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PhilMP
11-19-2003, 02:42 AM
Okay, maybe it's because I've been away from backstage for a while, but for some odd reason I'm noticing a lot of sub-par things from other CMs.

Yesterday...or actually two days ago, I saw a CM walking around with "cornrows." Now, if you don't know what cornrows are, it's basically rows of hair braided extremely close to the scalp. Now I'm open to all hairstyles, but last time I looked, cornrows were not allowed, according to the Disney Look guidelines. Little bit later, CMs walking backstage on his way to Harbor Pointe, still behind the firehouse though, so CM had to cross onstage to get to Harbor Pointe. CM was wearing one of those beanie type things, looks like they took a bunch of material from pantyhose and turned it into a beanie. Gee, I didn't know Disney Look guidelines allowed that either.

Another story. CM working Haunted Mansion, standing on trash can, not really that safe, yelling to crowd that HM was down for "technical difficulties." Hmmm...I learned that you never say "technical difficulties." Now maybe if I was talking to adults or someone older, without children around, I'd say "technical difficulties," but to kids I'd probably say "Oh, the ghosts got loose" or something rather ridiculous. Last time I went through Disney University, we were told that's how to explain to a child how a ride is 101. Maybe they don't teach that anymore, doubt it though.

Yet another story. Saw two Canoe CMs walking through Westside, onstage, rubbing up on each other, hands basically fondling each other's...hmm...bottom, through pants. Not exactly something sanctioned by Disney.

Now I'm not saying that I'm the perfect CM, far from it. But I do keep my hair within Disney guidelines, wear costumes that fit, and do not display overly affectionate behavior onstage. But what's going on here?????

Okay, it's late, and I'm tired. No more ranting.

Phil

SacTown Chronic
11-19-2003, 07:28 AM
As far as the cornrows go, Disney has stated this summer that cornrows - kept neat - would be acceptable for the CM's to wear.

Regarding the canoe CM's, that is unacceptable behavior in any workplace but especially for anyone that works with the public. And that goes double for anyone working at Disneyland. Think of the kids people!

This is all part of societies' lowering of standards for behaviour, appearance, professionalism, and common decency. There will come a time when you will look back on this and consider it the "good old days" when people were decent and professional.:crying:

SweetAurora
11-19-2003, 03:26 PM
I make sure I'm on MY best behavior whenever I'm onstage...I am close with people I work with, but I act as I would around anybody else when I'm "performing" onstage.

Take it from me, Canoe people. And I know who you are. It ain't a good idea to date someone who works with you. ARGHGHG!HGH!G!G!!!!


Love and Laughter~*

CoasterMatt
11-19-2003, 03:29 PM
While it wasn't Disneyland, I met my wife while working together at an amusement park. We were set up by a lead, but most people didn't know we were dating until Rose quit the park to go work for a private school. By the end of our first date, we both knew we had found "The One" :D

RStar
11-19-2003, 03:47 PM
Phil, these are the type of things that are discouraging to not only the CMs but also the public when they see it. That's what I like about you, you still care. So you can rant all you want.

I wonder how much of this is "Well if Disney doesn't care any more, then why should I?"

Morrigoon
11-19-2003, 04:22 PM
Phil: care to join in a rant about ODV's low costuming standards? I cringe when they pass me backstage, I can't imagine that department allows them to go onstage looking like that. Even backstage CMs look better than some of those ODV kids (this is not a criticism of ODV CMs, but of their mgmt, who allow some of them to appear beyond sloppy).

moonbende
11-19-2003, 05:13 PM
Just to make you current--

In addition to allowing neat, above the collar cornrows for men, women are now allowed to wear hoop earrings as long as they're no bigger than a dime.

MrTomMorrow
11-19-2003, 08:02 PM
Moustaches are OK now, too, but that was announced a while ago.

Polar33
11-19-2003, 09:53 PM
Morrigoon- The costuming issue is an interesting topic in Vending.

At the beginning of September, Costuming came in and set up shop in the department to make sure that everyone was conforming to the Disney Look standards. That day, you couldn't leave the office building if you werenít 100% properly adhering to the Disney Look. There were racks of costumes to change into if you had the wrong size; they also had a person there to take measurements to find the size that would "fit" best. Honestly, although I think something needed to be done, that was a little over the top. If anything it did more harm than good since after being put through the rather humiliating and degrading process that day, many CMs simply found ways around the guidelines or other things to spite costuming and or management.

The next day was pretty much business as usual, it's never consistent.

The management is too overwhelmed to be on top of all the CMs in Vending for their entire shift. I don't know how the CM to Management ratio is in other locations, but at any given time in vending you could have 200 or more CMs scattered across the park and probably about 3-4 managers. I, and I'm sure that many others, have gone many days of work without seeing a manager for more than five minutes at the start or end of my shift.

And don't get me started on the people that casting sends us now of days. Let's just say they are mostly the type who could "care less" about their job, let alone appearance.

Honestly, I think that if the managers were more consistent about checking to see that CMs had proper costumes and whatnot, and found a less degrading way to do it than recent methods, it would improve the situation greatly.

Phil- was the guy you saw with cornrows by any chance white? I think cornrows look fine on African-Americans, but I donít think that white people can pull it off well.

bluepearl
11-19-2003, 10:34 PM
Hey, Phil, we got a few erm... interesting people in our store. I never really saw the cornrows as much of an issue; there was a CM in our store (though I don't think she works there anymore) with cornrows that went down near the middle of her back. I actually contemplated getting them once, but it's too expensive for me.

Anyhow... yeah, a lot of the new people we're getting in kinda scare me. A lot of them are downright rude, especially to other CMs, and some don't bother to work. And some of them are just kinda scary... one night a female CM (new hire on OTJ training) went berserk because she wasn't sure about where she parked amongst other things. I hear a lot of people were hired at the job fair. :shrug:

And SweetAurora, I happened to meet my guy at work! Been going really well, too. ;)

PhilMP
11-19-2003, 11:27 PM
Polar, yes, that guy was white. Brown hair, blonde streaks, in CORNROWS!!!!!

Morrigoon, I see ODV's costuming deficiencies every day. However, my pants do fit, and my shirt is tucked in.

And Polar, I totally agree. For the amount of CMs ODV has, spread throughout the park, management simply does not have the resources to constantly monitor CM appearance. For an attraction, restaurant, or store, management is constantly there, and the CM-manager ratio is a lot more manageable. In any of these three locations, you simply cannot untuck your shirt or make your pants sag when the manager walks away because you'll just get caught again. Not so in ODV. Once that manager checks your location, you don't see him/her again.

I don't blame management, they do the best they can. I do blame Casting. There was a time when ODV got people who were capable of doing their jobs. Now, for some reason or another, we get the bottom of the barrel. Now I'm not saying that all our new hires are bad, but the quality of our new CMs has gone waaaaayyyy down.

How come Attractions get all the smart CMs when all they have to do is PUSH A FREAKING BUTTON, and we get CMs that can't add?

Oh, and I did receive my very first costuming deficiency today, not my fault. I've been away for six months, and costuming decided to chop the sleeves off all the long-sleeved shirts and call them the "male costume." I still had the old long-sleeved shirt, had to go change it. There was also a policy change involving footwear. We now have to have "black, shineable" shoes, something that we kind of skirted for comfort (how would your feet feel after standing for 8 hours), and safety (pushing a car down SM hill is just a bit dangerous). Now they decided to enforce it without telling me.

No big deal, I now have a short-sleeved, formerly long-sleeved shirt, and I'll just wear Army boots to work. :)

Phil

RStar
11-20-2003, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by PhilMP


1)How come Attractions get all the smart CMs when all they have to do is PUSH A FREAKING BUTTON, and we get CMs that can't add?


2) No big deal, I now have a short-sleeved, formerly long-sleeved shirt, and I'll just wear Army boots to work. :)

Phil

Phil,

1) I think part of the issue is the fact that they don't want anymore problems with ride accidents. And combine that with the lower quality people applying for the jobs due to the word-of-mouth bad rap (I can't tell you how many times I've heard from a CM "Disneyland is the happiest place on Earth, unless you work there!") and the starting pay use to be quite higher than other places and "getting" a Disney job was not easy. Now it seems it's more equal with others.

2) Now I know how to find you, the ODV guy with a tucked in shirt, and shiney Army boots! I have often wondered if I have met you and Polar while at the park. It's very likely. ;)

~Bob

PhilMP
11-21-2003, 12:53 AM
Okay, Disney can train a monkey to do 75% of the things that Attractions CMs do. The other 25%, positions where you need to talk to Guest, other than saying "How many in your party?" do require CMs with communication skills. The majority of positions are so mundane they could easily automate them and improve on efficiency and safety, or as said before, train a monkey to do.

ODV on the other hand, has one, two if you're lucky, CMs working a location. These one or two CMs act as Guest Relations, park maps, Security, Lost Children, Store Operations, Food Operations, Custodial, and Loss Prevention. This doesn't include having to be human calculators (have you ever tried adding up an order that amounted to 13 Cokes/Sprites/Diet Codes, 3 bottled waters, 2 Sipper Cap things, 16 churros, and 5 dipping sauces???).

So Casting, pleeeaaaasseee send some smart people our way. I'm tired of vendors coming up to me and asking "How much is 2 churros?".

Oh, and RStar, my boots may be shiny, can't guarantee it. I'm pulling my oldest pair from the closet, I'm not wasting a good pair of boots on a place where they'll be scuffed and scratched and who knows what.

Phil

Polar33
11-21-2003, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by PhilMP
Oh, and RStar, my boots may be shiny, can't guarantee it. I'm pulling my oldest pair from the closet, I'm not wasting a good pair of boots on a place where they'll be scuffed and scratched and who knows what.

Technicaly they just have to be shineable, nothing I have seen yet says they actually have to be shined.

SweetAurora
11-21-2003, 09:31 AM
You know, dating at Disneyland totally depends. My girlfriends who worked there before I did told me "Once you start working here, you won't be single for long!" And they were right. Disneyland is like high school...with ashtrays. But most of these girls have now had really bad breakups with their significant others, and now it really sucks seeing them every day at work. But hey! Good for you finding someone. I found someone too when I started working at Disneyland, and work was ever so much better with him by my side. But as our relationship has gone on, it's been hard to keep it secret at work. When you work in one specific area, EVERYONE knows your business, and sometimes that's not cool. It's created a lot of problems.

I think it just depends on who you are and where you work...so hopefully no one took offense to my comment. Maybe I'm just a little bitter ;)

Love and Laughter!

RStar
11-21-2003, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by Polar33
Technicaly they just have to be shineable, nothing I have seen yet says they actually have to be shined.

:eek: :D :rolleyes:

You guys are too much.

Phil, I agree with you that the training is more extensive for ODV, and for the most part more important to the show. Guest interaction is what the guest remembers most. But if a churros vender is rude and gives the wrong change, then sends someone to ToonTown to ride Splash Mountain no one dies. A mistake by a ride operator could kill someone. And I think that could be what they are thinking about when the send people to their places. Is it the right way to go? NO, I'd rather see sharp, well mannered, well dressed CMs everywhere like it use to be. I'm with you.

SweetAurora
11-21-2003, 09:37 AM
Man...ever since I hired in, all I've heard about is the constant war between ODV and Attractions...lol!
In Attractions, we have to work a LOT with the public...well, at least I do. I agree with a previous post--Disney really IS hiring people who don't care about their looks and their job, and it's really disheartening to see that. So as my service to children of all ages and to Mr. Disney, I go out of my way to make sure people are having a great time during their visit. And sometimes, that's really hard work when the people around you working just want their next break, when people are blazing mad that rides are breaking down, etc. But my attraction really focuses on conversing with the guests, so I probably can't speak for the others.

Anyone here work on Splash? Now there's an attraction that involves more than just "pushing buttons". Lol!

Love and Laughter!

Morrigoon
11-21-2003, 12:47 PM
Hmm... I seem to recall needing to make sure guests don't fall off the edge of the loading platform and getting killed also being in the attractions job description. Ooh, how about the part where we get guests organized so they're ready to load when the vehicle comes in (this is nowhere near as easy as it sounds, especially when half the guests can't count, speak your language, or pay attention to anything for more than 2 seconds.

Of course they're hiring the bottom of the barrel these days - they pay too little.

It'd be interesting to compare what Walt paid his CMs (in today's dollars) to what Mikey is paying. But seriously, when In N Out is paying $8.50 plus benefits, why work for $7.60? Some of us will, but for the most part, you get the people who aren't good enough for In N Out. And that's why In N Out has such a great reputation. And somehow, they've found a way to afford it without charging more than typical fast food joints. Hmm... could it possibly be GOOD FOR BUSINESS to have great employees?

[Rod Miller] Imagine that! [/Rod Miller]

Freerider127
11-21-2003, 12:57 PM
Rod Miller is the best:D Hes one of the best examples of a good CM. Morrigoon you work on attractions right? I dont work there but I always see people always going crazy on where they want to sit and arguing with cast members sometimes. The most annoying thing I see is when people get single rider passes and they all ask to sit together. How do you respond to this?, I personally couldent stand it. I think people under estimate working on attractions, because it seems to me like you have to work and talk with the guest alot.

Morrigoon
11-21-2003, 01:01 PM
If you're a single rider, you're a single rider. You are in the single rider (shorter) line because we can just pop you into empty spots and not have you making the regular line longer (b/c even if it's inconvenient, if we have one row open, and you're a single, we have to accommodate you before the group behind you which happens to have the same number of people as seats in that row (meaning they have to wait, and we have to find a smaller group to fit with you)

If you're in the single line, you're single. That's that. Unless it's convenient for us to put you together, but usually, in order to head off causing bigger problems down the line, even then we'll split you up - because youre a single rider.

Laffite
11-21-2003, 04:11 PM
you should have went up to the canoe couple and ask can I join ?

PhilMP
11-21-2003, 08:57 PM
Yes, a mistake by a pseudo-monkey<j/k> could kill somebody. But honestly, ride operation systems have so many failsafes and checks and re-checks that the risk is minimal, save for a piece of ride vehicle flying off the track or a wooden dowel coming loose. :(

There are speed sensors on critical parts of track to ensure no ride vehicle is going too fast through a certain turn, weight sensors to ensure that the track isn't blocked, and enough cameras to appease Paris Hilton's bedroom habit. Geez, there even CMs stationed inside the ride at certain parts to make sure Guests aren't doing anything unsafe.

Oh, and Disney's taking out the task of making sure Guests don't fall off the loading platform, they're called air gates. And if there are no air gates, how hard is it for one person to make sure that people stay behind the yellow line, when THAT'S THEIR ONLY JOB AT THE MOMENT!!!

And you think organizing a line is difficult. Try working a glow merch wagon, middle of busy season, with 50 people surrounding you from all sides either looking or buying, and trying to keep a semblance of order, in addition to ensuring that nobody steals anything. And half of the people don't speak english, the other third are impatient and cut in front of others, and the remainder are actually looking to steal something. Do all this while there's a parade coming up the route and it's about to run into you in about two minutes, and that's why the Show Support Lead is screaming at you to move.

Now, IMO, the entire Attractions-ODV war stems from really one thing. The fact that we get free drinks at cast cafeterias, save for DCA Cafe and the Eat Ticket. I kid you not, I got into a serious argument with a SM CM when she thought I needed to pay for the Coke I got with my pizza at the Village House window.

Now that I think of it, maybe it's the fact that we're always the loud and obnoxious ones at the Inn Between, both inside and out at the smoking section. But hey, if you've always got a group of 5-10 CMs versus tiny little groups of 1 or 2 you're always going to seem more loud and boisterous. :)

Phil

P.S.: I don't know about In N Out, I've seen good people there, and I've seen bad people. Maybe the fact that they have the best burgers and fries in the world is why they're a good business.

Morrigoon
11-21-2003, 10:15 PM
Well Phil, I do not challenge the difficulty of their job, but the people you really need to remind of that is Casting. They're the ones giving you the dregs and causing high turnover in that dept.

And I'm of the opinion that management park-wide should pay more attention to costuming. Even if they don't do anything but walk up to you and make you pull your pants up to where they're meant to be worn, I think any manager from any area should be able to correct poor costuming when they see it.

Honestly, when I see people wearing their pants that low on their hips... well, it makes you wonder whether they realize that the pants weren't cut for that, or if they just don't realize that they look stupid

SweetAurora
11-22-2003, 08:07 PM
HaHAH Morrigoon! LOL
So THAT'S how that whole war got started, Phil...actually, I'd heard from Attractions people that some of the Attractions peeps are really snippy and look down on ODV...I know I sure don't...
Just today, I had a group of 34 non-English-speaking tourists...and what fun it was to group them into line, and then try to make them stay back behind gates so that they wouldn't get stuck between them when they closed. AH ME.

Ah, Rod...what a character. Me love Rod.

And forget everything I've talked about--I'm gonna go get me a job at IN 'N OUT!!!!!!!!!!

Love and Laughter!

Loki
11-23-2003, 08:21 PM
Ok, so the look of the cast members is going down hill. We all understand that! Their performance is also in question. The behavior is being affected due to poor leadership. Look at the managerial staff. These new CM's are being lead by people with no formal training. Letís say a CM works in foods and works his way up to be a manager. What training has he had? Well maybe he observed his manager who did the same? Letís also say they both had quit college after a year. Now where do the skills come from? Is it Disney Magic? I donít think so. I think there should be more requirements for people promoted from within. Out side hires have to have a degree to be in management. Why not expect the same from within?

So what have we learned?
When idiots lead idiots, we get idiots.

The Magic just isn't the same. The majority of CM's don't care like they use to. When people with HIGH expectations come and there needs arenít met to the "T" they get bitter and take it out on the CM's and they get bitter in return and its a nasty cycle.