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Cadaverous Pallor
02-19-2004, 03:57 PM
No, I'm not going to be the savior of the teacups, but I did a bit of digging.

http://www.dir.ca.gov/oshsb/

Apparently it's these guys that handle this stuff. Here's info on "fighting City Hall":
http://www.dir.ca.gov/oshsb/petitions.html


Petitions may be presented at the Board’s public meeting or submitted in writing as follows:
<snip>
2. Submitted in writing

Petitions submitted in writing should be mailed to the Occupational Safety and Health Standards Board, 2520 Venture Oaks Way, Suite 350, Sacramento, California 95833.

We could easily write up a letter/petition. Since hand-signed petitions always get more respect, we could each print out a copy at home and sign it (as well as get friends to sign it). Then we could shower them with mail.

BEFORE we do this, however, I think it's very important to understand exactly what happened and be able to respond in an informed fashion. I'm going to email them and see if we can't get some answers. Perhaps you all might want to do the same?

Cadaverous Pallor
02-21-2004, 10:14 AM
I got a response from OSHSB! (asterisks mine)


Dear Ms. *****, my name is Al Tafazoli and I am the Principal Safety Engineer for the Elevator, Ride and Tramway Unit for the State of California. Your e-mail has been forwarded to me by Mr. Len Welsh, Acting Chief, Division of Occupational Safety and Health, for my response. I would greatly appreciate it if you would call me at my office at (714) ***-**** so that I may update you with regard to the ride to which you have
expressed concern. Thank you.

I will give them a call on Monday. And no, I'm not going to post his phone number until I get his ok to do so. I'd rather I just got the facts and posted them, than have their office deluged before we know the whole story.

I'll update you guys next week.

Tigertail777
02-23-2004, 03:14 AM
Great to hear.. will look forward to what he has to say...

I just hope they dont put too much a "spin" on their story, for the life of me I cant understand why county fairs can have such rides but it seems Disneyland can't... plain bizarre.

Cadaverous Pallor
02-23-2004, 12:59 PM
Well, I tried calling today, and his secretary said that he's "out of town on business" and doesn't know when he'll be back. :rolleyes: I left a message but I'm sure we'll play phone tag for a while. I'll let you guys know when I hear anything.

If only I'd checked my email earlier on Friday.... :(

Moonliner
02-23-2004, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by Cadaverous Pallor
If only I'd checked my email earlier on Friday.... :(

If you think that would have helped you must be new at this politics game.

Out of town, don't know when he'll be back, that ranks right up there with "the dog ate my homework"

Since they don't know when he'll be back that gives you license to call back at least daily if not more often, you know just to check.

Andrew
02-23-2004, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Cadaverous Pallor
Well, I tried calling today, and his secretary said that he's "out of town on business" and doesn't know when he'll be back. :rolleyes: On an intergalactic cruise in his office, no doubt.

Moonliner
02-23-2004, 01:14 PM
Ohh, and not to be paranoid but of course he wants you to call. No paper (or electronic) trail that way.

Anyone know the laws about recording telephone calls in CA?
Do you need to announce?

cemeinke
02-23-2004, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by Moonliner
Ohh, and not to be paranoid but of course he wants you to call. No paper (or electronic) trail that way.

Anyone know the laws about recording telephone calls in CA?
Do you need to announce?

Yes, and you need consent from all parties

Andrew
02-23-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by cemeinke
Yes, and you need consent from all parties And good luck getting consent from a government official if you're not media.

Cadaverous Pallor
02-23-2004, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by Moonliner
If you think that would have helped you must be new at this politics game. Actually, that's why I rolled my eyes. But what made me think that I could have caught him was that according to my email account I got the email at 1:30pm Friday. Perhaps if I had called then, I could have caught him. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

But yeah, I'm going to drive his secretary nuts. :~D

I am going to take notes on everything he says, and repeat it back to him to make sure I got it right. In my first email I let him know that some of my friends were contacting the news on the subject. I'll remind him of this and let him know that I'm probably going to talk to a reporter as well. I'll ask if I can refer the reporter to his office for comments. I think that's even better than a "paper trail".

sambo
02-23-2004, 11:24 PM
Trust me - As a government employee, my experience is if someone comes to me asking questions designed to catch me in a precarious position, and mentioning bringing in the media, they get no service from me and are referred to a public information officer.

Those who approach me with concern over a problem and want to know what they can do to help solve the problem, or what they can do to change a situation - are the ones that get the service.

No one likes have the threat of media malexposure shoved in their faces. I wish you luck with your approach, but I doubt seriously you will get anywhere and may actually turn the guy off to those who are genuinely interested in knowing what they can do to fix the situation.


In my first email I let him know that some of my friends were contacting the news on the subject.

Do you think that this may be why he's "out of town on business"? :rolleyes:

Duh!

Cadaverous Pallor
02-24-2004, 09:22 AM
Then why did he tell me to call him? He could have ignored the email.

I thought my original email was polite. I did my best to show that I wanted the real story from him, and that I didn't want to start protesting something based on rumors. Here's the text of my original email, so you can tell me if I went wrong:


Hello, I live in Southern California and frequently visit Disneyland.
It has recently come to my attention that a ride at the park has been
altered. I have heard from various sources that the reason for the
change was California law regarding theme park safety, and it concerns
me. As you are the authority regarding such laws, I'd like you to
clarify the situation for me.

The Mad Tea Party at Disneyland is known for being A fast spinning
attraction that the riders get to control. The attraction has seen some
minor changes over the years but it's basically the same ride that has
been around since the park opened in 1955. But within the last couple
of months the spinning has been drastically reduced. Guests that
attempt to spin the teacups don't go very long before becoming exhausted.
The spin is slow and nowhere near as fun. A ride that has existed for
nearly 50 years with only minor incidents has now had all the fun
sucked out of it. I myself visited the ride, and let me tell you, it's
rather sad.

I heard a rumor regarding the reasons why the ride was drastically
slowed down. I read a report by Al Lutz, a trusted insider on
Disneyland information. Here is a link to the article, as well as a
quote from it regarding the incident (the quote is near the bottom on
the linked page).
http://miceage.com/allutz/al021904b.htm
---
<here I quoted Al>
---
So now I ask you - is this true? Did your office force Disneyland to
slow the Mad Tea Party to a crawl? And if so, is there a way that we,
the fans of the park and it's history, can affect that decision and help
get the teacups back to normal?

Friends of mine are contacting news agencies on this. I did not do so -
I wanted to know the full truth before I acted. In any case, I expect
that my letter isn't the last you are going to hear about this.

Please write me back regarding this, and direct me to any information
that would help me make a correct judgement on this case.

Thank you very much for your time.

Sincerely,

Kevy Baby
02-24-2004, 09:57 AM
Well stated CP. I look forward to the reponse.

You may well never get a response (as Sambo suggested). However, that you are documenting it creates the paper trail that is good grist for the mill.

Keep fighting the good fight!

Tigertail777
02-24-2004, 02:57 PM
I wrote a simular letter as well, politely asking the reasoning behind the change. I have yet to receive a reply, but I am sure they are busy down there.

sambo
02-24-2004, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by Cadaverous Pallor
Then why did he tell me to call him? He could have ignored the email.

I thought my original email was polite. I did my best to show that I wanted the real story from him, and that I didn't want to start protesting something based on rumors. Here's the text of my original email, so you can tell me if I went wrong:


Your email was fine. I just see a big difference between your email and...


But yeah, I'm going to drive his secretary nuts.

I am going to take notes on everything he says, and repeat it back to him to make sure I got it right. In my first email I let him know that some of my friends were contacting the news on the subject. I'll remind him of this and let him know that I'm probably going to talk to a reporter as well. I'll ask if I can refer the reporter to his office for comments.

I was responding to the attitude reflected in the above, which is very different than the email you quoted.

Cadaverous Pallor
02-25-2004, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by sambo
I was responding to the attitude reflected in the above, which is very different than the email you quoted. :D I'm good at making things sound nice when I'm actually dealing with people. I was so mad about the teacups but you should have seen how sweet I was to the CMs at City Hall. :)

Guess what? I got a call back from Mr. Tafazuli this morning. His words - "I really want to talk to you about this" "My pleasure", etc, he was very nice and accomodating. I'm going to call him back during my between-jobs-break at about 1pm. I'll post here when I've got the lowdown.

Whee, I'm excited!!! :D :D :D

Cadaverous Pallor
02-25-2004, 12:07 PM
I spoke with Mr. Al Tafazoli, Principal Safety Engineer for the Elevator, Ride, and Tramway Unit for the State of California.

He says that the state did NOT tell Disneyland to alter the Mad Tea Party in any way, shape or form.

He explained that when a company manufactures a ride, they provide the state with the specs, including top speed, maximum G-force, etc. The state does NOT dictate to ride manufacturers how fast rides can go. He compared it to auto manufacturers. Companies are free to make their rides as fast as they want - and the companies take on the liability for their actions.

When the state sent out people to inspect the Mad Tea Party, they were checking that everything was running up to specs - the specs that Disneyland provided to the government in the first place. They also verified operations policies. They found nothing wrong with the ride or it's operations.

According to Mr. Tafazoli, Disney itself made the decision to slow down the spinning, and not by any recommendation from his office.

Mr. Tafazoli said I can tell whoever I want, and if I have any more questions I can feel free to call/email him on it. I am about to email this info to Al Lutz, as well as the LA Times reporter that Moonliner contacted.

Looks like we'll keep marching on City Hall, but the one in Disneyland this time.

:)

Moonliner
02-25-2004, 12:20 PM
Great Job Cadaverous Pallor!!

One more piece to the puzzle. So Disney (at least according to Mr. Lutz) says it's the State, and the State says it's not them.

We have somewhat official word from the state perhaps we should see if we can get some official word from Disney corporate.

Anyone have any good contacts there?

I'm planning a trip to DL in early April and I NEED the teacups fixed before then!

Moonliner
02-25-2004, 12:23 PM
PS...

Cadaverous Pallor:

Just an after thought, could you check with Mr. Al Tafazoli and see if the report on the teacup incident is available on-line or through a freedom of information request?

Thanks.

tracilicious
02-25-2004, 12:26 PM
good job CP! i'm surprised that Al didn't verify information before he put it in his update. that's kind of annoying. we will be in DL in about a month and i will be sure to file a complaint. what is the best way to do it to make sure it gets documented?

Cadaverous Pallor
02-25-2004, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by Moonliner
Just an after thought, could you check with Mr. Al Tafazoli and see if the report on the teacup incident is available on-line or through a freedom of information request? Oops, I was going to ask about that....I'll drop him an email.

Disneyphile
02-25-2004, 12:46 PM
I have but one thing to say: CP, you rock!!!! :fez:

HBTiggerFan
02-25-2004, 12:49 PM
WAY TO GO CP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Totally e-mail Al. You even know an intrepid reporter and several minions if you wanted to go that route ;)

Kevy Baby
02-25-2004, 12:51 PM
Keep raking the muck CP

Cadaverous Pallor
02-25-2004, 01:41 PM
Hehe, thanks for the praise, but I really didn't do much. In fact it turned out to be an easier task than I though it would be. With the state denying any involvement, there won't be any fighting the REAL city hall, and that's the tricky part. I was prepared for letter writing campaigns etc.

As it is, we just go back to Disney.

I do enjoy the praise though ;)