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View Full Version : "Improving" FastPass, including SAC considerations



sediment
01-12-2004, 03:32 PM
Mine and others' ideas:
1. Make FastPass machines able to print FastPasses for any specific ride, based on the central computer's programming about the day's crowds and ride demands. Perhaps start by replacing one machine at each location with an any-ride machine. Expandable if popularity increases.
I get off Splash Mountain and the first thing I could do is to go to the Splash Mountain FastPass machine and get a FastPass for Indy. Now I can leisurely stroll in the NOS shops for that perfect gift on the way to Indy, or take in HM on the way there without doubling back. Less doubling back means less crowding of the walkways (I think). If I'm doubling back, I'm not strolling and buying.

3. Piggyback SAC FastPass programming that provide return times earlier than the non-SAC times. Acceptable at exits for some parties. An AP's ticket might have a permanent exemption, approved by Disney guest relations (see AVP for ADA requirements). Those without exemptions will have to ask daily for the SAC as they do now.

4. Allow for more FastPasses per guest at any given time, but the FastPass time for FastPass #2 ride will be some time after FastPass#1's time. Say, 30 minutes to an hour.
So, the first thing you can do in the morning is to determine your order of rides (clockwise or counter-clockwise), and get all your FastPasses at once, if that's how you want to do DL for the day.

5. Allow FastPasses to be turned in before their expiration instead of being used, in order to get a FastPass for a different ride. Another efficiency in line management.

mountainrange
01-12-2004, 04:34 PM
great ideas, but the price of these endeavors would scare away any disney exec before they would even consider them,

what about a no waiting in line, all unlimited fastpass systemwhere everyone only gets in line minutes before their due on. Sure it would crowd up the walkways, but with all those people shopping (presumably) Mr. eisner and co. could love the idea.

sediment
01-12-2004, 04:44 PM
From what my limited mind can see, there would only be software upgrades (programming, mostly), maybe some more flexible printers (upgrade as they break down). The major hardware is already in place. Just need a few more at the front gate, maybe reconfigure the Fantasyland ride lines a bit, change the signs at the FastPasses.
Big font on the "Guest can leisurely stroll through shops instead of running for FastPasses = $millions" PowerPoint slide.

Maybe people can hold those big restaurant-style hockey pucks that light up to tell them when their Splash Mountain log is ready?

Forbin
01-12-2004, 04:52 PM
We currently have that Mountain. It's called stand-by :)

The problem with the unlimited FP is that people are people. The crowd up the hallways 20 minutes before their time on the chance that they can get in early. It's just human.

6) Move all FP machines to the front, Behind AAA counter?

7) You can have 1 FP per hour you plan to be there, if you plan 6 hours and you leave early, your FP goes wasted, you stay 8? Well you get 2 hours of standby. Each FP is worth 30 minutes. That should give you time to walk. If you miss it, you miss it. Pass Done (People will NOT like this)

8) Lunch (If you want) can be planned into the FP system. But you do waste an hour.

9) Spare tickets will print for other attractions while you are walking there. (Going to Indy? Check out TikiTiki). Going to SM? Check out Innovetions...hehe.. ADVERTISING!

10) To help the people shopping, if you get your pass validated in a shop you get the full hour instead of 30mins.. (Shopping!)

hazlnut
01-12-2004, 05:37 PM
I've recently begun to believe that FP's are not the main problem. It's us AP's.

Here's a solution I just thought of--and this is similar to something used at Mountain High Ski resort. You 'book' your visit in advance.

Say you've got your Prem. AP and you want to go on a Saturday in three weeks. You dial a number, enter a number, and poof... your booked for that day--or do it on line. Sat, Sun, weekdays, and Holidays would all have different ceilings as to the number of AP's that can be admitted.

This would eliminate a lot of the drop-off baby sitting that goes on--people who let their teenagers run around like packs of wild dogs.

But most importantly, it would cut down on the number of guests in the park, make lines shorter, and make everybody happier.

sediment
01-12-2004, 05:42 PM
I don't want all the FastPass machines moved. I'd rather have them wherever I happen to be in the park, or right where they currently are. It will cost a lot less, too. There's also not enough room in any one area of the park that can handle the first hour's visitors, much less the number of FastPass machines.
With FP machines currently stationed, the faster folks can jump right on rides first thing, and then worry about FastPasses as they go along. No running all over. No running back to a central area. You want a FP for a certain ride? Go to any machine and get it.
Also, I don't want to be forced to plan my whole day in the morning, or else not be able to use FP.. I know some people might, but I don't. I like being creative with my day. I might want to go on a ride more than once or twice.
Last time I was there, my son and I went on 14 rides in 8 hours (both parks). And that's after waiting for BTMRR to go off 101 (back in May, I think) for about 30 minutes. Every time someone left the queue, we moved up.

OK, let's go all creativeering: Pal Mickey, which doubles as a FP holder! No tickets, all electronically stored in Pal Mickey! Pal Mickey tells the CM that the group has a FastPass. CM does something to Pal Mickey and the FastPass is processed and deleted from Pal Mickey.

sediment
01-12-2004, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by hazlnut
I've recently begun to believe that FP's are not the main problem. It's us AP's.
Here's a solution I just thought of--and this is similar to something used at Mountain High Ski resort. You 'book' your visit in advance.
Say you've got your Prem. AP and you want to go on a Saturday in three weeks. You dial a number, enter a number, and poof... you're booked for that day--or do it on line. Sat, Sun, weekdays, and Holidays would all have different ceilings as to the number of AP's that can be admitted.
This would eliminate a lot of the drop-off baby sitting that goes on--people who let their teenagers run around like packs of wild dogs.
But most importantly, it would cut down on the number of guests in the park, make lines shorter, and make everybody happier.
Of course it's the APs. And FP, and abusive SAP holders, and low ride capacity, and the boil on the butt next door that prevents improvements in The Original,....
I don't think most AP holders will appreciate having to plan their outings in advance. Interesting idea, but then what about the no-shows who book but don't show up? They shut out an otherwise eligible AP holder from coming. And who's to say that DLR would not stoop to fixing the capacity numbers so more day-payers (or APs-for-an-additional $20'ers) can attend and have a great time without AP holders filling the walkways? I can't vouch for anyone's ethics there. (I don't know any of them.)
And I don't see how this prevents the drop-offs. They'd simply plan the drop-off in advance. Call for every Saturday.
I like it only because it allows DLR to plan for heavy days. You see, as a division of a company dedicated to service, DLR needs to plan its days in advance. It shouldn't be nbecessary for AP holders to plan their days for the benefit of a division of a company.
How about a voluntary system at first? I'm sure DLR would like to know how many people plan to come on 4-July, so it can plan accordingly. Third Fantasmic (and third dessert)? Extra fireworks at midnight? More boats in Small World? More food to order? Sure, it has an idea today what it might be like (70,000 or so), but to get a tighter hold of that number might be a good idea.

cemeinke
01-12-2004, 06:05 PM
Why not replace FP with a bidding-style auction. Your place in line is determined by how much you're willing to pay to be in front of the last guy. You only spend what the wait time is worth to you, and Disney has another revenue stream.

sediment
01-12-2004, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by cemeinke
Why not replace FP with a bidding-style auction. Your place in line is determined by how much you're willing to pay to be in front of the last guy. You only spend what the wait time is worth to you, and Disney has another revenue stream.
That sounds like a fun day at Disneyland. Some of us want to escape the dreary world of e-Bay.

cemeinke
01-12-2004, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by sediment
That sounds like a fun day at Disneyland. Some of us want to escape the dreary world of e-Bay.

And you can - for a price ;)

Forbin
01-12-2004, 07:47 PM
We have that at disneyland already. It's called The Guided Tour. A CM follows you around and you get on all the rides First!.

Of course this is a costly way to enjoy DL each time.

Much easier for a person to Lie to get a SAP. See why people do it?

hazlnut
01-12-2004, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by sediment
Of course it's the APs. And FP, and abusive SAP holders, and low ride capacity, and the boil on the butt next door that prevents improvements in The Original,....
I don't think most AP holders will appreciate having to plan their outings in advance. Interesting idea, but then what about the no-shows who book but don't show up? They shut out an otherwise eligible AP holder from coming. And who's to say that DLR would not stoop to fixing the capacity numbers so more day-payers (or APs-for-an-additional $20'ers) can attend and have a great time without AP holders filling the walkways? I can't vouch for anyone's ethics there. (I don't know any of them.)
And I don't see how this prevents the drop-offs. They'd simply plan the drop-off in advance. Call for every Saturday.
I like it only because it allows DLR to plan for heavy days. You see, as a division of a company dedicated to service, DLR needs to plan its days in advance. It shouldn't be nbecessary for AP holders to plan their days for the benefit of a division of a company.
How about a voluntary system at first? I'm sure DLR would like to know how many people plan to come on 4-July, so it can plan accordingly. Third Fantasmic (and third dessert)? Extra fireworks at midnight? More boats in Small World? More food to order? Sure, it has an idea today what it might be like (70,000 or so), but to get a tighter hold of that number might be a good idea.

Very good points. AP and FP both need fixin' they probably won't get anytime soon.

The Mouse Is Back
01-12-2004, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by hazlnut
I've recently begun to believe that FP's are not the main problem. It's us AP's.

Agreed about the APs, but not all APs are the "ugly" variety.

We have had APs since they started selling them, and before that we had what was called the seasonal passport. which I believe was for Southern California ONLY residents. Correct me if I am wrong, anyone who remembers those passes and knows different.

For the past couple of years we have had our APs but haven't gone to DL very much due to real life situations.

In just the month or so since we started going again, I've seen the FP problems - scamming, hogging, etc. - and we have actually taken the standby route except for a few times during Christmas week, just because...well...because I don't want to be lumped in with that whole mess. And you know what? It has been fun to stand in the line and look at all the neat stuff built in to the waiting time, things I had totally forgotten or just didn't notice when zipping thru a FP line. It was wonderful standing outside of IASWH for 20 minutes and just looking at the lights. Awesome!

I said it in another thread, but I would gladly give up our APs and FP if we could just go on a weekday during the winter and actually see a slow day again.

The SoCal Resident thing is totally out of control as well. Jeez, give it a rest already, there has to be some time of the year when they can allow people to just enjoy themselves without crowds everywhere.

So I guess what I'm saying is - get rid of 'em both, APs AND FP!!!

And SoCal Resident in springtime only! And limit the ZIP codes again!!



-Allegra-

ModHatter
01-12-2004, 11:21 PM
I'll say it again... if they made it easier to visit both parks in one day (eliminate the non-hopper concept, build a Peoplemover to DCA, and a Monorail stop in Condor Flats), build a hiking path and/or DLRR station north of Hungry Bear, and spent some time and money getting TL back up to speed, the AP bashing would end.

Out of ALL the AP holders, how many have Premium APs? If they don't have Premium passports, they're already blacked out from key dates. So blaming APers every time there's a bottleneck in the one way in or out of NOS isn't very realistic.

Yes, the FP software needs improving. The main improvement, in my experience, is that more emphasis needs to be placed on the expiration time. But DL also needs to have basic traffic improvements. And, of course, they need to have more than 6 out of 10 major Tomorrowland attractions. (And I am being generous to consider HISTA, Innoventions, and the former Rocket Jets as major attractions. And despite my personal bias, the Monorail is kind of a stretch for the average guest, so really there are 2 passable attractions out of a possible 10.)

sediment
01-13-2004, 07:39 AM
Sorry, folks. That first line was just the standard list of major crowding problems of Disneyland. It should also have included Ghosttownland, er Tomorrowland.
I would guess about half of AP holders have PAPs.

TMIB notes the deep problem with FP: it takes away some of the immersive experience. Turns the place into a ride-only park. Takes away the uniqueness of Disneyland. Turns it into a SFMM.
Either you wait 30 minutes in an immersive line, or you wait 30 minutes in a shop and then wait 5 minutes in line. I know what Pressler wanted you to do. And we know that can only be bad.

Allowing unlimited park-hopping would screw up the vacation-destination model. Hotels were built/remodeled based on the assumption that people would stay a few days at the resort, as opposed to staying somewhere more centralized among the area's attractions. Yeah, bad idea in the first place, I agree.