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Lost Boy
09-19-2001, 06:43 PM
When really nice cloisene pins started coming out a few years ago of current and past attractions, I started buying them everytime I went to Disneyland. In the past few years the "Pin Trading" craze has gone way beyond normalcy. When I went a couple of weeks ago (to say goodbye to the Bears) I noticed huge lines at the Emporium, The Pin Traders Store and at Pin wagons all over the Park. I realized that it was the first Sunday of the Month and that new pins (and some limited pins) where being released that day. I could not believe these people standing in lines for hours to buy a bag of pins. They where rude to others around them who wondered what was going on. There where other things also, but that is not the reason for this post.

The reason is this. Last Sunday I went again. I went specifically to be there a 6:20 p.m. to see the Flag Retreat Ceremony on Main Street at Town Square. I had a wonderful location right next to the front of the Flag Pole (where the Welcome plaque is) and I could see all of Town Square from that location. During the Ceremony, while the National Athem was being played I looked down Main Street and was quite gratified to see that everyone on Main Street was standing still where-ever they where and was turned facing the Flag as it was lowered. Then I turned a little more to the right and had a perfect view into the "Pin Traders" area just outside the Pin Trader Store. Not one pin trader in that area was paying any attention at all. None of them stood. None of them stopped their stupid pin trading. NOT ONE!!! When the Flag was folded and carried out, the Honor Guard passes right by this loaction, not more that 3 or 4 feet from them. NOT ONE PERSON STOOD OR PAID ANY RESPECT TO THE FLAG AT ALL!!!! This has made me so angry that I will never trade pins with any of these UnAmerican Scum who sit back there all day long and trade pins. In fact the whole business of buying pins at all has been soured. I never bought pins to trade anyway, but I had been thinking that maybe some of the extra pins I had aquired by accident (buying a pins and them getting home and finding I already had it) maybe I could get some neat pins that I missed. But that has gone by the wayside. Every convention that I have been to lately these same scum are all over the place, pushing and shoving and just being all around some of the rudest, pushiest of Disney Collectors (Which they are not anyway) I have seen. I will not longer particitpate in this disgusting "Hobby". Anyway, from what I have heard stated from people in those lines, is they don't care a fig about the pins. All they want to do is grab as many as they can and then put them up on ebay for 10 times the price they paid. I hate this aspect of Disney Collecting that has just ruined everything for me

Sorry this is so long, but I am furious with those idiots I saw last Sunday. If I had the power, they would have been thrown out of the Park and banned from ever setting foot in again.

lisap
09-19-2001, 08:14 PM
dear Lost Boy,
I said this on another thread, but I feel like repeating it--I saw the EXACT same thing on Saturday last week. I was even in the same place you were. To continue with their transactions even as the flag was escorted RIGHT by them struck me as incredibly disrespectful. Arrgh--however,this is a free country and morons can even burn the symbol of our country without fear of reprisal. too bad people hold ceremonies like this so cheaply.

I can't go as far as you and label ALL pin traders as scum, however tempting! I just had a very nice conversation last Saturday with a serious pin trader who was not at all scummy:D so there is hope out there.....

Ace
09-19-2001, 08:46 PM
these are obviously not the people who gave blood, money, sweat, or tears to the tragedy of last week. I think that if people were more like the people on these boards, life would be a lot better. Example 1: At least 3/4 of the people here have replaced their usual picture with a flag and their usual signature with something like "god bless America". you guys rock.

Nigel2
09-19-2001, 09:17 PM
Pin traders are a bad lot when they act that way, I didn't notice them on sunday, since I was there before the opening I looked to see if they made a Ludwig Von Drake pin, and I was happy to see it was made so I bought it (this is like the 2nd pin I have purchased ever), where was I, oh yeah they are really scary, one day I will tip one of the vest wearing freaks:D and laugh as he/she is turtled trying to get up MUWHAHAHAHAHAHA. They actually act like they are trading things of real value, god people just trade stock it can be much more intense.

MickeyD
09-19-2001, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by Squinky
you guys rock.

:D You rock too, Squinky! :D

Embalmerdude
09-19-2001, 11:11 PM
friends,
I completely understand the fact that most of these pin traders are ill mannered and conceited. they are there for the sake of business so that they can make money off these pins.
I am a true Disney fan and an Avid Pin Collector, I collect pins because I like them and not for their $$$ value. I do trade on occasion but usually with cast members because I love talking with them. Its also a great way to meet people and start up conversations around the park.
I do wear a vest but I consider myself a Pin Fan not a Pin Freak. I enjoy trading with others but I will not trade with those freaks that are outside the Showcase on Main Street. The area amongst good pin traders is known as the "Pit". Those folks are unfriendly and are out to take advantage of others. They are the bad seeds and unfortunately the most visible.
I will be out at Disneyland today (Thursday) primarily to be present for the flag retreat. I hope most of you will come up and say hello because I know if someone tipped me over I wouldnt be able to get up.

mad4mky
09-20-2001, 08:43 AM
This has just gotten out of control.

When we went to WDW in 1999, my girls thought it was a fun thing to do while we were there, trading pins with CM's and such. I let them pick out a few to buy...and we all chose some to keep because we liked them, and if they saw one they liked better, they traded. But...we didn't wear them, we kept them in a little bag, and put them away, only to pull them out if we saw a CM with one we liked.
End of story...
Until we went to DL a while later...and the girls asked if I brought their bag of pins to trade. I told them yes. What a mistake. This people are ruthless, and pushy. Right away my girls soured on this so called "hobby" and pin trading. We put away our little bag in my backpack...and when I got home it went into a cabnet. The fun was gone for them. When we went down again in May, I bought some pins, because they are cute and I want to keep them and wear on my everyday clothes. But never again will we do this "trade". It is a "bad show" almost all the way around.

Of course, as lisap pointed out, their are probably some very nice, good eggs out there...but they seem to be few and far between.

But back to the flag ceremony. It is VERY disrespectful to not stop and stand at attention. My children know they stop, listen and stand quietly. No matter where we are. Too bad some poeple just don't "get it"...

AVP
09-20-2001, 09:01 AM
Forgive me if I sound like I'm always jumping in to defend the pin traders, but I do have to say this much:

I was in the pin trading area one night two weeks ago, BEFORE the attacks. When it came time for the flag retreat, EVERY person stopped what they were doing and stood quietly to watch the flag retreat. That has actually been my experiece with that group, so I was suprised to see these posts. My guess is that the weekend crowd is a little different than the weekday regulars.

Now, contrast that to this past week, when Disneyland had their "Moment of Silence" on the National Day of Prayer and Rememberence. I was in Town Plaza, taking pictures for MousePlanet during the ceremony. There was a group of three Cast Members who were nudging each other, whispering and giggling through the moment of silence. When the crowd sang God Bless America, they just continued on with some unrelated conversation. I wouldn't call them Cast Member Scum - I would call them scummy Cast Members. Just like I don't call pin traders scum as a group - but some members of the species deserve the title.

Adrienne VP

adriennek
09-20-2001, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by AVP
I wouldn't call them Cast Member Scum - I would call them scummy Cast Members. Just like I don't call pin traders scum as a group - but some members of the species deserve the title.

As an Annual Passholder, I am often offended by CMs who paint all APs with the same broad brush. We all know that there are scummy APs and many of us try to avoid that characterization for ourselves.

It has been made very clear over and over on these boards that, yes, there *are* pin traders who are scummy. I am not a pin trader but I have some good friends who are. I've listened to them discuss the scum 'of the species' as AVP put it. I know that they exist. But I will not burden all pin traders with the title just like I don't want that applied to me as an AP.

Adrienne K

Nigel2
09-20-2001, 12:04 PM
Basically you can tell the freak/scum/adict pin traders from normal/good/light adict pin traders. The freaks go to disneyalnd wearing enough metal on them to add 5 pounds to their weight, and they seem to not go on any rides. Here is a good question has anyone ever seen a pintrader go on any attraction that moves? I havent even seen a lanyard wearing one. Speaking of addicted freaks, why do these people wait in 2 hour lines to buy pins? I remember when some pins were being sold for DCA (before it opened to anyone) there was a huge line outside of the exit hall for Lincoln. Its rediculous waiting in line for enamled metal isn't my idea of a fun packed day at Disneyland.

cstephens
09-20-2001, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by Nigel2
Basically you can tell the freak/scum/adict pin traders from normal/good/light adict pin traders. The freaks go to disneyalnd wearing enough metal on them to add 5 pounds to their weight, and they seem to not go on any rides. Here is a good question has anyone ever seen a pintrader go on any attraction that moves? I havent even seen a lanyard wearing one. Speaking of addicted freaks, why do these people wait in 2 hour lines to buy pins? I remember when some pins were being sold for DCA (before it opened to anyone) there was a huge line outside of the exit hall for Lincoln. Its rediculous waiting in line for enamled metal isn't my idea of a fun packed day at Disneyland.

I still think you're doing people a disservice by using a broad brush, no matter how well-defined you think your brush is. Why not just deal with people on an individual basis rather than based on appearances?

I've waited in some pretty long lines for pins. What comes to mind is the Disneyana opening and re-opening days when I spent quite some time waiting in line, but my husband and I also ended up striking up a conversation with someone we were in line with, and she was very nice, so we had a pleasant conversation with her as we waited.

As for the "fun packed day at Disneyland", no, waiting in line for pins isn't my idea of that either, and on days when I want a fun packed day at DL, I'm usually not doing any pin-related stuff. Being an AP, I have the luxury of only going to DL for an hour or two to pick up some pins I like and then have the rest of the day free to do other stuff. If I was there on a day pass, I'd probably have nothing more to do with the pins than just what I would on any other souvenir merchandise.

Different things strike different people's fancy. While there's never an excuse to be rude or anything like that, I see no reason why people should be put down because they're interested in something others aren't. I like pins fine, and no, I couldn't envision myself ever spending any length of time discussing or poring over pins at DL, but if others want to do that and it doesn't hurt anyone, what difference does it make?

Doodle Duck
09-20-2001, 03:31 PM
um....oh never mind.

Cadaverous Pallor
09-20-2001, 03:42 PM
How DARE people wear a lot of PINS to DISNEYLAND! How dare they stand in 2 hour lines? The nerve of some of these people, coming to a place they love to purchase a collectible! :eek:

Please, people, if you want to be mad about something, be mad about ANYONE that doesn't care about the flag retreat. You know, I saw some Muslims kill a lot of people on TV - that doesn't mean that I can make judgements about all or most Muslims. Whenever you encounter an overly rude person, be mad at THEM, no matter if they're a pin fan or an AP or a CM or any old guest. Would you say "I saw a little blond girl do something rude at Dland, I hate little blond girls!"


I will not longer particitpate in this disgusting "Hobby".
LostBoy, you have to divide things here. Is it the pin purchasing that you hate? The hobby itself is not disgusting. What's disgusting is rudeness. If you buy pins and trade them and are a nice person, there's nothing disgusting about it.

my 2 cents

BTW MickeyD and Squinky BOTH rock :cool:

Lost Boy
09-20-2001, 07:49 PM
Ok, I guess my opinion was a little too broad. What I meant, and still mean, is that the weekend crowd of 5 or 6 "Pin Traders" that hang out all day long in the "Pit" (thanks to those of you who posted and provided descriptions for me) are the "Scum" that show total disrespect for everything. They are rude, crude, dirty, and really give all the nice collectors a bad name. What has soured me to Pin Trading is that there is a small group (in addition to the afore mentioned "Scum") that buy as many "limited" pins as they can, even if no one else in line gets one, to simply put them on ebay for an inflated value. I buy pins once in awhile myself. I don't trade, even with castmembers. I talk to more Castmembers than most people. I have made a lot of Castmember friends because of the way I treat them and that includes "Costumed Characters" as well. I did not mean to imply that I thought all "Pin Traders" are scum. I have met and talked to some really nice, friendly people who are there to buy pins for the same reason that I do. They strike my fancy, or are of a character or attraction that I really love. So, if I gave the wrong impression, forgive me please. I am really angry at the few who spoiled a 100% attention to the Flag Ceremony and made it only 95%. I hope all this makes sense.

Nigel2
09-20-2001, 09:51 PM
Where do you people find the nice traders? The ones I see when I walk by the carts (and I mean all of them) seem like they are rude and some even bash the company which provided them with their new hobby (at a price of course) Still I want to see if there can be a new trend, forget cow tipping, lets go pin trader tipping.:D I do hate it when you walk by to just gawk at how much money they have spent and they actually think they are better than everyone else. I have also seen one of them make a little girl cry for some reason, probably a refused pin trade. But why would anyone really want to wait in a multi hour line to buy these things anyway? Its not like its a super rush or adrenaline that some get on rides here.

SimpTwister
09-20-2001, 10:09 PM
OK, first let me acknowledge that I'm completely out of my element here...

I have read many posts where people complain that the first few pin traders in a line for a new pin buy all of them and then just sell them on ebay.

Why on earth would Disney not limit the purchase of new pins to one (or maybe two, to stimulate trading) per customer???

Nigel2
09-20-2001, 10:20 PM
I think they do that, since the carts have a 5 pin limit I think. But it is sad if you wanted a pin of a character and it happens to be special edition at the time so every pin trader comes and buys the max to sell on ebay at an inflated price.

steamboatStu
09-21-2001, 06:54 AM
Well, now I'm worried...

My two daughters and my wife started on pin trading during our recent trip to WDW. They truly enjoyed it! Now I return to this coast with the intent of trading some of the WDW pins for DL pins and now I'm terrified of letting my kids wear their pins in the park! I put together some pins of my own to wear - mostly collected from my employer (Boeing/Rockwell) commemorating our space program. I'm afraid to even show those now.

Is this a true representation of pin trading on the west coast? Are our guests that much worse than those visiting WDW? If so, I'm afraid I may have to put an end to my daughter's newest hobby. So to those 5% that Lostboy speaks of, why don't you get back on the beenie baby kick so I don't have to be an ogre?!!!

rnrcollectables
09-21-2001, 07:28 AM
I am an annual passholder at WDW and will be making my FIRST trip to DL in a few weeks.

I collect and trade pins at WDW all the time and have had FEW experineces with rude people there.

I have to say DL sounds terrible ! I have heard stories that DTD is bad but until today never heard anything bad about the park.
I am thinking maybe I should leave my vest/pins at home?

AVP
09-21-2001, 08:05 AM
AArrrgghhh!

Disneyland Pin Traders are NOT child-eating monsters. YES, there are some bad apples, but you guys are painting the whole orchard with your characterizations!

Bring your children, and their pins. Even if your children NEVER go near the "Tank", there are hundreds of Cast Members who wear lanyards. Kids can have a great time doing nothing but trading with CMs, who don't shark you for your good pins, and can't refuse a trade in most cases.

Bring your pins, and your lanyard and even your vest if you want. I have had some bad experiences with pin traders, but the majority of them are good people who are really into their hobby. Yes, sitting at Disneyland all week waiting for a mystery pin might seem a little strange to most, but hey - that's their thing. I know people who have already taken a WEEK off from work to camp out for the next Star Wars movie.

People are strange - thank goodness for every last pin-grubbing, movie-stalking, mouse-loving one of them. If someone is rude to you, walk away. If someone is VERY rude to you, or really disrupts your experience, talk to a Cast Member. But, just come and enjoy yourselves. It's DISNEYLAND folks - enjoy!

Dlandmom
09-21-2001, 08:56 AM
Hi, folks. I haven't had much time to post recently, but reading this thread really wanted me to add another two cents.

As several have characterized properly (in my opinion), this thread is sort of reflecting what's going on in the "real" world...and there's so much to learn from what folks are saying. I'm not saying anyone is bad or good or anything remotely like that. We just ALWAYS have to be very careful not to judge or misjudge. Just as we shouldn't assume all Muslims, Arabs or those who look like Muslims or Arabas are terrorists, we shouldn't assume all pin traders are rude.

I like pins, but I'm not a pin trader. I've purchased maybe 10 pins in my lifetime, but for me I buy them for memories. Others don't, and that's fine. What we have to realize is that we're all different, and that's okay.

Like AVP and AdrienneK and others, I know some pin traders, and they're decent folk. I've also seem others who are ruthless (to put it mildly), and that's just not right. But in every "sphere" there will be bad eggs, but please don't generalize (and I know most of you here weren't...sometimes we have to be careful not to assume that).

For those of you who are interested in pin trading or visiting DL, please do so and bring your pins. It isn't always a "bad" thing. If you (or worse, your children) are bullied about by the bad seeds, then politely decline and inform a Cast Member. No one should tolerate rude behavior.

Thanks for letting me speak my heart...this is a time when we're reminded strongly that we should always be tolerant for fear that we wrongly persecute others, or we ourselves are persecuted wrongly. I know that sounds harsh, but I just couldn't avoid the similarities in this thread.

Peace to all. God Bless America.

marron-cream
09-21-2001, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by AVP
AArrrgghhh!

Disneyland Pin Traders are NOT child-eating monsters.

"AArrrgghhh" is right!

Sheesh. I'm a cast member AND a pin trader! I hope that doesn't make me scum either way you look at it.

I've met some bad pin traders. One instance that comes to mind is New Year's Day, 2001. My best friend's husband is a security officer at the park. The CMs that day got a really pretty New Year's Pin. My friend, her two-year-old daughter, and I were visiting him and he gave his daughter the pin to put on her lanyard. She's very happy with it, we go on our way. We're not very far when two women start stalking us. They want that New Year's pin. My friend tells them nicely that she doesn't want to trade. They don't listen and keep following us at a distance. Okay, whatever. We ignore them. We stop somewhere to tie a shoe and drink some water. While my friend is busy with the water, the two traders approach the little girl and ask if she wants to make a trade. Hey, if you can't get anywhere with the middleman, go directly to the source, huh? They had almost struck out a deal when my friend notices what's happening and tells them to get lost. The proposed trade? TWO of the cheap, cheesy, banned epoxy MM pins for the New Year's pin. They were going to shark this HTF pin off a two-year-old girl. That's unbelievably mean.

So I've seen this account firsthand. Does it mean I think all traders are evil scum? No. Because I also have some great pin trader experiences. When I was desperately looking for a Donald Duck WD travel company pin, a trader opened up his bag and handed me one. No questions asked. No proposed trade. All he saw was that I really wanted one.

I collected beanies during the big craze. Does that mean I was one of those psycho people who charged the shipment trucks? No. There are good and bad elements to every hobby.

cstephens
09-21-2001, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by SimpTwister
Why on earth would Disney not limit the purchase of new pins to one (or maybe two, to stimulate trading) per customer???

They do have a limit of 5 pins per style per customer, but I think that limit is too high, and I've seen people buy 5 pins at one location and then just get in line at another location and buy 5 more.

I've been spouting off on a 2-pin limit for quite some time now, but then, Disney doesn't consult me about these things. And, really, Disney has no real motive to implement that stringent a limit. They're going to sell out their LE pins in any case, and it probably makes no difference to them who buys the pins, or what people do with the pins they buy. I expect that if they were to implement a 2-pin limit, they'd get a lot of complaints from the people who buy the pins in mass quantities, and Disney may not want to deal with that.

EandCDad
09-21-2001, 09:41 AM
I agree with the obvious sentiment that all pin traders are not bad. But as far as generalizations go, we have different people who have reported that the pin traders on both Saturday AND Sunday who were in the pin trading area by the flag pole on Main Street failed to acknowledge the flag ceremony in any way. It seems unlikely that this was a one of a kind action on their part but the norm for that group in that area. We certainly can't hold all pin traders responsible for their actions but I'm going to go with Lost Boy's characterization for those in the "pit" on those days.

Disney Crone/Kid
09-21-2001, 09:52 AM
"What is that love which is based on greed? When there is greed, the love is false."

Not a pin collector, I've only seen one person wearing a lanyard at Disneyland; apparently, my attention is focused elsewhere. By reading this thread, however, I've been introduced to a whole new Disney subculture.

My reaction: I can't help loving Classroom Earth/Classroom Disney even more for the unexpected lessons provided:

Lessons about misbehavior motivated by simple greed. We couldn't ask for better textbook examples to teach our kids (and the kids within ourselves) of how NOT to be.

Let's face it, inherent selfishness is present in everybody. In me. Yes, in you. In the most perfect of us. It's healthy when it drives each of us to provide for and to protect ourselves. Greed is inherent selfishness gone awry, without restraint. Most unhealthy.

Misbehaving pin traders provide prime illustrations of greed in action. Going beyond actual needs, from what you describe, they have little, if any, regard for others. They are without respect for their country and world. They serve as examples in the flesh of people blinded by illusion, caught up by materialism and egoism.

They also serve as examples of the consequences of greedy misbehavior. Look at the alienation and rifts they cause. Look at the negativity they create. Look at the quality of their lives. Pitiful, in my eyes. I wouldn't want any one of them as my best friend, would you?

There is always justice: A person who treats others poorly is reflecting how he/she treats his/her Self. Notice how persons who treat others well are far happier and at ease, reflecting also the way they treat their happy, secure Selves?

A question to ask: is my love for pins based on love (for Disney, for a beloved character, for an attraction, for its symbolism)... or on greed?

If it is based on love, even if I am not a collector of things, I support your true love 110%!