the system is facing reform or removal.

In short..

cemeinke
02-14-2004, 10:20 PM
:|

Not Afraid
02-14-2004, 10:26 PM
I LOVE my AP. I meet up with friends at the DLR on a regular basis and treasure these meets. I also spend a WOD of cash at the park, so my PAP actually costs me a LOT more than $215 (remewal rate). We always joke that Michael Eisner should be sending us Christmas cards.;)

Sadly, for Disney, they would lose my frequent business if I didn't have an AP.

There are certainly many people who have issues with the AP Program, but, oh well. :)

DisneyFan25863
02-14-2004, 10:32 PM
Since I bought my $225 Premie AP last October, I have been to the park on average 2 times a month.

Thats about 9 times so far. By buying the AP, I have saved $198.

Had I not gotten the AP, I would have probably gone once this year.

Lets say that each time I go, I spend 25 dollars on food and stuff (even though I NEVER spend that much. Thats just an estimate for all AP's)

So, with the AP, Disney has made $450 dollars off me, and I havn't even had it for 6 months. Presuming I keep at this rate of attendence, Disney will have taken in about $825 from me this year. Had I not had an AP, they would have gotten $72.


So if I go 24 times this year, and spend $25 dollars in food and such each visit, I actually am spending about $34 per visit (including cost of AP). That is really not that much less than a regular ticket.

The thing is, I go more often that your everyday AP. They may actually be spending about $50 per visit.

It really evens out in the end :)

sleepyjeff
02-14-2004, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by Forbin
Good value.

I would say cheap at 3 times the price.

:)

spaced mountain guy
02-15-2004, 12:38 AM
I spend on average about 40 bucks each time I go.I am usually there for only 6 hours. Last time I went other than today I spent over 300 bucks. But I purchased an AP for my son and had to buy him a jacket since his was getting too small for him. I kind of left it at Flicks fun fair on accident. I also got us both dinner and snacks throughout the night. I didnt take any snacks into the park, but I could have easily taken snacks into the park. Ohh he was mad at me for missing Fantasmic too but I will take him again soon enough. When I do take him again I will probably upgrade his passport from deluxe to a premium just so we can go on a Saturday.
So to everyone that thinks that AP's just take money from the resort, I ask you to really think what we bring in. I have had two friends get AP's since I have gotten mine who otherwise would never have gotten an AP. Who knows how much they spend each time they go or how often. One I know won't go without me, trying to wean her off of that:). The point I am trying to make is that just from me getting an AP I have since purchased two for my son over the years, My daughter is coming down this coming spring break with lots of her friends. More passes or help coming from me:). I spent alot on dinners,snacks, lunches,and who know's how much on other trinkets that I feel that Disney is making a killing off of us AP's.

blusilva
02-15-2004, 01:18 AM
I've purchased Premium APs since 1996 (with one year off when I was unemployed). It's a wallop to my budget, but it's my "good mental health" indulgence for the year. I go to the Park an average of 11 times a year and spend an average of $60 per visit on food and merchandise (yes, I've kept track, because sometimes it seems to be a lot more!). A rotating group of a dozen friends have been "recruited" into having passes over the years. The Park is our special place, where we meet up for breakfast on Sundays. Normally we can only get three or four of us together at a time. We spend 6 hours per trip on average socializing, eating, shopping and enjoying the atmosphere, entertainment and attractions, pretty much in that order. Our heaviest usage is from October to March and we usually avoid times when the place is packed with tourists, but make a point to go a couple of times during Christmas season, especially since the opening of Haunted Mansion Holiday.

I very rarely visit DCA, even though it is "included" in the AP price. There were a few in our group who met there regularly for drinks, dinner and a couple of rides on Friday nights the first year DCA was open; but over time the dining options became severely limited and DCA shortened its hours, which put a crimp in that group's outings. We all work long hours, mostly north of downtown LA and in the Pasadena/Glendale area, so it makes it very difficult to get to Anaheim before 7 or 8 pm. And, it's just not worth it to make the trek to hang out at Downtown Disney. If all we wanted to do was dinner and drinks we could do that in LA County.

I am grateful that the Annual Pass program is affordable for me, and provides me with a safe, clean and happy place to spend quality time with my friends. I wouldn't get to see them more than a couple of times a year without it. And I'd much rather spend time with them sitting under a tree on Main Street with a box of popcorn in hand, chatting away with turn-of-the century music wafting in the breeze as I did a couple of Sundays ago, than at a Christmas party or a restaurant!

In short: AP program = Good for me. If it were to go up significantly in price, I would have to cut it out of my budget, and probably spend more time and a portion of that money at The Grove, Hollywood and Highland or Burbank.

Loric
02-15-2004, 01:35 AM
A thought...

Restaurants and shops have operating and production costs. These are factored into the price of the item. What if Disney's take after your purchase minus the cost to them isn't enough to cover the attractions without the supplemental revenue from ticket sales?

This seems to be where things are going awry.. Think of it this way, DLR's prices for food and souveniers are on par with other parks. So, assuming WDW makes the same amount off their food and souveniers, relatively, that DLR does, but that WDW is capturing a higher gate revenue. That puts DLR on a much lower level of profit.

The the better comparison seems to be Universal Orlando Resort's two theme park annual passes versus DLR. They charge roughly the same rates - and have roughly the same pricing on food/souveniers.

DLR has higher operating costs. I'm fairly certain it employs more CMs and that alone would make a big difference. Second would be quality - Universal does not have the quality of food offerings that DLR does, with perhaps the exception of Mythos (rare 4-star in themepark restaurant - they cook with truffles)

But UO isn't "overcrowded" in the sense that DLR reports to be.

I guess my point is, there has to be a reason that "Cast Member Matt" doesn't like the system and that through the years I've heard several knowledgeable in the theme park business (imagineers, consultants, things like that) suggest a turn away from the AP system because it was killing profits at DLR.

Something with the way it's working at DLR has to be wrong - otherwise they wouldn't want to get rid of it. I mean, you can say you spend X amount of dollars - but apparently the financial figures don't suggest the proper amount of spending versus admission to justify it.

marron-cream
02-15-2004, 02:37 AM
There are many people who say that APs are a good thing, and that they go more often, and spend more money each visit than they would if they just went as regular guests once a year. But unfortunately it doesn't seem like they make up the bulk of the visitors... and then, of course, you have the debate as to whether or not APs have gained a sense of entitlement that makes a few of them giant jerks..

Loric
02-15-2004, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by marron-cream
There are many people who say that APs are a good thing, and that they go more often, and spend more money each visit than they would if they just went as regular guests once a year. But unfortunately it doesn't seem like they make up the bulk of the visitors... and then, of course, you have the debate as to whether or not APs have gained a sense of entitlement that makes a few of them giant jerks..

I think for the most part.. it's the debate wether or not it's just a "few" who are giant jerks. Even good APs will tell you the jerks exist.

stan4d_steph
02-15-2004, 07:01 AM
One benefit of the AP program is that it increases attendance in the "off-season" when fewer out of town tourists would be attending. This spreads out income over the whole year instead of concentrating it around the usual peak periods.

marron-cream
02-15-2004, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by stan4d_steph
One benefit of the AP program is that it increases attendance in the "off-season" when fewer out of town tourists would be attending. This spreads out income over the whole year instead of concentrating it around the usual peak periods.

One could argue that this just increases the wear and tear of the park... normally the off season would be a chance for things to recuperate, so to speak... but with the APs flooding in in the off season, nothing ever gets the chance. And the bulk of APs probably aren't doing any major spending. There are the exceptions of course, but on average, the kid from Garden Grove with the SoCal AP doesn't do much more than ride rides and leave.

Just playing devil's advocate.

cemeinke
02-15-2004, 08:42 AM
Of course you could check the Annual Report (http://adisney.go.com/corporate/investors/financials/annual/2003/pdfs/ar_2003.pdf) and see that in 2002, WDW's revenues were down $496 Million, where Disneyland was only down $40 (thanks to continued local attendance). Last year (2003) WDW's revenues dropped another $14 Million, while Disneyland increased $83 Million - Someone's spending more money at the park

Kevy Baby
02-15-2004, 08:51 AM
marron-cream:

My experience (as an AP for about 8 years running) is that rides ARE still closed for rehab in off-season. When Matterhorn had to have the OSHA complete infrastructure rebuild, they did it during the off seasons, opening for peak times (Christmas, spring break, summer, etc) and then shut it right back down. This went on consistently for a couple of years. Right after the holidays this year, there were several attractions that went down almost immediately for refurb. This too is consistent almost every January.

And as far the kids from Garden Grove just riding the rides and leaving: my experience is that they are just hanging around and smoking at the tables around the back side of Club Buzz (across from the Matterhorn).

sleepyjeff
02-15-2004, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by cemeinke
- Someone's spending more money at the park

:|

marron-cream
02-15-2004, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by Kevy Baby
And as far the kids from Garden Grove just riding the rides and leaving: my experience is that they are just hanging around and smoking at the tables around the back side of Club Buzz (across from the Matterhorn).

Either way, they're using resources while spending little, if no money.

This is just my opinion, based on what I see while working.

sleepyjeff
02-15-2004, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by Kevy Baby



And as far the kids from Garden Grove just riding the rides and leaving: my experience is that they are just hanging around and smoking at the tables around the back side of Club Buzz (across from the Matterhorn).

And this is just what every tourists wants to see:rolleyes: .

Like it or not, DLR is going to attempt to be a tourists destination again. The economy is getting better, tourists are starting to plan more vacations, and some of them might like to go to Disneyland rather than Disneyworld. Matt knows this. Gangs of kids smoking in a depressing Tomorrowland will need to be removed somehow.

MY Suggestion for Matt: Raise the price of the AP by about $400.00. Give the APs a card that they can use to get discounts at the stores and restuarants(not food carts). Track their(the APs) spending with this card. If the AP spends like a tourists with each and every visit......let the AP renew it the following year at a much, much cheaper price($150+/-). This will keep the crowds down, but still retain some of those APs who are bringing in the dough.:)

Pirate Girl
02-15-2004, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Not Afraid
I LOVE my AP. I meet up with friends at the DLR on a regular basis and treasure these meets. I also spend a WOD of cash at the park, so my PAP actually costs me a LOT more than $215 (remewal rate). We always joke that Michael Eisner should be sending us Christmas cards.;)

Sadly, for Disney, they would lose my frequent business if I didn't have an AP.

There are certainly many people who have issues with the AP Program, but, oh well. :)

It's the same with me. Because I don't spend money on an enterance to DL each time I go, I can spend more on souviniers, collectables, food, and extras. Ultimately, Disney makes more money off me if I have an Annual Pass. However, I do think that kids 12 and under should be required to be with a parent/gaurdien while in the park. This would cut down on the 'babysitting' problem with the AP.

Pirate Girl
02-15-2004, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by sleepyjeff
MY Suggestion for Matt: Raise the price of the AP by about $400.00. Give the APs a card that they can use to get discounts at the stores and restuarants(not food carts). Track their(the APs) spending with this card. If the AP spends like a tourists with each and every visit......let the AP renew it the following year at a much, much cheaper price($150+/-). This will keep the crowds down, but still retain some of those APs who are bringing in the dough.:)

Well, we could also jack up the price of a regular ticket by
$50.00, and require tourists to have CM's swipe their ticket after each purchase. If the tourists don't spend enough inside the park, they are never allowed back in.

Seriously, doing away with AP's is something that was already tried. Then Disney realized that Annual Pass holders were generating most of their income. Ultimatly charging them more to go to Disneyland is not a reasonable option, nor is discontinuing the Annual Pass Program...especially until they start making enough money to pay off DCA.

marron-cream
02-15-2004, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Pirate Girl
Seriously, doing away with AP's is something that was already tried. Then Disney realized that Annual Pass holders were generating most of their income. Ultimatly charging them more to go to Disneyland is not a reasonable option, nor is discontinuing the Annual Pass Program...especially until they start making enough money to pay off DCA.

They probably won't do away with the whole AP program, more than likely they'll discontinue the two lower tiers and significantly raise the price of the premium AP. And I'm sure they do have the numbers somewhere that say that APs don't spend as much as the day guests. APs are savvier.