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Kuzcotopia
12-31-2003, 03:54 PM
The one effect that I always wish they'd change and update on Pirates is the fire.

The fire effect always looked like a stand-in effect to me, even as a kid. Now it's just kind of "expected" I think... an effect that's invisible because everyone just got used to it being so cheezy.

I say, let's get real fire effects. Indy has real fire, why not Pirates?

Heck, lame rides at Universal have real fire, and have had it for decades. Kong had real fire, Backdraft obviously has fire, Earthquake has fire, Jaws has fire.... etc etc.

Pirates of the Carribean should have REAL FIRE, not fans blowing on cellophane.


Who else here agrees?

MonorailMan
12-31-2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Kuzcotopia
Who else here agrees?

Yes. However, it shows how a 1960's attraction can seem as if the fire is real.

While I do agree with the fact that Disneyland should not be a museum, the POTC fire effect works for me, and changing would, would just change some of the charm of the attraction.

DisneyDustin22
12-31-2003, 04:59 PM
dont get me wrong. silk sheets blowing against a fan with an orange light on them can be cheesy, but what you have to remember is, yes, Kong has fire, Earthquake, and Indy. but those fire effects appear in spurts. Indys fire effects flare up onec every 15seconds or so. Kong and Earthquake, everytime a tram comes through, so thats like a few times every 5 or 6 minutes. With Pirates, its running for hours and hours at a time with no stops, every day of the year. (ecluding 101's and refurbs) so part of it is basic safety, another part could be technical. but this is probably going to start a countless thread debate. so lets see what everyone else has to say....

Cadaverous Pallor
12-31-2003, 05:03 PM
I say add real fire in some spots but keep the main background fake fire. Like DisneyDustin says there's no way they could make the whole scene fire filled. And think about how often the fire on Indy isn't even working.

But real fire in certain spots (the torches the pirates hold, buildings that are closer to the boats) would be awesome.

BTW, it has eternally bothered me that the scenes with fire in them are not hot! It doesn't have to be sweltering, but at least warm would be good.

DisneyFan25863
12-31-2003, 05:52 PM
There once was a real fire in POTC. People got scared. I think that having real fire may make some people think the place actually is on fire. :|

9oldmen
12-31-2003, 06:14 PM
Wouldn't adding real fire mean completely re-designing the whole building from the ground up, to incorporate the gas tanks, and everything? Also, I don't see this happening after they scuttled the plans to re-do the attraction with the "flaming skull".

Morrigoon
12-31-2003, 09:14 PM
Pirates takes 2 hours to evacuate... Would you want to add risk to that?

RStar
01-01-2004, 12:44 AM
They added nice smoke effects recently, that helps.

I think they could add some heat like in Mr. Toad.

I always wondered why it didn't smell smokey when in a burning city. A little liquid smoke added to the air circulation would be a nice touch too. But real fire would only make the other fake fire look realy bad, and may be dangerous.

Uncle Dick
01-01-2004, 12:48 AM
I think I'd prefer to see existing fire effects (e.g. burning cabin on TSI) restored before any attempts are made to add them elsewhere.

TheatreTech
01-01-2004, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by RStar
They added nice smoke effects recently, that helps.

I think they could add some heat like in Mr. Toad.

I always wondered why it didn't smell smokey when in a burning city. A little liquid smoke added to the air circulation would be a nice touch too. But real fire would only make the other fake fire look realy bad, and may be dangerous. Exactly what I was thinking. Making it hotter in that scene would add to the effect.

And, good point. Real fire in some places (although cool) would make the fake fire look...well, "faker".:|

sleepyjeff
01-01-2004, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Uncle Dick
I think I'd prefer to see existing fire effects (e.g. burning cabin on TSI) restored before any attempts are made to add them elsewhere.

Here, here!

:)

RStar
01-01-2004, 06:12 PM
So True UD!

And nice to see you around!

Klutch
01-01-2004, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by DisneyFan25863
There once was a real fire in POTC. People got scared. I think that having real fire may make some people think the place actually is on fire. :|

Are you sure about that? I recall reading in several sources that when POTC was first inspected by the fire department before opening, they thought the fire was real, and had to be reassured it was an illusion. Of course, this could be just another urban legend in print.

DisneyFan25863
01-01-2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by Klutch
Are you sure about that? I recall reading in several sources that when POTC was first inspected by the fire department before opening, they thought the fire was real, and had to be reassured it was an illusion. Of course, this could be just another urban legend in print.


Yes, there was once a real fire in the fire scene. Happened in the late 60's, I believe. That is where the melted pole came from in the fire scene. There is a small thing about it in the first MouseTails Book :)

TheatreTech
01-01-2004, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by DisneyFan25863
Yes, there was once a real fire in the fire scene. Happened in the late 60's, I believe. That is where the melted pole came from in the fire scene. There is a small thing about it in the first MouseTails Book :)

Melted pole? Can you describe where? (I wanna look for it...I mean...is it actually still in the attraction?):confused:

sambo
01-02-2004, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by RStar
They added nice smoke effects recently, that helps.

I think they could add some heat like in Mr. Toad....




They used to blow in hot air at the last part where you are under the flaming town, just before the uphill waterfall. I remember people commenting on how it felt like a real fire...

They probably don't do it anymore because of something like the Indy Ice Machine...;)

Tigertail777
01-02-2004, 04:01 AM
You know, I THOUGHT I remembered the burning town feeling much warmer than now... but wasnt sure. Yes heat and smoke smells would be awesome. Also I have to wonder with all of our new technology isnt there some way to make more realistic fake fire? Like you know those fiberoptic ad boards that are programmed with a computer? And another thing that would add some magic, is put some kind of flame sparks in there floating on the air either something akin to the fireflies, or perhaps just projections onto fog (ala the indy rats fx), or what would be really neat is have parts falling off the burning city that look like they are going to hit you, and then have a timed splash in the water like it missed (again the indy rats projection effect). Like that one part where you look up and see chairs and stuff about to fall through the burned remains of the town.
I really think they could make the burning town scene something truly eye-popping again if they would invest in it.

One more thing.... is it just me, or do they need to add more flaming crackling sounds to the soundtrack? I somehow find it hard to beleive a chorus of Yo-ho would drown out the fire noises.

Laffite
01-02-2004, 06:47 AM
Speaking of potc, guess what I saw they added (unless it was already there but had never worked 400 times I rode it before).

cemeinke
01-02-2004, 08:42 AM
I Don't know if you need "real" fire. When I first rode as a kid, I was convinced enough that it was real, and as I returned I loved taking a longer look to see the many ways Disney worked to make the effect more realistic.

Add real fire, and I'd do the same I suppose - look for the how the gas lines are hiden, etc. All these rides require a little suspension of disbelief - theming is great, but guests still need to bring along their imaginations for the magic to happen.

Kuzcotopia
01-02-2004, 08:47 AM
I guess I wasn't convinced enough as a kid that it was real fire.

Not that "real" means anything. I doubt anybody older than a toddler believes the Pirates are real people.

But as far as SPECTACLE goes, which has to do with wowing an audience, and winding the ride up with a bang, rippling silk doesn't do it for most folks, I would wager.

It's simple not impressive to me, except when I reflect on the question,

"Suppose it was 1968 and I wanted to create a fire effect on a limited effects budget." Then I do think it's a downright clever idea.

But I don't think the effect has kept pace with the times. It's simply not a "wow" stunner moment. In fact, it MIGHT have been a bigger wow back in the 80's. I remember being bowled over when Universal had real fire in their attractions ("You can feel the heat on your face!" my childhood friends proclaimed). Now it's almost run of the mill, except in Pirates, where it's just sort of bizzarly missing.

Not Afraid
01-02-2004, 08:50 AM
I was convinced enough that that was real fire to have fire nightmares as a child. Between PotC and Bambie, I wasn't real fond of fire - real, simulated or cartoon.

DisneyFan25863
01-02-2004, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by TheatreTech
Melted pole? Can you describe where? (I wanna look for it...I mean...is it actually still in the attraction?):confused:

Yes, it is. On the Left hand side, in the back. :)

DL4EVER
01-02-2004, 09:43 AM
It seems that the windingly long lines of people between the 26th and the 30th of December didn't mind whether or not the fire was fake. Also, as explained earlier, with all the boats going through constantly, the effect would have to run constantly, 16 hours a day when the hours go from 8am-12am. That is quite a long time for that sort of thing. I like it the way it is now. Also, if the person who was talking about the evacuation is right, real fire would be a bit of a problem.

Not to mention all that extra work and expenditure which wouldn't necessarily even prove to do anything significant, thus it would be wasted time and effort, to fix something that not only isn't broken, but something a majority of the people enjoy just the way it is.

Kuzcotopia
01-02-2004, 04:06 PM
But DL4EVER,

Using that logic, why repaint space mountain white? It's not like people weren't riding it. Oh, because it's better.

Why did they re-do the Matterhorn in the 70's to add interior theming? Because it's better.

Why did they retheme Fantasyland to real buildings rather than painted flats? Why did they lose the colored blacktop and brick the sidewalks and walkways instead?

Because it improves things. It spruces up a Disneyland that was certainly popular, and nobody was complaining... but it's just better.

ModHatter
01-02-2004, 04:33 PM
Now, do we have any proof that Space Mountain will stay white?

Tomorrowland looks dead. SM won't re-open until 2005, at the earliest. So, in that sense, if the paintjob's permanent, it IS imrpoving a ride that people aren't riding.

Aside from that example, the Matterhorn was done in the 70s, and the Fantasyland overhaul was done around '82, if I recall correctly. That was a totally different Disneyland. The Disneyland we have now is one that allows the Fantasyland theater, the Sub lagoon, the Motot Boats, etc, just sit and be unimproved for years. This is a Disneyland that hasn't plussed Star Tours in two decades. (And let's not forget those tacky Energizer posters that replaced the authentic Star Wars planet posters.)

Adding heat effects and other improvements would be great in the future. But with all that needs desperate help in Disneyland, not to mention DCA, it's WAY down on the priority list.