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merlinjones
11-15-2003, 06:26 PM
He kicked out the Imagineers and the Cartoonists, he buried Walt's film library and banned it from the Disney Channel, he closed classic attractions associated with Walt and ran down the maintenence on others, he overleveraged the brand and changed the meaning of the Disney name, he didn't create a major celebration for Walt's 100th or Mickey's 75th, he didn't fight publication of "Hollywood's Dark Prince", he has encouraged the rejection of Waltcentric fans/employees/AP's...

It makes one wonder: Does Eisner want everything personally associated with Walt to be gone before he leaves? Would that include Disneyland?

MrTomMorrow
11-15-2003, 06:43 PM
I think he's doing it to try to make a profit without realizing that doing so cuts creativity and innovation and will lead to the loss of profits.

It's very short-sighted thinking, indeed. Save a little money now, but lose untold and significantly greater amounts in the future.

Doodle Duck
11-15-2003, 07:14 PM
There comes a point where you have so much money and the power it brings that the rules don't matter anymore...It's like playing with toy soldiers...you just move them carelessly around the pile of dirt and see what comes about.

I don't think he could care less about Walt or a legasy or anything at this point.

He also probably realizes the game is as 'done' with him as he is with the 'game'.

Pathetic.

wendybeth
11-15-2003, 09:00 PM
I truly believe that Eisner's intended legacy is to eradicate the 'Walt' from the Walt Disney Company. He is never going to be able to establish anything close to what Walt has, and he must get tired of all the negative comparisons. He has the money, he has power, and it's not enough for him. He must be a very sad, small minded man; how infuriating it must be to have so many reminders (despite his attempts to re-brand) of the genius of Mr. Disney. I don't think he can give up the power, but he despises the source of that power- sort of in a hell of his own making. One day he'll be gone, and Disneyland will still be there- and his only legacy (if people remember him at all) will be "isn't that the jerk that tried to ruin Disneyland?".... :cool:

sleepyjeff
11-15-2003, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by MrTomMorrow
I think he's doing it to try to make a profit without realizing that doing so cuts creativity and innovation and will lead to the loss of profits.

It's very short-sighted thinking, indeed. Save a little money now, but lose untold and significantly greater amounts in the future.

Yes, this is indeed what is going on. The results may end up the same( loss of Disneyland ), but I doubt that Eisner is "out to destroy Walts legacy".........even though at times it sure does seem like it.

wendybeth
11-15-2003, 09:51 PM
I have to respectfully disagree, Sleepyjeff. I think that DoodleDuck's right on the money, and I think that Eisners' end game is sort of a scorched earth policy. I doubt it will work; there are too many people that love Disneyland and it will survive the man. He is an intelligent man; he never would have gotten to where he is if he wasn't. He has no vision, no imagination, no apparent direction- and he knows it. If he wanted to, he could buy it, but like most despots he has rid his court of all capable people. That will be his downfall, and if his successor has any sense at all he/she will rehire all the talent he has so thoughtlessly cast aside. Btw, anyone seen the the trailer for Shrek II? Looks great...:D

sleepyjeff
11-15-2003, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by wendybeth
I have to respectfully disagree, Sleepyjeff. I think that DoodleDuck's right on the money, and I think that Eisners' end game is sort of a scorched earth policy. I doubt it will work; there are too many people that love Disneyland and it will survive the man. He is an intelligent man; he never would have gotten to where he is if he wasn't. He has no vision, no imagination, no apparent direction- and he knows it. If he wanted to, he could buy it, but like most despots he has rid his court of all capable people. That will be his downfall, and if his successor has any sense at all he/she will rehire all the talent he has so thoughtlessly cast aside. Btw, anyone seen the the trailer for Shrek II? Looks great...:D

Yeah. I agree with DoodleDuck too. DD said that Eisner just doesn't care anymore....I agree. I don't think he is actively trying to destroy anything. Nor is he trying to preserve the Walt Disney name/legacy either.

I certainly agree with you on the results of his behavior....just not on the motivation. After all, he is greedy.......and most of his wealth is tied up with the company; so to destroy that company is not very wise on his part( and you said yourself he is an intelligent man). Than again, maybe he has so much money socked away, that he can grant himself the indulgence of hateful spite towards the founder of his company.

Remember, before you go too far with the no imagination theory, who brought the World Happy Days, Roots, Beveraly Hills Cop, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Terms of Endearment, Elephant Man, and numerous other classics.:)

blusilva
11-16-2003, 05:29 AM
Originally posted by wendybeth
I truly believe that Eisner's intended legacy is to eradicate the 'Walt' from the Walt Disney Company. He is never going to be able to establish anything close to what Walt has, and he must get tired of all the negative comparisons. He has the money, he has power, and it's not enough for him. He must be a very sad, small minded man; how infuriating it must be to have so many reminders (despite his attempts to re-brand) of the genius of Mr. Disney. I don't think he can give up the power, but he despises the source of that power- sort of in a hell of his own making.

Eisner was a studio head before he hit Disney and would be snapped up in a nanosecond by another studio if he put out feelers. If he's all wrapped up in his own personal hell at Disney, he could easily just mosey along.

I don't imagine Eisner wakes up every morning with a hearty "Muwahahahaha":~D and starts hatching evil plans to eradicate the memory of Walt Disney from the collective consciousness at breakfast. He's struggling to keep an 70+ year-old brand from becoming obsolete. He's just going about it all the wrong ways because he understands neither the appeal nor the audience of the brand. Plus, he's forced to serve his stockholders before he serves the people who buy his product. It's a bad combo for this particular company. IMHO.

merlinjones
11-16-2003, 07:14 AM
wendybeth is on the money. there are too many other ways to approach freshening and expanding the Disney 'brand". the approach is more than consistent. That Eisner has taken every opportunity to excise Walt's influences and the people who want to expand on those aesthetics is certainly more than coincidence. it is a failed vision. ...and envy.

after all, this is the man who reportedly called walt "a fraud" in a company meeting. revealing?

we can't forget that the executive ranks of the company are also populated with social engineers as well as profiteers. the traditionalist apsects of Walt Disney are on the chopping block along with his legacy. moral relativism and collectivism isn't perpetuated by Walt's film library and attractions. so they must go... not because of their lack of making profit (just trying to profit? it is said Song of the South could take in $200 million on video, but that is left on the table for subjective reasons - - and that's just the most extreme example).

This is a lethal combination for the company's businesses... following trends rather than leading, following the common wisdom of marketers and analysts, presenting common household product rather than premium, overmarketing, overleveraging franchise extensions, changing the meaning of the brand/Disney name, social engineering through tightly controlled content and propoganda, lowering the artistic content, phasing out of the "founder's" works, trying to separate themselves from the founder's POV (which has everything to do with the brand name itself).

No wonder there isn't a clear message to market anymore. it has been muddied on purpose. only the executives that want to change the brand have any power.

whomever advised eisner that the brand must change and that they must divorce themselves from walt (strategic planning? eisner himself?) was dead wrong. The company won't survive it in its current form. it will become ABC Inc with a Disney liscencing/rights holding subsidiary.

I hope Disneyland survives it.

merlinjones
11-16-2003, 07:23 AM
>>I don't imagine Eisner wakes up every morning with a hearty "Muwahahahaha" and starts hatching evil plans to eradicate the memory of Walt Disney from the collective consciousness at breakfast. <<

I think its more a matter of total revulsion to everything Walt represents on an ongoing basis. ...and the constant negative comparsion. There is no need to hatch every morning - - each decision comes out colored by that agenda naturally.


>>He's struggling to keep an 70+ year-old brand from becoming obsolete. He's just going about it all the wrong ways because he understands neither the appeal nor the audience of the brand. Plus, he's forced to serve his stockholders before he serves the people who buy his product. It's a bad combo for this particular company. IMHO.<<

The flawed thinking is that the Disney brand is self-renewing due to the nature of the evergreen, timeless product. the stuff is never "old" to kids... it's always new to the next generation, and has been for all of that 70 years. You just have to have the will and flair to remarket those ideals to a new wave. the problem comes when you want to change the message... anyone for DCA or a CGI politically correct remake of Peter Pan? This is simple misdirection of what was once a very clear message.

And I don't think he understands the majority of stockholders and what they would like for the company either - - execpt perhaps the elite institutional investor groups.

wendybeth
11-16-2003, 11:25 AM
Eisner may be a genius at business, but I fail to see any real evidence of personal imagination or artistic creativity. Over his long career he has had the intelligence to surround himself with people of vision, but he has also developed quite a reputation for driving the same individuals away. He may have green lighted projects that proved successful, but those projects were developed by others. He is no Lucas or Speilberg; he treats talent with contempt, an I attribute that to envy.

sleepyjeff
11-16-2003, 11:46 AM
Well, whether intentional or not, the result is the same. Disneyland continues to lose some of it's magic. The Disney name now seems more generic---General Electric no longer makes people think of Edison anymore. AT&T no longer is associated with Bell anymore. Sure, people still know who started those companies; but they don't automatically think of their founders when the company is mentioned.........that is starting to happen with Disney. Is Eisner at fault. Yes. But is it because of Eisners failings that this is happening......or is it because of his successes. It could be argued either way I suppose.

There was a time that I never would choose to go to DisneyWorld over Disneyland. Why? Because, as great as WDW was, it did not have that special feel, Walts' personal touch. Now, it seems, Disneyland is losing that special feel.

Ideally, the Disney Company( yeah, I know, Eisner screwed up the name too ), would be operated by someone with a sense of historic perspective, and deep respect for Walt. Instead we have Eisner. Eisner was hired to save the company Walt founded....he did that. Eisner was kept on to make that company bucket loads of money...he did that. When the stockholders start to figure it out(that Eisner is killing the longterm health of the company), he will be forced out.....I hope:)

Omar
11-16-2003, 12:08 PM
If DLR closes down he and the company will loose soo much profits its not funny. I wouldn't worry though, it will never happen unless a natural disaster hits or something.

Omar

sleepyjeff
11-16-2003, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by Omar
If DLR closes down he and the company will loose soo much profits its not funny. I wouldn't worry though, it will never happen unless a natural disaster hits or something.

Omar

I don't think anyone really thinks Disneyland will actually close down. What we are worried about is that Disneyland will no longer really be Disneyland.

It could easily turn into a Six Flags over McDonaldland( just like it's parking lot);)

wendybeth
11-16-2003, 02:49 PM
I just read Kevin Yee's issues update over at MA, and he makes an interesting point about the potential of a board led ousting of Eisner. It remains to be seen whether or not they will accept responsibility for the Ovitz mess, or apply the blame where it belongs, but if the suit is successful it will certainly change the way business is conducted. :)

DrIndianaJones
11-16-2003, 09:37 PM
For about the past four years the Board has threatened to toss him out. Now the shareholders are mad at Eisner too, and there is a petition going around to bring his ousting to a vote.
It will be a very interesting year, with Matt in charge and a potential boot to Eisner.

Aunt Tithesis
11-17-2003, 07:58 AM
I say that George W. Bush should send troops to overthrow Eisner and put merlinjones as CEO of Disney! :D

wendybeth
11-17-2003, 10:08 AM
Great idea, Aunt Tithesis! It appears that Mr. Eisner is experiencing The Peter Principle- he has risen to his own level of incompetence, and it's going to be very difficult for him to turn this around. Everything I've read about him indicates he has a real problem dealing with artistic and creative talent, yet he has chosen to work in an industry that is talent driven. There is no doubt in my mind that he blames his failing 'vision' on what he probably sees as the cult of Walt; he's excised everyone who understood and believed in Walt's ideals from the company, and there's no one to go after now. He just doesn't get it, and he never will.

merlinjones
11-17-2003, 01:44 PM
>>I say that George W. Bush should send troops to overthrow Eisner and put merlinjones as CEO of Disney! <<

I will go to Burbank and I will clean house.

LifelongAngelsFan
11-17-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by merlinjones
>>I say that George W. Bush should send troops to overthrow Eisner and put merlinjones as CEO of Disney! <<

I will go to Burbank and I will clean house.

Could you start with dumping ABC and the ABC Family Channel? What fiascos those two acquisitions were...both financialy and culturaly.

cryan71
11-17-2003, 02:00 PM
I'm going to tell on all of you for besmirking the good name of Michael Eisner. See if your AP works next time.

Muwahahahaha!

merlinjones
11-17-2003, 03:45 PM
>>I will go to Burbank and I will clean house.<<
>>Could you start with dumping ABC and the ABC Family Channel? What fiascos those two acquisitions
were...both financialy and culturaly.<<

My first executive action will be to spin off ABC Inc, ESPN, Miramax, Hollywood Records, the Mighty Ducks and any other non-Disney assets to the highest bidder or as a new stock offering.

My second executive action will be to pull all animated sequels and series from the marketplace, cancel all such works in production and development and send the masters to deep storage in the Kansas film vaults. This action will also close the Toon Disney and Television Animation divisions permanently.

My third executive action will be to announce a theatrical reissue of Walt Disney's classic Song of the South (fully restored) for Spring 2004, followed by a special edition DVD at popular prices.

My fourth executive action will be to relaunch the Disney Channel with a 24 hour marathon of all of Walt Disney's films, shorts and specials uncut and in chronological order to salute his birthday Dec 5.

My fifth executive action will restore all of Disneyland's current and dormant attractions to pristine condition in preparation for the 50th anniversary. I will also make Disney's California Adventure part of Downtown Disney effective immediately with more changes to follow.

My sixth executive action will fire all Senior executives, Presidents, Vice-Presidents, Directors. Junior executives and Producers in the entire Walt Disney Company, as well as the majority of the Finance, Legal, and Strategic Planning divisions - - to be replaced by interim managers from Walt Disney Productions as we review new talent and promote from within. The action will also terminate all consultant contracts and political contributions and talent deals.

My Seventh executive action will be to place finance and legal and marketing under creative in the company hierarchy. They will support and supply the means to create product, not drive the process.

I will then have a big party on Stage Two.

Tomorrow we begin hiring new talent and examining new projects for all divisions while continuing to can current projects and divisions and re-establish the talent and support structure for Animation and Imagineering. We will look for new creative aquisitions and parterships, such as Pixar, Apple, MGM and Lucasfilm. We will offer to buy Warner bros animation, comic book, Cartoon Network and family film assets. We will also form a plan to remarket the Walt Disney library and to renew the brand identity and mission statement as "Look to the name Walt Disney for the Finest in Family Entertainment."

As Walt said, "Disneyland is Your Land." We will do it for the people!

wendybeth
11-17-2003, 03:55 PM
Yeah, sure, MerlinJones; sounds great, but what I really want to know is....... just what exactly do you plan on doing with the big, ugly yellow TDA building? :D (And when's the party?:) )

merlinjones
11-17-2003, 04:10 PM
>>just what exactly do you plan on doing with the big, ugly yellow TDA building?<<

I will raze the big, ugly yellow TDA building and place essential management back in very small offices behind attractions in the park and relocate non-essential management off site in a rented facility in Garden Grove, way down on Chapman somewhere by the porno shops. Then I will make plans for an entirely new, spectacular state of the art escapist land behind Fantasyland and Tomorrowland, perhaps based on Tokyo DisneySea designs, perhaps all new. Scheduling for pitches will begin tomorrow.

I will also rebuild the famous Disneyland logo sign with the yellow modernist background and place it on the site of TDA, towering over the Santa Ana Freeway. I will also add to it the words "Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom. The Happiest Place on Earth".

>>(And when's the party? )<<

How early can you be there?

Klutch
11-17-2003, 04:13 PM
I don't think Eisner is evil or incompetent. I think he views Disneyland as the past and I think he fell into the trap that all too many executives fall into these days; they try to follow trends and consultants. The last thing a company wants is to be old fashioned and dated.

Take CBS, for example. The network was getting strong ratings with shows like "Murder, She Wrote". Alas, that program's audience was dominated by old fogeys. Advertisers want young, hip, trendies to watch shows and spend big money on designer products. So, CBS pulled the plug on Angela Lansberry. When CBS hit it big with "Survivor", the executives were patting themselves on the back for turning the network around to a young, hip audience.

No doubt Disney execs thought the same thing. They see Walt as an icon for old fogeys. They too want to attract young, hip, trendies who drop big bucks on high-priced dinners and products. The Walt Disney Company assumed they could count on their traditional audience no matter what. They tried to lure the coveted hipsters with new marketing and "thrill parks".

As all of us here know, the concept has failed. DCA turns off thrill seekers and Disney fans alike. The Disney stores are dying because they chased away their loyal customers and couldn't attract new buyers with Wal-Mart merchandise. Disney channel is now a joke for anyone over 12. Disneyland Paris is near finacial ruin after the new, DCA-like Studio park failed to generated buzz or revenue.

Interestingly, all three big TV networks are currently in panic due to Nielsen reporting they lost a full 20% of their male audience. The execs are currently in denial, "There's a mistake in the ratings. It simply didn't happen." Sound familiar? "There's an economic downturn." "We've had unprecedented rainy weather". Yada, yada, yada.

You can't build a network around shows like "Survivor". Just like you can't build an entertainment business around parks like DCA.

Disneyland will not only survive, it will become the new, classic paradigm for success where so many other trends have failed.