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Werner
01-10-2004, 09:11 PM
I can't believe this day would ever come, but I'm actually thinking of not going to the Park during a visit to the LA area later this month.

It sounds as though the lack of E Tickets up and running, the general depression of Tomorrowland, and overall fading of the usual Magic Kingdom sparkle make a pilgrimmage less than inspiring.

I'm afraid it might be better to just hold on to my fond memories rather than risk disillusionment, but maybe I'm overreacting.

Somebody, please give me a reality check.

kijay
01-10-2004, 09:21 PM
IMHO GO! Have fun and forget all this negative stuff. I am going in May, irregardless of what anyone says. There is still a lot up and running. I was trying to put together an earlier trip, but a knee injury wiped that out. I know there is a lot wrong, and things aren't what they used to be, but I still believe in the magic of Disneyland (and I always will). Go, and have a darn good time.:D

DrIndianaJones
01-10-2004, 09:38 PM
Just got back from the park myself, (I live in Colorado) and I would highly recommend at least a quick drop in to the park.
Do you have an annual pass? If not, ask yourself, will you return within the next 12 months? If yes, strongly consider getting one, because you never know if you have time on your hands and want to drop by for a quick ride on the Matterhorn (if that was possible:)) or perhaps just a stroll around a very magical, and fun place.

MonorailMan
01-10-2004, 09:46 PM
Go! No wait, don't go! Nahh, just Go!

It's hard to say, I feel so biased, being a PAP and all. :p

DrIndianaJones
01-10-2004, 09:47 PM
I was almost a PAP, but opted for a DAP this time...my wallet is feeling really light as of late.:p

Tutter
01-10-2004, 09:49 PM
I was last there in November and I had a wonderful time as always - definately go. It's great to see how things change or your old favourites as well as the shops even. Don't miss it I'd say.

Ace
01-11-2004, 12:17 AM
The people on these boards make everything seem so much worse than it actually is. Even they are hard pressed to go to Disneyland and not enjoy themselves (barring other things including crowds, weather, and the National Stroller Association's Anaheim Chapter). No, the Matterhorn might not be as big as you remember and the paint might be a little faded, but c'est la vie. I read about the "horrid" shape Disneyland is in on these boards a lot (though not as often as I used to) and when I go it's still as much fun as ever.

disneydreams
01-11-2004, 01:07 AM
the hell with Disneyland negativity! Even if there're some rides that are down and being refurbished/remodeled/down, you can still have a good time just standing in Town Square looking at Sleeping Beauty Castle through the Hub down Main Street :)
Makes my heart feel really good every time.

Yeah sure the rides are fun and all, but IMO, it's the magic that lives there. oh ho! but it's not just any magic, it's disney magic (lovely phrase eh? it's my AIM sn ). come to think of it, not many of my friends realize the disney magic exists. They just think of it as any other theme park. why don't they? :( am i sounding stupid? sometimes I get scared telling ppl why I love DL so much cuz I think they'd think I'm stupid and don't know I'm talking about...ppl ask "Why do you like Disney/Disneyland so much" me being afraid of sounding stupid: "you wouldn't understand" and they keep trying to get me to tell 'em :rolleyes:

and then someone talks about losing innocence leads to maturity. ahem. and mentions DL and when you're young you believe in all the magic and the characters are real but now that you're older you LOSE innocence and realize there's no magic and the characters are fake. I got really mad (inside) EXCUSE you! how do you know there's no magic in DL?! agh! practical practical person.
I'm talking too much about stuff that's extraneous.

ANYWAY!
Go on your favorite attractions and if some of 'em are down, look on the bright side! the next time you visit LA/Anaheim/DLR, it'll be up and working maybe better than it was before! :)

ahahaha
we had a science final exam 3-night trip to Catalina Island near the end of the school year, and on the way back after that .5-1 hour boat ride I think, we got to LAX and couldn't stop thinking about DL cuz I was SO close to it I could've ran from LAX there if I wanted to. AAH so hard to resist DL. kept saying "I wanna go to Disneyland. I wanna go to Disneyland" 'til I got slapped in the head and uh, ahem, butt several times by my best friend trying to snap me out of it.sorry just had to share that story :D

danyoung
01-11-2004, 06:07 AM
I went through the same situation a few years ago, when Mr. Lutz was still here at Mouseplanet. You'd think from everything written here that a trip to Disneyland would be worse than a trip to a broken down county fair. I almost didn't go to DL on an L.A. visit, for fear that I'd be terribly disappointed. I talked myself into it anyway, and wonder of wonders, the park was still a cool place to visit! Sure, if I made a list of the problems that were being written about, and scurried from place to place to check them out, I'd see that all the writing was basically true. But all of those problems still did not take away from the fact that I was in one of my favorite places on the planet, with memories that go back for me to my first visit in 1962. Hey, the wooden indian that Mom yelled at me to quit climbing is still there. And look, Snow White's Grotto has just as much enchantment as it always did! Don't go to see the problems - go to enjoy the magic!

Now, with all of that said, I'd not be spending too much time in Tomorrowland if I were you. It's the one area that currently lives up to the negative hype. Catch an early morning ride on the new Autopia, which is pretty cool, and see Honey I Shrunk the Audience if you haven't burned out on it yet. And definitely travel with Star Tours - it still holds up for me. Other than that, sadly there just ain't much there.

kijay
01-11-2004, 05:02 PM
Just goes to show, if you want to have a good time, you will. If you want to have a bad time, you will. It is solely up to you as to what kind of trip you have. I have been very encouraged with the recent changes I have read about, and will be making a trip in late May. True, I'll miss Space Mountain, but hey, there is Pirates, Splash, Indy, and yes, there are some rides at DCA that I really enjoy (Screamin, Grizzly, Soarin). Just to be able to be there and take in all the sights and sounds, and see how much happiness it brings my wife and kids is enough for me. :p

ESS Heckler
01-11-2004, 06:25 PM
Yes - GO!

Remember the people on these boards are a tough audience with a very critical eye.

To the 'casual traveler' Disneyland is as much fun as you want it to be.

I'll be there next week with my BF, my mom (who hasn't been in over 30 years) my brother (who is not going of his own free will) my sister-in-law (with whom I orginally planned the trip) and their Japanese exchange student.

We are planning on having a wonderful time, and taking the information and opinions offered here with a grain of salt.

sleepyjeff
01-11-2004, 09:49 PM
I guess Eisner knows what he is doing. People who know that his park pales in comparison to it's former glory are still going and encouraging others to go. I am not saying don't go--I go religiously once a year(sometimes twice). But how can Eisner be blamed for ruining the Park if his toughest critics are also his most ardent supporters?

Why keep the Motor Boat Cruise running when not running it saves money and changes no ones mind about coming to the Park?

Why re-thatch the Tiki Room Roof when not re-thatching the roof saves money and changes no ones mind about coming to the Park?

Why re-open the Subs when not re-opening the Subs saves money(alot of money) and changes no ones mind about coming to the Park?

Why operate full service Restuarants with atmosphere when not doing so will save money and change no minds about coming to the Park?



My favorite Hockey team is the Chicago Black Hawks....a team that will never win the Stanley Cup in my life time....why? Because they have more loyal fans then the last 15 winners of the Stanley Cup combined............the owners have no incentive to put a winning team on the ice because the fans will still come out no matter how awful they are.

I see a lot of similatities between my favorite Hockey team and my favorite vacation destination.


:crying:

danyoung
01-12-2004, 04:10 AM
Originally posted by sleepyjeff
But how can Eisner be blamed for ruining the Park if his toughest critics are also his most ardent supporters?

You make some interesting arguments there, sleepyjeff. And I tend to agree with the fact that, as long as park attendence keeps going up, there isn't much incentive to make things better under the current regime. That's one of the main differences from the Walt days - Walt wanted to keep plussing his park, making sure the park would be impressive not just for today's visitors, but tomorrow's as well.

As to Eisner, I guess the difference is between saying "Eisner is ruining the parks" and "Eisner has ruined the parks". They're not ruined by any means, but they could be doing so much better with new management at the top, IMO.

mad4mky
01-12-2004, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by Werner
I can't believe this day would ever come, but I'm actually thinking of not going to the Park during a visit to the LA area later this month.

It sounds as though the lack of E Tickets up and running, the general depression of Tomorrowland, and overall fading of the usual Magic Kingdom sparkle make a pilgrimmage less than inspiring.

I'm afraid it might be better to just hold on to my fond memories rather than risk disillusionment, but maybe I'm overreacting.

Somebody, please give me a reality check.

Geez...if you have to ask others for their opinions on whether or not to go to the park...then by all means...Don't go.

If you can't figure out for yourself whether Disneyland is a place for you to be...then just don't go.

danyoung
01-12-2004, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by mad4mky
Geez...if you have to ask others for their opinions on whether or not to go to the park...then by all means...Don't go.

If you can't figure out for yourself whether Disneyland is a place for you to be...then just don't go.

Sorry, but I completely disagree with this, mad4mky. It's easy to get the impression from reading on this site and others that the place is an absolute dump. It's just not true, but you've gotta see how reading day in and day out without direct personal experience could get pretty depressing. As I said above, the same thing happened to me, and I was really surprised to find that, even though there were problems, the park was still an amazing place, and well worth my time to visit.

It's not a matter of whether Disneyland is a place for Werner to be. It's about whether the place is still the same as he remembered it.

kijay
01-12-2004, 11:58 AM
I also think sleeypyjeff is making some very good points. But it is just so hard not to go. And danyoung, you are right about Eisner. Walt cared so much, it just goes to show the quality of man Walt was, and what a slime ball lowlife Eisner is. Walt cared about quality, of constant improvement. Eisner only cares about money, and how much he can make for himself. Eisner isn't man enough to tie Walts shoes, let alone run his company. To think that a man as great as Walt has to have his company led by such a worthless slime is enough to turn my stomach. I honestly believe that Walt would have had nothing to do with Eisner, let alone give him such an important job. Maybe he would have let Eisner clean the urinals, but probably not.:p

danyoung
01-12-2004, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by kijay
Walt cared so much, it just goes to show the quality of man Walt was, and what a slime ball lowlife Eisner is.

While I've gone on record as agreeing with those who think the Disney company would be better off in the long run with Eisner's retirement, I can't go along with the slime ball lowlife comments. Everyone wants him to be another Uncle Walt, but that just isn't the focus of the company today. The stockholders have spoken - give us another 27 cents a share and we'll let you live! I just think he's looking at things from a different perspective, a viewpoint of "what can I cut back on to make the profits look better?" I (and most long time Disney fans) prefer more of a "what can I do to make the parks and movies better, and hence make more profits" viewpoint. Both will work, but the latter one is by far the harder.

Mike had it in him in '84. He doesn't have it now.

iwannabeanimagineer
01-12-2004, 03:27 PM
My reasons to go:
Indiana Jones Adventure
Splash Mountain
Pirates of the Caribbean
The Haunted Mansion
Dumbo's Flying Elephants
The Mad Tea Party
The Matterhorn
Star Tours
Mint Juleps
Grizzly River Run
Soarin' Over California
California Screamin'
Maliboomer
It's Tough To Be A Bug
Bug's Land
The Grand Californian Hotel
The Looks On My Kids' Faces
The Anywhere-But-Here Escapism

Reasons not to go:
Cost
Sore feet

The "ayes" have it.

iwannabeanimagineer
01-12-2004, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by sleepyjeff
Why keep the...running when not running it saves money and changes no ones mind about coming to the Park? [repeated numerous times about different attractions]

This appears to be an accurate portrayal of the current management philosophy. I believe this philosophy will ultimately fail for a number of reasons:
1. The assumption that timid investment in the Park does not affect visitor numbers is unproven and I believe it to be false. Visitor numbers would probably be much higher if investment were at the proper levels accompanied by proper Imagineering and management.
2. The philosophy ignores the fact that today's visitors decided to visit the park years ago and that tomorrow's visitors are making their decisions about future travel today. In other words: investment in the 1990's pays off at the ticket booth in 2000-2010. Today's investment will pay off in 2010-2020. Enchanting a visitor under 12 will reap huge rewards when that visitor is over 18. Investing timidly and not enchanting that visitor reaps only the profit from his first visit.
3. Visitors to The Disneyland Resort will assume that all other Disney resorts, cruises, etc. are of equal quality and will make their future decisions accordingly.

In my opinion, short-sighted thinking and the associated timid investment at DLR are not only squandering the magic of the Disney brand, but pinching today's penny at the cost of tomorrow's dollar.

wendybeth
01-12-2004, 03:59 PM
Park attendance was initially lowered by the terror attacks, but I think they are now probably higher because of them. Many people are opting to stay within the U.S. during their vacations, and so domestic tourism is climbing. (I know several people that have gone to DL and WDW rather than their usual european vacations). Anyway, here's a compromise- go, stay at a nice offsite hotel, and don't buy any merchandise in the parks. They claim AP's are damaging the bottom line, so if you are going for more than a few days, buy at least one! The specials they are running on multi day park hoppers can't be bringing in too much for them; they want you to stay at their hotels and buy their stuff- so don't. We are going in April- this has been in the works since last June, so we can't really cancel, but we do not intend to spend much beyond our pass costs on property.:)

sleepyjeff
01-12-2004, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by wendybeth
.... here's a compromise- go, stay at a nice offsite hotel, and don't buy any merchandise in the parks. They claim AP's are damaging the bottom line, so if you are going for more than a few days, buy at least one! The specials they are running on multi day park hoppers can't be bringing in too much for them; they want you to stay at their hotels and buy their stuff- so don't. We are going in April- this has been in the works since last June, so we can't really cancel, but we do not intend to spend much beyond our pass costs on property.:)

That's a great idea! Go(suck up what magic is left---there's plenty for all), but don't spend any extra money there that will only embolden Eisner into damaging the Park even more.

Ok, ok....but just one Churro:)
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#19

sneekin-in
01-12-2004, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by sleepyjeff
That's a great idea! Go(suck up what magic is left---there's plenty for all), but don't spend any extra money there that will only embolden Eisner into damaging the Park even more.

Ok, ok....but just one Churro:)
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#19

Sleepyjeff, I thought you were an Eisner fan:confused: In some of
your other postings you actually called Michael Eisner a visionary:eek:

sleepyjeff
01-12-2004, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by sneekin-in
Sleepyjeff, I thought you were an Eisner fan:confused: In some of
your other postings you actually called Michael Eisner a visionary:eek:

NO! He has no Vision..........Please point these postings out. I really don't think Eisner has done anything good for DL in over 10 years.

:cool:

danyoung
01-13-2004, 05:20 AM
Originally posted by wendybeth
Anyway, here's a compromise- go, stay at a nice offsite hotel, and don't buy any merchandise in the parks. They claim AP's are damaging the bottom line, so if you are going for more than a few days, buy at least one! The specials they are running on multi day park hoppers can't be bringing in too much for them; they want you to stay at their hotels and buy their stuff- so don't.

I don't understand your logic here. You go with the theory (unproven) that AP's are damaging the bottom line by visiting the parks frequently but not staying in park hotels or buying merchandise. Your suggestion - buy an AP, don't stay in park hotels, don't buy merch. I don't get it. If your theory is true, then you're advocating additional hurting of the Disney company, while you still go and enjoy the parks. Don't make no sense to me.

jrad32
01-13-2004, 08:45 AM
Well I say don't go. I haven't been since Oct. 2002. I'll be in SoCal in February and will not go. I thought about it, but decided I won't go back until they get their act together.

With Tommorowland in ruins, Big Thunder down, Space Mountain down the Mark Twain down, no subs, keel boats, motorboat cruise, peoplemover, limited monorail capacity and an overall park that is too crowded because of lack of ride capacity I'll pass for the time being. Don't even get me started on DCA.

At this point if I want to do Disney I feel I get a better value going to WDW, although it obviously costs a lot more since I'm on the West Coast.

I'm starting to get cautiously excited about 2005. The return of Space Mountain, plus Buzz Lightyear to go along with a new parade, the history exhibit, and a fully operational Big Thunder and the Tower of Terror at DCA will probably get me back by then.