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View Full Version : Big Thunder Mountain Railroad Accident - Your Views



ZipadeedooDave
10-13-2003, 10:50 AM
My wife and I were at Disneyland this past Friday, October 10 -- we went for dinner and a few rides after work. It was quite relaxing....

As we walked from our adventure on "The Casey Junior", we walked throught the Big Thunder Trail....and thought it was so sad that it was so quiet.

We discussed the accident. We've both read a multitude of reviews and views on this from the press. Our biggest conclusion is that "It was an accident." No one wants and accident....and an accident is not something that is planned. Aside of Michael Eisner's insincere speech on the news, this was an accident. (Did I mention Michael Eisner's insincere speech complete with a lie and everything?).

Yeah, Disneyland will be liable, but again, it was an accident.

What are your views??

Nephythys
10-13-2003, 11:34 AM
First off let me say that I am so jealous of you for being so close to DL I am throughly green.

I am not concerned about this too much. I feel horrible for the young man who died, and I admit to feeling somewhat queasy when I think of all the times my little girl and I rode BTMRR in the front car this July.

But......

Disney has an excellent track record, and the majority of the accidents/deaths/injuries have been the guests fault. Since I do not behave in stupid ways on the rides and neither do my children, I am not overly concerned.

I am looking forward to the final report. I want to know what happened.

I trust DL to make the correct repairs and/or refurbishments to prevent this from happening again. However, when you run an attraction like that year round, with that volume of people, and you're hurtling at that speed around that track, an accident is likely to happen eventually. I think they take care to prevent it, but this was nothing more than an unfortunate accident in my opinion.

I do think that Disney will end up being liable in some way, but I do not think they are cutting back on maintenance and making the park dangerous in order to add to their bottom line.

ZipadeedooDave
10-13-2003, 11:42 AM
Interestingly, I always request that we sit in seats 15, 14, or 13 on this ride...

My view is just as yours Neph. I feel that this was an accident....it's just too darn bad that it happened on my favorite ride. I love this ride! So, I know they will take necessary measures to 'cure' the problem.

Did you happen to hear or read Michael Eisner's statement? He stated that he left his office to come down especially to console the victims of this accident.

The sad thing about his statement? He'd actually had a reservation at Grand Californian for a while and was already there for the "Primetime" weekend festivities. So, while he may have felt bad for the victims and families, he, in fact, wasn't there especially for them!

Put a "Disney" back in the 'throne' that Michael Eisner currently inhabits!

Morrigoon
10-13-2003, 01:18 PM
I've already been attacked for my views on this incident on another board. I'm not starting that up again because I cannot publicly repeat the evidence to back up my conclusion.

It was an accident in that nobody intended for it to happen, yes. Just as nobody intends to have a head-on collision when they're doing 85 while talking on a cell phone.

And that's all I have to say about that.

ZipadeedooDave
10-13-2003, 01:52 PM
Point well stated. Foolishness, as I think you are stating, sometimes brings on 'unforseen accidents'.

Good point, indeed.

fairytalelover
10-13-2003, 02:01 PM
The oddest thing happened to me and GWS on Sunday. He collects the pressed pennies and quarters. So we were in that western type store (I forgot the name, but it's across from the shooting gallery) and he noticed that there is a pressed penny machine for Big Thunder RR. He put his money in the slots and pushed it in and thought wouldn't it be funny if the coins derailed going down and , they DID.
I know the derailment is not at all funny. But, we just found it odd that this particular machine broke. Kind of a twilight zoney thing.:eek:

Disneyphile
10-13-2003, 02:34 PM
Is it a sign that the BTMRR accident could have been foreseen and prevented if someone bought a pressed penny that day??

There surely must be a connection! :eek:

fairytalelover
10-13-2003, 02:44 PM
That's what we thought!!:eek:
LOL!!!!!:D

Freerider127
10-13-2003, 03:30 PM
I was there also on saturday and walked through there, it was extremely quiet . I love Big Thunder and hope they can fix the problem and open it up and get rid of the negative publicity.

Pat-n-Eil
10-14-2003, 10:35 AM
There are always many sides to a story. Sometimes some unforeseen events are manifested by an action that creates a domino effect. Anybody watching CSI or any of the forensic shows knows that you must follow the evidence and not pre-formulate an opinion.

I only know bits & pieces that may or may not be related.

The piece that holds the rear wheels broke. The effect was that the rear end of the locomotive hit the tunnel and the first train car went under it causing the death of the guest and other injuries.

The operators heard something like a clicking or mechanical noise that wasn't normal and were going to pull the train off at the next station entry.

Maintenance has been reduced at the parks.

Three pieces of information that may be related - and then they may not be related.

Does reduced park maintenance at the park necessarily mean that GTMRR had a reduced maintenance schedule?

Would anyone feel better if they learned that they had actually continue the same maintenance schedule for the ride that day or week as they had always had?

Was there any way to know this piece was at risk to fail? Did any maintenance history indicate this to be an item requiring an increased replacement schedule?

----------------------------

I still think this was an accident, plain and simple. I don't think there is any tangible proof of negligence, be it due to cost cutting or lack of dilligence on Disney's part.

Speculation may or may not be appropriate - that's not my call. But I think we should be careful before making unfounded accusations or coming to conclusions without all of the facts at hand.

ZipadeedooDave
10-14-2003, 11:54 AM
I agree with your statements.
I don't think Disney was lax in their maintenance....it's been clearly stated that while that train was 'out' they heard the noises...and maintenance, safety minded people wouldn't think to bring that train in -- and we know that they stated they were....so intentions were correct.

You state that this was an accident. Great statement, as I agree and stated that wholeheartedly.

Interesting views by all. We mustn't jump to conclusions on anything.....rumors get started, etc. It's just crazy.

And frankly, who's to say that the Papers are reporting correctly anyway? I say that because my Uncle was in a newpaper article recently. He's a police officer and it was stated that "he was in a shootout" in Yorba Linda. Well, that was untrue. I won't get into it, but the Orange County Register misrepresented my uncle (was not named in the piece - thank God) and the whole situation. It was NOT a shootout. There was a guy disrupting the peace in the early morning one day last week....they were called to the scene....the guy fled....they chased him, he fought, they taser gunned him, they cuffed him, he fought more, they tasered him again.....and shortly there after he was dead.

The press won't run the story that the coroner ruled out the taser gun as not being the reason for death. They probably won't run the fact that they guy was on a 7-day methamphetamine binge and had an enlarged heart -- direct info from the criminal's father, in fact.

My point being....the news misrepresents constantly....who's to say they haven't misrep'd Disney as well?

My condolences, regardless, are expressed to the family of the young man that passed on BTMRR.

merlinjones
10-14-2003, 01:24 PM
Throw 'em all in prison with Br'er Bear as a cellmate... not the maintenence guys, the executives.

Doodle Duck
10-14-2003, 01:44 PM
MY take:


Open the damn ride. Move on.

ZipadeedooDave
10-14-2003, 01:47 PM
Ouch!
I'd like to know that they found the reason for the accident before they start running my favorite attraction again.

I love Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, but I'd feel better, as would the public, knowing that the cause of the accident had been fixed.

So far, I've heard nothing like that anywhere.
:eek:

cstephens
10-14-2003, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by Doodle Duck
MY take:


Open the damn ride. Move on.

Are you directing this at Disney or others? Cause at this point, I'm thinking Disney has no say in the matter.

Doodle Duck
10-14-2003, 03:01 PM
I'm directing an answer to the questioner who asked for a 'take' That's my take....mostly stems from dissinterest in the associated hoohah I reckon. Who is ANYONE talking to on these boards? What's the diff if someone 'jumps to a conclusion' here? So what.

Get it over with say's I...
Get the ride mfg...re-engineer if necessary and open the ride just like you would if it was a new ride...or a re-built ride. All these outside posturing endless opinions of state agencies and politicians and whomever mean nothing. Build the ride...ride the ride....accident occurs, re-build the ride or remove the ride. Ride breaks...Buy a new ride. Move on.


Obviously everyone is lucky I'm not in charge! :-)

:fez:

ZipadeedooDave
10-14-2003, 03:08 PM
Well, if that was your idea, sometimes we need a "no nonsense person" in charge. I agree.....we need to get this whole thing concluded and move on.

newhdplayer
10-14-2003, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by Doodle Duck
MY take:


Open the damn ride. Move on.

One more thing to add. There was so much "sorrow and sympathy" expressed (all well-felt and well-meant), but here is what I find irritating.

Thousands of people die here in the US of A every day, but since there is no public exposure, (unlike these spectacular mishaps in a very well known place) nobody gives a rat's ... about them.

But as soon as it's on TV, and makes the front page and the Enquirer...the rules change.

disneyboy7
10-15-2003, 09:30 AM
I view riding attractions the same as I do driving or alpine skiing.
It may be hazardous to your health.
Passports clearly state "Each guest assumes the inherent risk associated with the operation of all rides and attractions."
I still feel safer at Disneyland than I do on the freeway or skiing at Heavenly Valley on a busy weekend.
I think it's TV shows like CSI that make us believe investigations only take 3 days to a week to complete, when the fact is it takes much longer. I want it up and running as soon as the problem has been identified, fixed or re-engineered, and identified and documented for the CMs and maintenance to recognize to avoid a future derailment.