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3894
12-15-2003, 02:03 PM
Here and there on the Submarine Voyage threads are references to "you can thank T. Irby that the subs will never return". I have no idea what T. Irby did. Can you tell me?

Morrigoon
12-15-2003, 02:46 PM
Hmm... well, w/out divulging anything in particular, I'd say you should keep up on Al's writings.

Basically T's attitude toward attraction maintenance has made subs prohibitively expensive to bring back.

3894
12-15-2003, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Morrigoon
Hmm... well, w/out divulging anything in particular, I'd say you should keep up on Al's writings.


Can you point me to something specific? The last I remember, Al said something vague about maybe later getting to the matter when space permitted.

Bill Catherall
12-15-2003, 05:40 PM
If I remember correctly (what I have read here and there, I don't remember exactly where), the molds that are used to cast the creatures in the attraction where taking up precious storage space and were permanently disposed of. In order to bring the ride back to life all the molds would have to be replaced, costing millions of dollars more than if they had just remained in storage.

3894
12-16-2003, 03:38 AM
Okay, I remember hearing about the tossing of the molds. But how could it really cost millions to plaster cast sea creatures, then make molds? That's how they did it the first time, according to E-Ticket. Alternately, how could it cost millions to raid the WDW 20K Leagues attraction and cast off of those?

Duane
12-16-2003, 04:41 AM
I hope I am accurate but I honestly believe Disneyland has a surprise in store for us related to the subs. If you remember, several months ago the water level was lowered two feet in the lagoon and then it mysteriously returned to normal levels. The rumor for this was "regular maintenance". Then, the waterfalls were turned off for about a month with no explanation. I visited Disneyland during Thanksgiving and videotaped the inside of the sub lagoon caverns using a powerful zoom lens. In the old exit side cavern, I could see a tarp covering the walls to prevent anyone from seeing what was taking place. Also, if you have been keeping up, the waterfalls have returned to operation again for no reason. Hmm?

UncleGDogWord
12-16-2003, 06:23 AM
Originally posted by Duane
I hope I am accurate but I honestly believe Disneyland has a surprise in store for us related to the subs. If you remember, several months ago the water level was lowered two feet in the lagoon and then it mysteriously returned to normal levels. The rumor for this was "regular maintenance". Then, the waterfalls were turned off for about a month with no explanation. I visited Disneyland during Thanksgiving and videotaped the inside of the sub lagoon caverns using a powerful zoom lens. In the old exit side cavern, I could see a tarp covering the walls to prevent anyone from seeing what was taking place. Also, if you have been keeping up, the waterfalls have returned to operation again for no reason. Hmm?

I think the watefalls were discussed about a month or so ago. According to those post the waterpump that pumps the water to the falls was busted and a new one needed to be installed.

3894
12-16-2003, 06:53 AM
When the subs return to Disneyland, so shall 3894!

CraigMBA
12-16-2003, 07:11 AM
You'll be waiting a long time.

The subs could be restarted, but the que is no more. You'd have a hard time loading folks into an attraction with no enterence. I can't remember what is there now, but it's one of those deals that you can't unwind. I'll look next time I'm there in a couple of days.

merlinjones
12-16-2003, 07:38 AM
>>The subs could be restarted, but the que is no more. You'd have a hard time loading folks into an
attraction with no enterence. I can't remember what is there now, but it's one of those deals that you can't unwind. <<

A few chain links and a souvenier stand could bar the recreation of the queue? It takes an MBA to have such persistence of vision!:D

Duane
12-16-2003, 07:59 AM
A defective water pump is a good answer for the waterfalls being turned off but what about the lagoon water level being lowered two feet? This took place well before the waterfalls were turned off. Also, there is no explanation for a tarp covering the exit side of the caverns. If you were keeping up, a few months ago the caverns work lights were on almost every night for a few months, wonder why? I think these are strong signs of something being developed. If you use Space Mountain for an example, absolutely nobody knew that the building was going to be repainted white until the day work began. Let's be hopeful for the future.

UncleGDogWord
12-16-2003, 01:55 PM
Duane you may be right. We just have to hope that the new boss isn't same as the old boss.

I guess I tip my hat to the new constitution.

We won't get fooled again.

Nephythys
12-16-2003, 02:13 PM
It seems simple to me to rip out that shop for Autopia, we don't need another shop for an attraction! (I hated how many attractions debouched into shops- annoying!!!)

Then remake the queue and bring back the subs!!!

NOW!!

zapppop
12-16-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Duane
If you use Space Mountain for an example, absolutely nobody knew that the building was going to be repainted white until the day work began.

I've known since Aug. 24th, but I didn't know when the painting would start.

I've no idea whether or not the subs will return but I hope that space doesn't stay empty for 10 years like the TL carousel; and as others have said, ripping out the gift shop to reinstall the queue is not a problem.

Kevin Yee
12-16-2003, 04:42 PM
The gift shop isn't the problem. It's the monorail's wheelchair elevator which was added after the subs closed. With that there, one of the three loading bays is inaccessible. Thus the subs could be brought back, but only at two-thirds capacity.

Of course, the bigger problem is the millions of dollars needed to rebuild the subs diesel engines. That's why it didn't get the green light.

stagedoorjonny
12-16-2003, 05:00 PM
For millions you should be able to build new engines from scratch

tod
12-16-2003, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by Kevin Yee
The gift shop isn't the problem. It's the monorail's wheelchair elevator which was added after the subs closed. With that there, one of the three loading bays is inaccessible. Thus the subs could be brought back, but only at two-thirds capacity.

At the risk of sounding argumentative, or pedantic, or both...

There was capacity for loading three Submarines at once? Really? I only remember capacity for two, but I haven't really looked in years.

-T

LFuzzy
12-16-2003, 05:23 PM
Don't hold your breath. There are no current plans for the lagoon.

BJW
12-16-2003, 05:59 PM
With the empty space the subs and motorboat cruise are taking up they could probably build a third park on just that land. :D I believe eventually they will reopen the subs and motorboat cruise or put something else in that land. Ouimet and Rasulo see the capacity problem and I'm sure they will consider this area when deciding where to give funding for new attractions. The only question is when... 20 years? 30 years? Next year? Who knows? Besides, with all the activity in the lagoon people have claimed to witness, something must be going on.

Bruce Bergman
12-16-2003, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Kevin Yee
The gift shop isn't the problem. It's the monorail's wheelchair elevator which was added after the subs closed. With that there, one of the three loading bays is inaccessible. Thus the subs could be brought back, but only at two-thirds capacity.

Of course, the bigger problem is the millions of dollars needed to rebuild the subs diesel engines. That's why it didn't get the green light.

Nahhhh, all you'd have to do is shift around the queue and move the load stations forward or back a bit, so the conning tower where the first sub parks is lined up roughly with the elevator shaft. The front hatch of that sub could load in front of the elevator, and the rear hatch behind it.

You'd have a funky traffic pattern with the Monorail elevator passengers crossing through the Sub passengers to get to and from the walkways, but nothing that can't be dealt with.

But the Accountaneers will scream bloody murder if you remove the Autopia gift shop that's currently filling up the Sub Queue space without building another one - it's supposedly in Chevron's contract. Looks like the Radio Disney Studio (the old Lunching Pad) is vacant, or they could bump Hatmosphere to another location... (Blasphemy! :p )

As to the sub engines and mechanical systems needing attention before the ride could reopen, that is a big chunk of money - but all the hulls will probably need to be hauled out in "drydock" backstage or off-site, sandblasted, patches welded in, painted, guide wheels replaced...

Expensive, but not prohibitive - that same type of periodic major maintenance work would have to be in the operating budget if the ride was still running.

Duane
12-16-2003, 06:27 PM
Kevin Yee mentioned it would take millions to rebuild the diesel engines in the subs, where did this figure come from? The entire subs were built for $80,000 a piece. My estimate for a brand new diesel engine would be around $10,000. If there are 10 subs then you're looking at $100,000, not millions.

MrTomMorrow
12-16-2003, 07:05 PM
Yes, but the subs were built over 40 years ago; I'm sure with inflation it'd be a lot more nowadays.

ModHatter
12-16-2003, 07:47 PM
Please check out this thread:
http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23157

The pump for the waterfalls... MAYbe. But why are the bubbles now gone? The ride stopped operating in 98. But I have pictures as late as October showing the bubbles on. Now, shortly after the falls come back on, the bubbles are off. Coincidence?

And, more importantly, there is the track. Someone was gracious enough to send me pictures of the track by the dock, taken in May. This week (if I can get over the flu already!) I'll be taking "after" pictures to show that something is definitely going on to the track. I'll be posting them in this location:
http://f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/modhattr@pacbell.net/lst?.dir=/pictures&.order=&.view=l&.src=bc&.done=http%3a//f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/
(If the link doesn't work, go to http://briefcase.yahoo.com/modhattr@pacbell.net and select "Pictures")

Say what you will about the waterfalls and bubbles, etc, working on the sub track isn't likely to mean tearing it out to sell for scrap. It can really only mean feasibility studies, or better yet, actual refurbishment to bring SOMEthing back to the lagoon.

leaf
12-16-2003, 11:17 PM
The last time I took a look, it appeared as if they had done something to the track by the loading dock (week before Thanksgiving). Either it was partially removed or it was changed to a different type of track. I couldn't tell exactly, but it did look different.

HighwayInTheSky
12-17-2003, 07:55 AM
The engines are indeed a problem, but I should also add that
the engines were all removed last Summer except the one new
unit that I believe was placed in the Sea Wolf. It's still there.

Also, the falls went back on because one of the subs tails is so
close to the grotto entrance now that without the falls on it
is clearly visible. They were all moved again recently, because
last month with the falls off, no subs were visible.

And again more... a new gate was added to the left side of the
Monorail elevator going out to the Sub dock area.

This is all just a little coincidental to me. Somethings going on.