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Mr. Wiggins
11-08-2003, 11:28 PM
In "Disneyland's Ride Upkeep Criticized by Park Workers," the Los Angeles Times describes the cutbacks in Park maintenance under Paul Pressler.

While the comments of Disneyland's maintenance workers won't surprise any regular readers of this board, one quote is an eyebrow-raiser:

...Smith's description echoed a comment that three workers say Pressler made in January 1998 during an impromptu visit to the Disneyland Railroad's workshop.

"He said, 'We have to ride these rides to failure to save money,' " said David O'Neill, a train operator who has worked at the park since 1957 and was among those present. "I was surprised anyone would say that."


Full text (registration required) is here (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-disney9nov09,1,1979925.story?coll=la-headlines-california-manual)

merlinjones
11-09-2003, 05:49 AM
>>He said, 'We have to ride these rides to failure to save money,' " said David O'Neill, a train operator who has worked at the park since 1957 and was among those present. "I was surprised anyone would say that."<<

If so, Pressler should be put up on manslaughter charges, IMHO.

The Lovely Mrs. tod
11-09-2003, 07:25 AM
'We have to ride these rides to failure to save money,'

That's one of the most frightening things I've ever heard.

I have had some concerns lately about the amount of time my kids spend on Indiana Jones but I thought I was just being a fretful, overprotective mother (my boys are both in their early teens).

Now I'm wondering is maybe I SHOULD put my foot down and restrict their access to both that and the Matterhorn?

-TLMt

Doodle Duck
11-09-2003, 07:29 AM
No, not surprised but it is a shocking statement which should lead to an investigation...if he said it this one time reflecting his attitude, I'll bet he said it many more times with added deatail.
Merlin Jones is on target. Was Pressler clever enough to come with a creative 'slogan' like that? Or did he hear it from someone 'upstairs'?
Juicy stuff though sad.

cryan71
11-09-2003, 08:00 AM
I think a letter writing campaign to Matt and Michael expressing dire concern about the safety of the Disneyland resort is in order now. The threat that your vacation dollars will be spent in a theme park where I feel that me and my family are safe.

Mr. Wiggins
11-09-2003, 09:59 AM
I think the part of the Times article that really tells the tale -- and is even more frightening than the Pressler quote -- is the story of maintenance supervisor Bob Klostriech.

He "...was quizzed by a McKinsey consultant who was reviewing records for Big Thunder Mountain Railroad.

Why, the consultant asked, do you inspect the lap bars daily? The records show they never fail.

"Klostriech called him an idiot," said [maintenance supervisor Mike] Goodwin, who witnessed the exchange. Klostriech, he said, told the consultant: "The reason they don't fail is because we check them every night."

Klostriech, of course, was fired.

Disneyphile
11-09-2003, 11:19 AM
Color me not surprised. :rolleyes:

sleepyjeff
11-09-2003, 03:41 PM
I hope Matt fires everyone who ever said "yes" to Pathetic Pressler. That cancer needs to be removed from the Park asap.

wdtv
11-09-2003, 05:18 PM
Oh my God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, I am filing that post on my computer. This is unbelievable. Even for Pressler. I have to wonder now if he's actually human!

BJW
11-09-2003, 05:48 PM
As for what merlinjones said above about Pressler being put on manslaughter charges, I agree. I also think T. Irby and anyone else who has been responsible for the maintenance cutbacks mentioned in this article shoud be as well. I think we should do a letter-writing campaign to DOSH who is investigating the accident and to the Anaheim police department asking them to reopen their investigation. Someone should be held accountable. The columbia accident, Space Mountain's 2 accidents (derailment and brake sensor failure), and the Big Thunder accident should all be sited as part of the result of the new maintenance procedures. All this needs to stop ASAP! It could have easily have been one of your children or relatives (or even yourself) in that front row on BTMRR. The lovely Mrs. Tod is on target here, if I had any kids I probably wouldn't want them on these rides either. A massive letter writing campaign needs to start ASAP!!! Heck, I'm even thinking about starting one myself. Does anyone remember the website "Operation Preserve Disneyland?" It was ran by a guy named Eric and had petitions you could sign to save attractions, such as the Tiki room and Country Bears, and also boycotts you could participate in (ie. the ODV boycott). (Note: the site still exists, but hasn't been updated in nearly two years, see a thread I posted a few weeks ago called "Operation Preserve Disneyland.") I think a new site needs to be made that has similar campaigns and a letter writing campaign. Maybe we can make a difference.

wdtv
11-09-2003, 06:13 PM
Yeah, that site was taken over by one of those "Disney can do no wrong" folks.

I have no idea what happened to him.

I wholeheartedly agree about the criminal charges thing. After all, Pressler and his men knew what was going on, secretly probably knew the very likely consequences if something went wrong, and yet did nothing.

I also have to seriously wonder about Eisner. Was he totally unaware of all this?

merlinjones
11-09-2003, 08:35 PM
Where's Mike Wallace when you need him? You'd think he'd want revenge on Eisner anyway for the Big Tobacco/60 Minutes movie. Hey Mike: investigate Pressler and company about the Disneyland deaths and deferred maintenence and executive bonus compensation during those years!

Anybody out there know these guys?

wdtv
11-09-2003, 09:05 PM
Wouldn't it be great if Michael Moore did something on this?

"That'd" get everyone's attention.

Morrigoon
11-10-2003, 12:10 AM
Huh... whaddya know, maybe Al was right - maybe he IS the antichrist.

(tongue not-too-firmly in cheek here, folks)

justagrrl
11-10-2003, 06:14 AM
Our passes expire at the end of the year. We are going to the park in about a week and a half for my daughter's birthday and that will be it. (daughter's bday - already promised - or we wouldn't be going then.)

I have no intention of renewing the passes, based on reports about maintenence. I don't want my children to be on one of those ride it to failure rides...riding it to failure is riding it to death...both the rides and possible those onboard.

It's frightening. I don't buy the line about after it breaks it's one of the safest in the park either. I think once a ride breaks, they will do whatever is the least expensive fix to bring it online again.

I don't hear about Knott's having accidents every year. I don't hear about Magic Mountain having acccidents every year. I care more about safety then I do about the frickin' "magic" (or lack thereof).

merlinjones
11-10-2003, 07:12 AM
So who all would have benefitted personally, through executive bonus compensation, from the deferred maintenence, engineering and training cutbacks?

Pressler? Harriss? Eisner? Politt? Politt's successor(whomever)? Staggs? Irby? Iger? Others?

Who may have ordered these financial policies carried out by any means necessary? Who has blood on their hands at Team Disney?

Demigod121
11-10-2003, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by Mr. Wiggins
He "...was quizzed by a McKinsey consultant who was reviewing records for Big Thunder Mountain Railroad.

Why, the consultant asked, do you inspect the lap bars daily? The records show they never fail.

"Klostriech called him an idiot," said [maintenance supervisor Mike] Goodwin, who witnessed the exchange. Klostriech, he said, told the consultant: "The reason they don't fail is because we check them every night."

Klostriech, of course, was fired.

Gads...the sheer STUPIDITY of it all!

They shoulda made Klostriech the head of maintenance for DL/DCA for that comment! DUH!

Things like this scare the dickens out of me....maybe I will just stick to Magic Mountain! LOL!

-Demigod

tod
11-10-2003, 08:42 AM
Okay, this goes back, 20 years or so, but I think it's relevant.

There was an american car manufacturer (I'm not mentioning the name because of libel: I can give details privately to anybody who has time to look it up) that had this problem with their cars: While they were idling in the Park gear they could very easily slip into Reverse and start going backwards. This is very dangerous.

The fix would have been very simple: a machined part would have to be modified very slightly. It could be installed in new cars at the factory, and replaced in already-sold cars at dealerships.

They elected not to do anything.


They didn't want to admit there was anything wrong with their cars.
They didn't want to incur the expense of a recall of already-sold cars.
The corporate decision was made to take their chances with anybody who sued because in the long run it was cheaper.

It looks to me that Pressler, et al., elected to take this attitude. Statistically, according to the Times, the safety record is pretty good. Two deaths and a score or so injuries among the millions of admissions and tens of millions of individual ride experiences. And tens of millions of dollars back in the till because they don't spend it on maintenance any more.

But at what price? Trust is a hard thing to regain once it's lost. I know that thrill-ride technology has exceeded the human body's ability to take the punishment that can be inflicted by a ride. I hear about people getting concussions and organ damage from being thrown around too hard. I already won't go on California Screamin' because it gives me a headache. (Okay, also I'm getting older, and getting thrown around isn't as much fun as it used to be.)

The Lovely Mrs. tod already gets antsy :eek: when the Little tods head off on their Disneyland and DCA adventures. I always looked at it as overprotective mothering :mad:, but now I wonder if she wasn't on to something....

-T
:fez:

wendybeth
11-10-2003, 10:14 AM
The rather abrupt and unusual departure of Cynthia Harriss makes me wonder if perhaps she was questioning these policies...I will be the first to admit that I know very little about TDA specifically, but I do know corporate culture, and her departure was a little weird. Does anyone know of any personal reasons for her resignation, as claimed, or is it pretty much accepted that it was a forced leave? Usually, even if the person leaving was a complete incompetent the company will put a positive spin on their departure- bonuses, big farewell parties, etc. They do this to save face and buy off the individual being cut loose. This doesn't appear to have happened in this case, which is kind of strange.....

olegc
11-10-2003, 12:12 PM
The trouble with the Pressler quote is you can't do anything about it. It was not in an official company memo or a presentation. So it would be treated as heresay in a court case. It's tragic - but not actionable.

I talked with my wife about how, as a business, was this not a correct way for the parks to address maintenance issues (irregardless of the Disney fanaticism she claims I have). I had to agree yes, it was. In fact, it's so much like business that it makes the parks just like Magic Mountain or Knotts - they become just rides in a location filled with rides - no theming, no story telling, no immersive experience.

And that's the difference, I told my wife. Disney's park had been from the outset a way to get away from some outside influences, be really part of a story, get swallowed up by the magic and surroundings so that you had such a wonderful experience you'd want to come back hundreds of times. What the maintenance by statistics does not do is cover for that one anomoly that can destroy the ideal of a park like Disneyland, or the focus on stats and costs (i.e., even if the bolt may have a crack the statistics show it won't fail until next month, so don't replace it just yet).

Note - that was not a real quote, it was an example. this, unfortunately, is how some companies run their business. No hands on, no real understanding of the nuances and possible trouble down the road. Very much focused on statistical models and "planned" efforts. But - as is always known by hindsight and the writers of memoirs - knowing your craft through and through is sometimes more important than just making money...

this should be a surprise to know one - how long has everyone been talking about the "rumored" insider stuff like this.

hazlnut
11-10-2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by wendybeth
The rather abrupt and unusual departure of Cynthia Harriss makes me wonder if perhaps she was questioning these policies...

The opposite. She was at the helm when the ship hit the iceberg (BTMRR). The buck and blood stops with her.

wdtv
11-10-2003, 03:01 PM
Hopefully, this new guy can clean up the mess.

wendybeth
11-10-2003, 03:35 PM
That's kind of the point- if she is going to take the heat for everything that has (and is ) going wrong with the parks, where is the payoff for her? Did she receive a really nice severance package, one that might induce her to be silent about things? BTMRR litigation just might bring some interesting things to light- I'll bet the lawyers are a bit nervous.....

Tigertail777
11-10-2003, 03:38 PM
The problem with that thinking Olegc, is that from the outset Disney had established a whole different unique set of business rules for his parks, things that even at the time went against all corporate thought for the amusement business. But because or in spite of these Walt rules the park flourished. Walt had totally different rules about customers and workers and even made different names for them (Guests, and Cast Members) to differentiate from those other amusement places he didnt like. Disneyland was wholly different for years, and years and prospered on that difference. Only when they lost sight of Walts legacy did things begin to slip.

fairytalelover
11-10-2003, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Wiggins

"He said, 'We have to ride these rides to failure to save money,' " said David O'Neill, a train operator who has worked at the park since 1957 and was among those present. "I was surprised anyone would say that."[/I]



I don't understand this at all. So, it costs less to have rides derail and have people killed, including the lawsuits, then to just keep the rides maintained??:confused:

This really makes me consider cutting down going to DL so much. The Matterhorn concerns me the most right now.