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endkaos
01-28-2004, 09:10 AM
I know this doesn't have anything to do with Disneyland, but I thought I would mention that the Disney Cruise Line requires my autistic son's doctor to fill out a Medical Release Form before we can go on the cruise. The ships are registered to the Bahamas.

Forbin
01-28-2004, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by justagrrl
I did call and ask Disneyland guest services about autistic kids and getting special assistance and they were extremely vague and could offer no information except to go to City Hall once we got there.That's because people lie and ask about autistic passes, get the name and go into DL and say 'John Jones' told me that I could get a pass' when they called and they don't even have any kids with them.



So, with that in mind, I would say that just because a member of one's party is autistic, there is nothing that says that they will get any sort of pass at all. Sorry that's not correct. Read my notes above. They aren't saying anything in advance on purpose.



I think what is so frustrating is not knowing ahead of time. True.


My sister in law, for years, has taken her daughter (my niece) there and counted on the SAP. Without an SAP (SAC - or whatever you want to call the current pass), I wonder if they would ever visit again. Is your niece Autistic? If she is, she's covered, if she isn't, well you know the answer.


I know this doesn't have anything to do with Disneyland, but I thought I would mention that the Disney Cruise Line requires my autistic son's doctor to fill out a Medical Release Form before we can go on the cruise. The ships are registered to the Bahamas.Of course! As they are no where near a full staffed hospital they do not want to be responsible. That's why it's a Release.

endkaos
01-28-2004, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by Forbin
Of course! As they are no where near a full staffed hospital they do not want to be responsible. That's why it's a Release.

Oh I see, (sarcasm). Maybe DLR should use a medical release form then? I've been to Anaheim Memorial, St. Jude's in Fullerton, UC by the Block Mall (City Mall, whatever). Trying to get to these medical facilities from Harbour and Katella (all those Ladies of the evening) can be life threatening too. :p

EOM

justagrrl
01-28-2004, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Forbin

Is your niece Autistic? If she is, she's covered, if she isn't, well you know the answer.


She's actually has 1p36 Chromosome Deletion - which makes her not autistic - but with autistic tendencies. Most people would probably assume she is autistic. Very few people have 1p36 Chromosome Deletion, so I doubt Disneyland will have a clue as to what that is. In the past, it wasn't an issue at all. They walked in, got an SAP, and didn't give it a second thought.

While I understand their hesitation about having someone say Joe Schmoe said I could get a pass - and then going without the kids - I seriously doubt just how often that particular scenario would occur.

The trouble seems to be in the answer your are "supposed" to give to get the pass. Clearly, saying my niece is autistic and we need an SAC isn't enough. They want to know what sort of assistance we need. What am I supposed to say? Well - let's see - she has difficulty waiting in lines (but then don't we all goes the arguement) etc. etc.

Now - I feel I'm in a somewhat unique position because I don't need a pass myself. I don't benefit from my sis-in-law getting them a pass when they go. But I can clearly see that it legitimately benefits my niece by being able to (and I'm going to say it) skip the lines. I'm not sure if she *had* to stand in lines that she could do so. Perhaps for a ride or two - or then again - maybe not. I'm not her primary caregiver by any stretch. Just an Aunt her loves her niece and likes to see her enjoy herself.

Clearly - something needs to happen, in some way, to make the policy a bit clearer. After all, why pay for a ticket or a pass when you can't enjoy the time you spend there.

amailmanyouknow
01-28-2004, 12:19 PM
>>When I explained that we were trying to plan our visit ahead of time, which attractions we would go on, and which we would have to avoid entirely based on ride wait times, he could offer no assistance. He merely repeated himself - that we would have to be there - IN PERSON - and a decision would be made based on what type of assistance we needed.<<

Of course they can't tell you. They want your money. They probably aren't allowed to tell you, because if they tell you the truth, you won't go to Disney. You spend your money to go, THEN they'll tell you that you can't have it when you get there. You would have to be there in person? ROFL! They were told wheelchair or ambulatory issues only. I guess they want to see a wheelchair or a cane. Or sell you one.

Solution: Don't go to Disney. Pick somewhere else that wants our children.

~N

amailmanyouknow
01-28-2004, 12:22 PM
>>Now - I feel I'm in a somewhat unique position because I don't need a pass myself. I don't benefit from my sis-in-law getting them a pass when they go. But I can clearly see that it legitimately benefits my niece by being able to (and I'm going to say it) skip the lines. <<

Well, you see, the child benefits from the family being able to stay together. So while you yourself might not technically need the pass, the experience for the child will be less if the family is unable to stay together. If the child and your SIL get done the ride, and you're still waiting an hour into it, how is that Magic? Ooops, I forgot....the money magically disappeared out of your wallet........

~N

amailmanyouknow
01-28-2004, 12:23 PM
>>That's because people lie and ask about autistic passes, get the name and go into DL and say 'John Jones' told me that I could get a pass' when they called and they don't even have any kids with them.<<

In this internet age, isn't it easy enough to fax the papers directly to Disney from the hospital or doctor who provided the diagnosis?That's a cop-out. Of course you don't give a pass to someone who doesn't have the paperwork. Duh.

~N

amailmanyouknow
01-28-2004, 12:29 PM
>>So...um...some parents (and YES...I am a great parent) do go in the 'off season'. I just make sure we make plans ahead of time, and talk with the teachers about school assignments...etc. <<

For us, it's not an issue of only homework. We have more than just speech therapy going on, although that in istelf is heavy. My son gets four hours a week of it and so Yes, that would be a problem. If your child only gets a half hour a week, it's obviously not as much of an issue.

And I agree that vacations like the one you spoke of in Hawaii are enriching. But Hawaii is not Disney. We went to England and Paris two years ago, he missed the last 5 days of school. But Disney is an unexcused absence. Somehow that Mouse just doesn't cut it as credit toward Zoology....


~N

justagrrl
01-28-2004, 12:53 PM
Hey mailman - where ya from? I'm from a mail man family myself.

Forbin
01-28-2004, 01:13 PM
Just FYI here's a few examples from the Petition. I took from the last 10.
Taken from Disney Petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?BPparent&1)


We have used the special needs pass for the last 3 years! It made a huge difference. I would really consider not going if my son had to wait in line. He wouldn't be able to do it! Please don't discontinue the special needs pass for our kids Hmm... Looks like someone just wants a FOTL. No mention of Autism.

I have an autistic child who cannot wait in lines. Without this pass we will not be able to go to Disneyland.Yah like that answer will get you a SAC. You can go, it's just not as much fun.

Please for my granddaughter. She has a disability that cannot be seen. She has Agenisis of Corpus Colosum. Well had someone spelled it right Corpus Callosum. It might fly.

My son has autism and is unable to wait in long lines. Not having access to handicapped passes will prohibit us visiting the parks. It is extremely difficult to make him wait. This would ruin any future visit for us to Disney. We have been there almost every year! This doesn't sound like a SAC and more like the person wants a FOTL.

This pass is the only reason we were able to visit Disney World as a family. Please do not take that one "normal" luxury away from us. Ummm...we are talking about Disneyland, not Florida.

The pass was very necessary when we visited in 2000. We spent hundreds of dollars on the visit, at Disney alone! Please consider the people you are prohibiting from visiting your park! Without the pass the visit would have been impossible No mention of autism but money. Oh so if they drop hundreds of dollars they are supposed to get FOTL?

Notice a pattern? No one has been to DL in the last 8 weeks. A lot were looking for that handicapped front of the line pass. I see maybe 2 people who will get the SAC. And even those 2 will probably not like the new SAC ruleset, since FOTL isn't part of it.

justagrrl
01-28-2004, 01:33 PM
Forbin - forgive my memory if you've already shared this info with us...

Do you have mentally retarded child? - or loved one? (forgive me if that's not the current politically correct way to say that)

Forbin
01-28-2004, 03:15 PM
Well lets see,

According to the book, my child is Autistic. Yes she goes to a special school 2 days a week.

And your point is?

justagrrl
01-28-2004, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by Forbin
Well lets see,

According to the book, my child is Autistic. Yes she goes to a special school 2 days a week.

And your point is?

My point was that I wondered if you had first hand experience in the area. Clearly you do. You seemed a bit judgemental, in my opinion, of those sig's on the petition.

Comments like: Well had someone spelled it right Corpus Callosum. It might fly.

and

This doesn't sound like a SAC and more like the person wants a FOTL.

I guess I wanted to think that, perhaps, you just hadn't been in their shoes before and didn't realize what they might have to go through. Apparently, you do know, to the extent of your own family, all about it. I would have thought you might be more understanding due to your own experiences in that same area, I suppose.... guess not.

ToursbabeC3po
01-28-2004, 03:31 PM
ToursbabeC3po - Are you implying that someone who takes an austitic child on New Years Eve deserves to be denied SAP accommodations by a overworked and underpaid CM?

I never said that. But once again you have put words in someones mouth. I was saying that I know what it is like to bring an autistic child in on a normal day to Disney. If I were to bring my child on New Years Eve when it is so packed that you can barely move and people are running in to him that is a very bad choice on MY PART as a parent. I think it is more important for me to be a good parent then for me to bring my child to Disneyland. His mental and physical health come first before anything else. He has sensory issues and does not like to be touched and big crowds are a problem. Normal days are a issue so New Years Eve would not be a smart day to go don't you think?
Also this was the first day this new system was put in place and I am sure that some mistakes were made in city hall (guest relations). Believe it or not cast members are human we do not have super powers and do make some mistakes. Attractions cast members had no ideal that they had changed the system that day. So we just used it the old way.
I still have not heard of anyone that has visited the park recently. All these post are from December when the system was new and yes there were some mistakes in it and most of them have been fixed. Do you expect to go to Disneyland the first day Tower opens and it not to break down a few times? Of course not that is just how things work when they are new there is always a period of adjustment.

endkaos
01-28-2004, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by ToursbabeC3po

1-Normal days are a issue so New Years Eve would not be a smart day to go don't you think? Also this was the first day this new system was put in place and I am sure that some mistakes were made in city hall (guest relations).

2-Believe it or not cast members are human we do not have super powers and do make some mistakes. Attractions cast members had no ideal that they had changed the system that day. So we just used it the old way.

3-I still have not heard of anyone that has visited the park recently. All these post are from December when the system was new and yes there were some mistakes in it and most of them have been fixed.

4-Do you expect to go to Disneyland the first day Tower opens and it not to break down a few times? Of course not that is just how things work when they are new there is always a period of adjustment.

1-Your number 1 statement and number 3 conflict. You are a cast member, when was the first day of the new policy, December or January? Bet you don't know because Gregg Emmer won't put it in writing.

2-Gregg Emmer didn't even bother to tell the other CMs about the policy changes when he required them? Well, isn't that another feather in his hat.

3-See MY statement regarding your number 1 statement.

4-Not with Gregg Emmer and Matt O. in charge of DLR, but otherwise..yes I expect a ride to have been thoroughly checked and tested before public operation. It's pretty scary to think otherwise.

{offensive comment coming: Bring Back Roy}

EOM

Forbin
01-28-2004, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by justagrrl
Comments like: Well had someone spelled it right Corpus Callosum. It might fly.

and

This doesn't sound like a SAC and more like the person wants a FOTL.

I guess I wanted to think that, perhaps, you just hadn't been in their shoes before and didn't realize what they might have to go through. Apparently, you do know, to the extent of your own family, all about it.
Well first off I can't see how someone has such a major disease and can't even spell it. Heck even I could spell it. I would at least try to know what diseases my children had before saying she had it. This issue more sounds like she knows someone who's daughter has ACC and is just repeating what someone told them.

2nd : Well just look at those excuses? Those sound like they aren't Autistic or even has an issue. ALL children can't stand in long lines. What makes yours so special that they can't stand in long lines with ALL the other children. Oh she's autistic. That's not an answer. She's got ACC is an Answer. Oh and that's not a very good one, you better have something to back up she's got ACC. I know City Hall is going to get she has ACC as an answer, now that I posted it.


I would have thought you might be more understanding due to your own experiences in that same area, I suppose.... guess not.
I have a TON of experiences in that area. The ton where you see people try dumb answers to get SAC's. I have a lot of heart when I see some poor autistic child not get a SAC. Guess what? I haven't seen that yet. Everyone I saw in City Hall who REALLY needed a SAC got one. No one who was needy was denied. I also saw a bunch of old SAP scammers get denied. That doesn't make me sad and those posts about remind me of those exact scammers.

ToursbabeC3po
01-28-2004, 04:06 PM
when was the first day of the new policy, December

It was the very end of Dec. If it was not New Year's Eve day it was the day before that. I do not remember the exact day. I have no Ideal who Greg is I only work there and I don't really care who is in charge I just do my job to the best of my ability.

This post has nothing to do with who is in charge even though I am a big Supporter of Savedisney.com. I was merly defending myself from an ealier post :-)

ToursbabeC3po
01-28-2004, 04:10 PM
Forbin is your daughter full blown, high functioning, or Asperger's?

Forbin
01-28-2004, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by endkaos
1-Your number 1 statement and number 3 conflict. You are a cast member, when was the first day of the new policy, December or January? Bet you don't know because Gregg Emmer won't put it in writing.

2-Gregg Emmer didn't even bother to tell the other CMs about the policy changes when he required them? Well, isn't that another feather in his hat.

3-See MY statement regarding your number 1 statement.


EOM

Just to correct you on some things.

1 - New Policy Dec 16th-19th.

2 - Lets see DL has 1000 CM's and you expect all of them to learn a brand new 20 page policy in a day? Give them 2 weeks to learn it, which is how long it took.

3 - Actually she is wrong, I have, AVP has, She has, and one more I think has been to the park in January. So far tours and myself have posted that the new SAC policy is fair. All other posts point to before Jan2nd.

4 - All rides are thoroughly tested. But Tours is still right.

Mommy2NicknMax
01-28-2004, 04:22 PM
Well I stumbled upon a mess here didn't I? I had no idea that I could get any special pass for my two autistic sons when we were in DL last August. Hmmm, yet somehow we managed to wait in lines, wait for parades, wait for food, etc. With little to no problems (and my boys are YOUNG!). Now I can understand "some" autistic children cannot wait in line but not ALL of them. My son had just turned 3 a couple months before our trip. We waited in line for the Dumbo ride. In line he began to get "antsy" as ANY three year old would. I got eye level w/him (so he understood me) and told him if he didn't behave, we were getting out of the line. He did fine. Had he kept stimming, then I would have gotten out of line and we would have moved on to somehthing else and tried again later or another day (we were there for 5 days).

I don't know, call my crazy but I took my boys to DL to get "away" from autism for a moment and just let them be kids and have fun. They are in school and therapy so much of the time that they really just needed a break. I would hate to have to go get a special card and explain to a CM that my kids are both autistic and have them look at me like they don't believe me, etc. That would just break my heart. Maybe it's wrong of me to NOT treat my children like they have a disability? I just think they are happier this way. But that's just me.

As for those who have children with sensory issues, wouldn't the ride itself be far worse then the wait in line? My boys also have sensory issues but travel and do well around others so this part I don't have much experience with.

Forbin
01-28-2004, 04:25 PM
Whoa I had to look up Aspergers

Damn that is close. If anything she has a mild case of that.

But if I read that definition right, I have that. Yikes.

Mommy2NicknMax
01-28-2004, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Forbin
Whoa I had to look up Aspergers

Damn that is close. If anything she has a mild case of that.

But if I read that definition right, I have that. Yikes.

Everyone could end up on the "spectrum" in some way or another. It's all so vague.

Forbin
01-28-2004, 04:39 PM
As for those who have children with sensory issues, wouldn't the ride itself be far worse then the wait in line? As well as waiting for the Parade,standing in a crowd in the parade, walking down Main Street, riding the Train, Buying Food at any restaurant, waiting to see Mickey, ENTERING the park. Everything is some form of line wait.

If your children cannot stand in line, why did you come to the happiest line on earth?

This is probably what went through executive's heads when they saw the extra long SAP lines throughout the park, and they found out most SAP's are given over endurance issues.

hazlnut
01-28-2004, 05:12 PM
Mommy2NicknMax,

I like your style.

And, like idesign, your honesty and bravery are so commendable, I am just blown away by people like you.

dghosthost
01-28-2004, 05:56 PM
4-Not with Gregg Emmer and Matt O. in charge of DLR, but otherwise..yes I expect a ride to have been thoroughly checked and tested before public operation. It's pretty scary to think otherwise.

{offensive comment coming: Bring Back Roy}

EOM


If you support the savedisney.com campaign you'd know all the good Matt is doing for the park in other areas outside SAC. Painting, attraction maintence, keeping the park cleaner etc.

There is a reason Roy supports Matt!

I may not like the new SAC system but as someone who is disabled, something had to be done!