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SteveMartin
10-21-2014, 05:04 PM
While visiting DCA this weekend (studying for the upcoming MA), I noticed a group of guests that had two dogs with them inside the park. One dog was a pit bull and the other was a lap dog (chihuahua sized). Neither dog was wearing a service animal vest and both looked to be mature older dogs.

What is the official Disney policy on service animals?

I have heard that companies cannot ask for proof of service dog credentials, and have noticed a lot of dogs claimed as service animals that look questionable to me (in many places, not just DL). Questionable = the dog does not appear to be trained or well-disciplined.

In this particular instance, the owner/handlers did not seem to know where the service animal "facilities" were and the dogs appeared distressed (it was hot).

Just a random observation.

For the record, I love dogs and am amazed at their abilities as friends and service animals. I object to people bending the rules in order to bring their pets into the park.

Nikara
10-21-2014, 07:24 PM
The rules, as I understand them, are these:
Dogs and Miniature Horses can be service animals (for the consideration of restaurants and housing but not public transit). There are no breed restrictions for the dogs, and they are not required to wear any sort of vest or marking. They do need to be "harnessed, leashed, or tethered" unless it interferes with the animal doing its task.
Only 2 questions can be asked:
1. Is this animal needed for a disability?
2. What work or task has the animal been trained to perform?

If the animal is out of control or not housebroken, the animal can be asked to leave the location. There is no license for service animals.

Why I know this- I'm responsible for certain ADA guidelines where I work, and I checked my knowledge against this fact sheet from the government: http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

Hope that helps!

carolinakid
10-22-2014, 04:15 AM
When I was at the DMV recently there was a woman with a Chihuahua that she said was a service animal. The dog was running around the rows of chairs while the woman was waiting her turn at the window. I have absolutely no idea what "service" that dog was providing the woman but I observed she was incredibly bitchy (the woman, not the dog) with the DMV person who came over to her and asked if she could perhaps restrain her dog because the DMV person thought there was a chance the dog could get stepped on as it was running around behind people. I heard the woman snap, "She's a service dog and I don't have to restrain her!"

SteveMartin
10-22-2014, 04:36 AM
Thank you Nikara!

Disneyphile
10-22-2014, 10:05 AM
Untrained service animals can be classified as an Emotional Support Animal (ESA).

http://www.servicedogtags.com/emotional-support-animals/

I can see where this can be very easily abused...

And, here's more info about service dogs in general: http://www.servicedogtags.com/service-dogs/

I met a service dog this morning at Jamba Juice, identified only by one of these tags on his leash: http://www.servicedogtag.com/metal-service-dog-tags/

He barked at me, then playfully pawed my leg, begging to be scratched. I found it strange that a service dog would behave in such a manner.

AVP
10-22-2014, 10:15 AM
I'm extremely opinionated on this matter, just to warn everyone in advance. I think there is absolutely a place for service animals at Disneyland. I don't think there is a place for people to slap a vest on their pet and call it a service dog because they can't bear to leave Fluffy at home.


Untrained service animals can be classified as an Emotional Support Animal (ESA).

http://www.servicedogtags.com/emotional-support-animals/

I can see where this can be very easily abused...I would be hesitant to put much stock in the opinion of a site that SELLS identification tags for people to put on their pets to try to pass them off as emotional support animals. They may have a bit of a bias...

Still, one thing they did accurately state is that, for the very limited areas in which an ESA is a protected creature, you are generally required to have a current note from your doctor to support your need for the animal. Still, they do NOT have to be treated by businesses as service dogs.

I wish Disney would in fact do more to challenge people who slap a vest on their pet and bring it into the parks. It isn't good for the dogs, and it isn't good for the perception of legitimate service dogs.

Adrienne

SteveMartin
10-22-2014, 10:39 AM
Agreed, I'd like to see some form of proof/challenge when someone brings a service animal to a business. I think there are *some* abuses happening and I could see it getting out of hand easily.

adriennek
10-22-2014, 10:50 AM
I wish Disney would in fact do more to challenge people who slap a vest on their pet and bring it into the parks. It isn't good for the dogs, and it isn't good for the perception of legitimate service dogs.

And the more businesses stand up to the poor behavior as others have described in this thread, the easier it will be for all businesses to stand up to the bullying tactics of the fake service dog "handlers".

Drince88
10-22-2014, 11:20 AM
But Emotional Support Animals don't have to be allowed in Disneyland or Jamba Juice.

Disneyphile
10-22-2014, 12:20 PM
I think there is absolutely a place for service animals at Disneyland. I don't think there is a place for people to slap a vest on their pet and call it a service dog because they can't bear to leave Fluffy at home.Totally.

Malcon10t
10-22-2014, 05:52 PM
Untrained service animals can be classified as an Emotional Support Animal (ESA).

http://www.servicedogtags.com/emotional-support-animals/I was not going to respond, simply because the second poster answered the question and because a few of you know I tend to go off on this subject. Having trained (or helped MDM train) 9 service dogs, there is a lot of work involved in a service dog.

The above link verbiage is not supported by the DOJ rules regarding Service dogs. In fact, it is ruled "Dogs whose sole function is “the provision of emotional support, well-being, comfort, or companionship” are not considered service dogs under the ADA."

Fake service dogs hurt real service dogs. Their behavior makes business owners do double takes on real SDs. The bigger problem? Most fake service dogs aren't owned by a DISABLED person. Anyone can have a "service dog", but ACCESS is granted to the disabled person to allow them to use their SD. Access is not given to the dog. MDM has a Hearing dog due to her hearing loss. Her dog is a service dog. *I* cannot take her dog to store, restaurant, or Disneyland. *I* don't have access. *I* am not disabled.

You can usually spot a fake SD by its behavior. GENERALLY, MDM's dog is "seen and not heard". Most here who have met her, will say she is usually fairly well behaved (and can coax even introverts under a restaurant table.) We did have one incident where she decided she wanted cstephens and The Husband to pet her, and went a little nuts in front of Disneyana, which made all of us comment about :This isn't like her:....

candles71
10-22-2014, 06:18 PM
Mal, where would we find the information on how the law reads? We have an issue locally, part of which is unclear who the animal is supposed to be for.

Malcon10t
10-22-2014, 07:34 PM
Mal, where would we find the information on how the law reads? We have an issue locally, part of which is unclear who the animal is supposed to be for.
http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

This is a good place to start. Now, if the dog is for a child or a severely disabled person, the parent or caregiver can be a facilitator, and be the handler, but cannot take the dog out solo. Even certain facility dogs (therapy kind of) can have access while with a patient.

candles71
10-22-2014, 07:44 PM
Thanks, that answered some questions. Not a child, rather different answers given as to which spouse the animal is needed for.

Malcon10t
10-22-2014, 07:50 PM
Thanks, that answered some questions. Not a child, rather different answers given as to which spouse the animal is needed for.
Interesting. I could see a facilitator if one spouse was disabled enough they couldn't handle the dog by themselves, but even so, the facilitator couldn't have public access by themselves (not talking in their house, but Facilitator couldn't take the dog to the mall without the disabled spouse.)

Disneyphile
10-23-2014, 08:41 AM
Fake service dogs hurt real service dogs. Their behavior makes business owners do double takes on real SDs. The bigger problem? Most fake service dogs aren't owned by a DISABLED person.
I certainly can see this being an issue. The "service dog" at the Jamba Juice barely paid any attention to its owner and seemed more interested in trying to beg from others. I wonder if it was just a pet and he chose to buy the leash tags to confuse businesses.

Most SDs I've met are very calm and quiet and focused on their owners and immediate environment, rather than other people. And, they are usually well-marked with a vest and tags.

bumblebeeonarose
10-24-2014, 08:32 PM
Thanks for that information Malcon10t. I've wondered recently about "comfort animals" as I seem to see a lot more small pets in public places like grocery stores. I suppose that Disney and other business just don't want to make a fuss about it. Businesses and employees also may not really know the rules, and no one wants to offend someone with a disability and get in trouble.

leota's necklace
10-26-2014, 10:03 AM
Definitely hit the ADA site hosted by the gov if you have questions. There is no national registry for service animals and a vest or a card does not guarantee the animal is a service animal. There is a huge industry out there that capitalizes on ignorance of the law to sell registrations, cards, badges and vests, so please be very careful where you get your info from.

Disneyphile
10-27-2014, 09:40 AM
There is a huge industry out there that capitalizes on ignorance of the law to sell registrations, cards, badges and vests, so please be very careful where you get your info from.Like that online store site I mentioned. It saddens me to think they are selling stuff for profit that might get people in trouble or cause them stress.

adriennek
10-27-2014, 09:46 AM
Thanks for that information Malcon10t. I've wondered recently about "comfort animals" as I seem to see a lot more small pets in public places like grocery stores. I suppose that Disney and other business just don't want to make a fuss about it. Businesses and employees also may not really know the rules, and no one wants to offend someone with a disability and get in trouble.


a vest or a card does not guarantee the animal is a service animal.

Yep. I saw one of these at DCA this weekend. In line, inside a restaurant queue.

Unless long-hair dachshunds are being trained for some service that I am not aware of. I don't want to unfairly target legitimately trained dogs. I really don't. But all this abuse makes me suspicious of dogs that just don't seem right...

katiesue
10-27-2014, 09:56 AM
I'm allergic and while it's not a phobia I'm very wary of dogs. I've been bitten a great number of times. Every time by a dog that "has never bitten anyone". I know true service dogs who are trained this isn't an issue with. The rest of the ones people are hauling around I don't really trust. And a Chihuahua bite hurts just as much as a retriever in my experience.

I work part time at a retail store. We get people with dogs daily. Most don't even pretend they are service animals. The other day an older lady came in with a doberman (had vest) that was gigantic. It's back was up to my waist. She also had two choke collars on it. That to me says there may be problems controlling the dog. The dog did behave perfectly fine but it made me nervous.

There is also quite a bit of discussion in the diabetic community about diabetic alert dogs. If properly trained they are useful animals to some people. But there are also places that train/sell the dogs to families at 20K a pop. Often it's up to the families to train them and many just have no idea how much work they are in for. The companies send out Trainers every few months and if they feel the family isn't doing a good job will repossess the dogs. Leaving the family out a great deal of money. Obviously some of these are just scams but it's sad for the families that truly think it will help them and they end up with nothing.

candles71
10-27-2014, 10:20 AM
There is a company, up this way, under investigation for not actually training the dog to do what they said it would. Several complaints, from what I understand, but one family has filed a lawsuit, which is how it hit the local news.
I am all for service animals, they provide a nessesary service, when properly trained. I was quite impressed earlier this year, with the story of the service dog that was used in the surgical room for the little boy. His dog was to sense his seizures (iirc) and was able to alert to surgical team before they became an issue.

Malcon10t
10-27-2014, 11:41 AM
The organization we work with provides the dogs to the handlers FREE of charge. They are specifically bred for being a service dog. About 50% of the dogs do not make it as a service dog. Those dogs are guaranteed a forever home. The organization owns the dog for life. If you do not properly care for the pup, it can be repossessed. I know of 2 cases. In one, the human felt it was fine to allow the dog to run off leash. "He was well trained." They worked with the handler for over a year before repossessing the pup. There was a major uproar in the Colorado area when the dog was taken back. But it needed to be for its safety. In a case we were involved in, we were called to help repossess a puppy who was not being trained. We accompanied a trainer to pick up and evaluate the dog. 10 mos old, puppy wasn't even sitting yet. She didn't know here, and she had a LOT of "bad habits". (Prior handlers child taught her "keep away", which was a nightmare.) First night with us she stole a grapefruit and bit MDM. We kept her longer than the average CCI dog, since we were starting her off not at zero, but at about -20. SHe did graduate and is an AWESOME facility dog working with orthopedically impaired children.

In our organization, puppy raising begins before birth. We have a vet who is FANTASTIC at pairing parents. The breeding process is very scientific. They have the full linage of each dog. She will also pair a female and 2 males if one of the males is new to breeding, so they are sure to make puppies!

Once the pups are born, they begin at birth clipping their nails and putting "collars" on them so they get used to them. Newborns will wear a yarn string collar with the color of their birth order. Once their hearing begins, they start with soft sounds, and graduate to hearing CDs of fireworks, trains, trucks, and other louder noises to condition them to the sounds. Nails get clipped every couple days to get them used to being handled. Every pup is handled by the breeder caretaker daily. When they reach a few weeks of age and are mobile, they have play areas that would make any toddler drool, complete with stuffies, baby slides, tunnels, mobiles, etc... Mobiles are used A LOT to teach a puppy to look UP, where its human will be. At 8 weeks, they are taken to Canine Companions Santa Rosa facility, and placed within a couple days with a puppy raiser.

Once with a puppy raiser, we work with them teaching how to behave in a house, how to behave in a car, how to sit in the house, in a store, in the backyard, etc... Just because they learn a command in one area, doesn't mean it will carry over to another! (Example, we had a pup MDM was teaching "Here" to. Here means come to me and sit. She had been working with him, and he was doing GREAT. She was either sitting on the floor by the couch or on the couch. Later in the evening, she went to her room and called him with a "Here"... No puppy. "Here!!" No puppy. Go back down the hall, there is puppy sitting in front of the couch waiting for her!) We have the puppies for 18 mos. By the time we return them to CCI, they know how to behave in public, in the house, and they have about 40 commands that will be used as starting points to progress to more complex commands. (We teach "UP" which means put your front paws up on a wall. They change this to "Light" which means put your feet on the wall and push the light switch up with your nose.)

Back at CCI, they train for 6-9 mos before being matched with a human. Once they are matched, they spend 2 weeks working with trainers 8-10 hours a day. CCI provides dorms for the families to stay in during this period.

It is a lot of work. For both the humans and the pups involved.

cstephens
10-27-2014, 11:48 AM
Later in the evening, she went to her room and called him with a "Here"... No puppy. "Here!!" No puppy. Go back down the hall, there is puppy sitting in front of the couch waiting for her!)

This makes me laugh because I can imagine the slight annoyance that MDM must have felt when no puppy appeared and then her probably being amused when she saw where the puppy was actually sitting.

leota's necklace
10-27-2014, 12:43 PM
I love MDM training stories!




Unless long-hair dachshunds are being trained for some service that I am not aware of. I don't want to unfairly target legitimately trained dogs. I really don't. But all this abuse makes me suspicious of dogs that just don't seem right...

Don't discount service animals by breed -- the dog could have been an alert dog (seizure, diabetes, etc.), or a hearing dog. I'd be more suspicious of a rowdy golden retriever with a vest on than I would of a quiet, well controlled Papillon that was alert to its handler.