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LSPoorEeyorick
10-13-2003, 09:36 PM
There was a blurb on the KTLA WB news at 10 this evening about Screamin' getting stuck at the top. All passengers were apparently lowered safely. The news reported that the ride would be closed for inspections.

Is it still closed? Does this happen frequently? Was anybody there?

DisneyFan25863
10-13-2003, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by LSPoorEeyorick
There was a blurb on the KTLA WB news at 10 this evening about Screamin' getting stuck at the top. All passengers were apparently lowered safely. The news reported that the ride would be closed for inspections.

Is it still closed? Does this happen frequently? Was anybody there?


Stuck at the top? You mean of the lift? Ya, it does. It happens. I've been on it before when it happens. It has a tendency to break down. But they never really "investigate" it.




EDIT: Nevermind, I see you changed the title ;)

Disneyfreak
10-13-2003, 09:46 PM
All the more proof that they do a poor job on maintenance.:(
This really upsets me to think that they have reduced to this. You would think they would get more workers and do a better job maintaining the rides. Instead of running them into the ground and then fixing it, they need to do it every so often, this is what they are not looking at. Whats sad is that a first grader would know that.:D

Ghoulish Delight
10-13-2003, 10:37 PM
There is no PROOF of anything having to do with maintanance AT ALL.

The ride goes 101 (full stop, remove the riders) if the computer senses anything wrong. That includes the particularly intricate magnetic launch system (of which the ride has 2, no less), any of the certainly hundreds of sensors on the track, the station control systems.

The only thing this "proves" is that the countless safeguards and backups designed to avoid a disaster work properly.

innerSpaceman
10-14-2003, 06:49 AM
While I appreciate your restraint, G.D. (and that's not a coaster joke), I hardly think we can refer to an attraction as "working properly" when it has had several incidents of e-stopping partway through the ride.

That's not to say your point of the e-stop system functioning was not correct. But the bigger picture is that the ride is just not working properly. If an e-stop is warranted on several occassions, then there is something wrong that must be fixed. If the e-stop system is itself not working properly, then it must be fixed. Either way, you have an attraction that is demonstrating to the guests that, in one way or another, something is not working right. And you don't want that on a roller coaster.

justagrrl
10-14-2003, 07:10 AM
Exactly - the check engine light on my car comes on and then goes off for a bit - then comes back on. The car still runs though. The smart thing to do is figure out what is making that light come on and get it fixed so it stops happening before something really bad happens to the car and it won't run at all.

There's also the public perception of things not working right. As I said before, the things I saw on the sunwheel - that were clearly maintenance issues and seemed fairly easy to fix, should be fixed right away. It gives the perception that maintenance isn't top notch and that makes me uneasy when I put the lives of my family on the line for a ride.

CoasterMatt
10-14-2003, 07:20 AM
The only thing wrong is that Disney decided to have Intamin AG build the ride, then cheaped out on several components (the most notorious being, building a LSM launch that is expected to run at very high capacity, but not putting in adequate cooling)

timl33
10-14-2003, 07:59 AM
There IS one exception to this. If the ride operators screwed something up, then the e-stop would be triggered, through no fault of the ride.


Originally posted by innerSpaceman
But the bigger picture is that the ride is just not working properly. If an e-stop is warranted on several occassions, then there is something wrong that must be fixed. If the e-stop system is itself not working properly, then it must be fixed. Either way, you have an attraction that is demonstrating to the guests that, in one way or another, something is not working right. And you don't want that on a roller coaster.

Ghoulish Delight
10-14-2003, 08:38 AM
Ever read your cars owners manual? The check engine light most likely comes on because you didn't tighten your gas cap completely. I'm not kidding, it has to do with pressure in the fuel system and a measurement the engine takes to determine fuel efficiency. So an e-stop is no more "proof" that a ride is ill-maintained than a check engine light is "proof" that anything is wrong with your engine

My point is that it could be anything. It could be that the magnetic launch system is incredibly touchy and sends out an e-stop signal at the slightest of disturbances. That would have nothing to do with poor maintanance. That would be a design flaw. As a matter of fact, considering the fact that at least half the time I'm in DCA, I walk past Screamin' and see a gaggle of maintanance crew congreagating around the launch area, I'd say that Screamin' is the most highly maintained ride at the resort! Buggy as all heck, perhaps, but maintained. Design flaws are not a reflection on maintanance practices. I'm not saying continual e-stops aren't a sign that something is wrong, I just take exception to a comment that e-stops are "proof" of poor maintanance.
Total sepcious reasoning.

Ooh, I missed coaster Matt's post. Good point. The ride may trigger an e-stop any time the LIMs get too hot. And on a day like Sunday where it was in the 80s+, that sounds pretty plausible.

RStar
10-14-2003, 12:27 PM
But your point, GD, that the e-stop does not point to lack of maintenance is still sound if the problem is a design issue. While still linked, they are two different issues. Poor quality can lead to maintenance problems. The screamin' rollercoaster was not (according to Al) designed for year round, full time use and to only splash the LIMM with water waves and misters sounds like poor quality to me.

Disneyfreak
10-14-2003, 10:22 PM
Well then it is a maintaining problem then because if it needs to be redesigned then redesign it. Next refurb they need to install a cooling system for the lims. This is a stupid move on disney for not installing them and any idiot would have known that the lims would overheat. I swear we have total idiots running the place.:rolleyes:

Ghoulish Delight
10-14-2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by Disneyfreak
This is a stupid move on disney for not installing them and any idiot would have known that the lims would overheat. I swear we have total idiots running the place.:rolleyes: Umm Disney didn't design, build, or install the ride. They purchased it from a coaster design company (Intamin). Any redesign or replacement of parts would have to be worked out between Disney and that company.

justagrrl
10-15-2003, 07:29 AM
Okay then - stupid move for whoever it was that was responsible for the LIMS overheating all the time (if that is, indeed, that cause.) And why isn't it fixed? Is there no solution and that's just the way it's going to be for the life of the ride?

Rides going down all the time, for whatever reason, does not leave the public going "wow". It leaves them thinking that the ride is breaking alot and that causes doubt.

CoasterMatt
10-15-2003, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by Ghoulish Delight
Umm Disney didn't design, build, or install the ride. They purchased it from a coaster design company (Intamin). Any redesign or replacement of parts would have to be worked out between Disney and that company.

But Disney did make requests of Intamin to lower the cost of the attraction, requests that directly effect it's reliability and ride capacity. Intamin delivered exactly what Disney ordered, and now Disney can choke on it...

Ghoulish Delight
10-15-2003, 09:40 AM
I'm saying nothing is wrong. I'm not saying it wasn't poorly designed. I'm not saying the ride isn't up to the task it was designed for. I am simply disputing one sentenc. "All the more proof that they do a poor job on maintenance." There is no proof of anything relating to maintenance.

innerSpaceman
10-15-2003, 10:05 AM
Well, GD, I guess the difference between you and nearly everyone else who has posted in this thread is that you are taking a very narrow definition of "maintenance." You may be literally correct, but I think you are a bit obstinately refusing to see the wider picture that failure to correct a design defect that effects a potentially dangerous rollercoaster is de facto poor maintenance.

I think it's best to consider the particular circumstance rather than the dictionary definition of the word "maintenance." If a design defect affecting the boats on It's a Small World were not corrected, I don't think it would be necessarily considered poor maintenance. But no one is going to drown as a result of anything that goes wrong on that ride. And so the "design defect" is not going to scare riders away. The situation with a design defect on a rollercoaster is completely different. And maintaining that type of ride properly includes fixing the design defect, and fixing it pronto.

Ghoulish Delight
10-15-2003, 10:11 AM
But if we're talking from a business standpoint, semantics matter. Because "maintanance" is an entirely different budget, management, department, staff, etc. than ride design and purchase. And it's a department that's been much maligned recently (perhaps deservedly). This isn't something to be pinned on them.

And in case you missed it...

"I'm [not] saying nothing is wrong. I'm not saying it wasn't poorly designed. I'm not saying the ride isn't [not] up to the task it was designed for."

CoasterMatt
10-15-2003, 10:25 AM
I for the most part, agree with GD on this topic. I think what GD is getting at, that the problems with Screamin' point to issues at the executive decision level, which are key to many maintenance issues that may arise...

If executives make poor decisions, maintenance can't properly do it's job

Ghoulish Delight
10-15-2003, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by CoasterMatt
I for the most part, agree with GD on this topic. I think what GD is getting at, that the problems with Screamin' point to issues at the executive decision level, which are key to many maintenance issues that may arise...

If executives make poor decisions, maintenance can't properly do it's job No, that's NOT what I'm saying.

Maintenance's job is to maintain a ride to its operating spec. If those operating specs are faulty, then even if they are the best maintanance crew in history, there's nothing they can do. The maintanance department does not have the power to add a cooling system to the LIMs. They can be doing the best job in the world, but if it's designed wrong, it still won't work.

Now, you can call the decission to fix or not fix a design "maintanance" if you want, but that decission does not fall under the maintanance department.

CoasterMatt
10-15-2003, 10:34 AM
See, I said it's a design issue, not a maintenance issue...

Screamin' already takes a LOT of time and money from maintenance, yet it's issues are unresolved to date.

justagrrl
10-15-2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by Ghoulish Delight

Now, you can call the decission to fix or not fix a design "maintanance" if you want, but that decission does not fall under the maintanance department.

Okay - when a ride goes down and the public sees that it's down what do they think? I would generalize and say they think "it's broken".

Now, when that happens several times a day, day after day, the public perception is that it's breaking down alot. Is that the sort of thing you want your customers to think of when they put their children on said ride? It doesn't instill a lot of confidence.

And when it happens on one ride, my confidence wanes about other rides too. After all, if this ride breaks all the time, and nothing is done to stop that, what else is going on that's not so apparent to everyone walking by?

Ghoulish Delight
10-15-2003, 10:50 AM
Is that the sort of thing you want your customers to think of when they put their children on said ride?Good lord, do I have to say it again!!

"I'm [not] saying nothing is wrong. I'm not saying it wasn't poorly designed. I'm not saying the ride isn't [not] up to the task it was designed for."

Something needs to be fixed. But there is no evidence to blame maintanance. Don't say that "maintenance can't properly do it's job." And I'm not talking about some broad definition of maintanance. I'm talking about the very sepcific Disney maintanance department of men and women who are out every day working on those stupid LIMs keeping them running as best as they possibly can. I'm sure they too desparately wish Disney would shell out the bucks to get the problem fixed once and for all. But beyond pointing out the design flaw (which I'm sure they have. If we know, the suits know), they can't do anything about it. Not only are they not LIM manufacturers with enough expertise to make design changes to a highly complex system, but Intamin would probably sue the pants off of them for tampering with their design.

And just in case it's not crystal clear, let me say it one more time. I'm not happy with the way things are. I am not excusing multiple, highly visible 101s. But I AM in favor of assigning the blame in the right place. I AM in favor of people knowing the facts.

CoasterMatt
10-15-2003, 11:24 AM
maintenance's job is to keep attractions operating, if executives make decisions that bring poorly designed attractions in, a maintenance team can't properly do it's job. In Screamin' s case, maintenance has done an exemplary job working with what they have to work with.

Polar33
10-15-2003, 12:24 PM
Has anyone stopped to think that there might have been a non-technical issue that caused the e-stop? It could have been anything from someone's hat flying off and landing on the track, to a backup at the station, it could have been someone wandering into an area or they shouldn't have been or doing something unsafe while on the ride.

While it's true that most people assume that when something is 101 it is due to something mechanical, most of the time it is one of the above.

NirvanaMan
10-15-2003, 12:47 PM
GD - Ha ha...vein in your head throbbing yet? :p I see exactly what you are saying and I do agree. GD is not saying that it isn't bad, or that there was not a design flaw, he is simply saying that the problem is not due to poor maintenence.

:fez: