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Sailor Butterfly
10-09-2003, 05:25 AM
http://www.miceage.com/kevinyee/ky100903a.htm

To be quite honest, I can't really disagree that the price of APs should be increased dramatically. $1000 seems a bit harsh, especially considering the current dearth of attractions and entertainment options that would make it worth the price, but I could definitely see $500. When Eisner first came on the scene, didn't he decide that theme park day passes were dramatically underpriced? I could see the argument that APs are equally underpriced now. On the other hand, they definitely would have to install a turnstyle outside of City Hall to handle the complaints from all the disgruntled soon-to-be-ex AP holders!

Freerider127
10-09-2003, 06:12 AM
look at the park now nothing really is open and 225$ is alot of money. I dont really think it should go up because the AP for WDW is 500$ and look how much they have. 1000$ for an annual pass is just plain absurd. There is not many attractions open now and 225$ is a fair price but once you start getting higher its crazy. Maybe they should just lower the daily admission but thats never going to happen.

Doodle Duck
10-09-2003, 06:23 AM
I would love to be a 'fly' in Kevin Yee's eMail bin on this one!

I just don't see the Diz putting money back in the empty park (s) if this should occur.

This plan would cut us out for sure...which is the idea...but I'd be among the 'good APers who would just not go back without a complete overhaul of the place from shabby to spectacular.

My 'once a year' would be to WDW and the sad little 'regional park' (s) could stay a memory.


A thousand bucks for DL and $99 for DCA? Yeah..that'll happen.


While Kevin has some points on this one...it just takes us out of the mix....and Diz would be a drive by on hwy 5..."..gee...remember that place?"

Mickeyslittlehelper
10-09-2003, 07:02 AM
Yeah right!! $1000 for an AP!!! Even though I am not a local, I believe those prices are outrageous!! Sure, I can see an AP for maybe $700 that comes with some good discounts...... If they are seriously considering raising the prices, maybe they should get some new rides first ;) An AP for WDW is only $500?????

DBJ
10-09-2003, 07:17 AM
Why don't they just limit the days of the AP program? If they would permanently black out Fri, Sat, Sun and divert AP crowds to Mon- Thursday, that would help a bit. Then, people from out of town could enjoy a less crowded park for at least 3 days out of the week.

Or...

They also could do season passes, say an AP like program that's only good for the spring off season, say second weekend of Jan through May 1. Then, no annual pass for the busy summer season May 2nd to Labor day, then a fall pass for Sept., (post labor day through Nov. 20), and no pass available through the holidays.

spectromen
10-09-2003, 07:19 AM
Does anybody know how much annual passes to DL were in the 80s before all this craze? From what I remember they weren't even on the menu board; you had to go to guest relations off by the kennels to buy them and they were like $299 and very few people had them...that doesn't sound so bad to me.

EandCDad
10-09-2003, 07:21 AM
Just to clarify, in case someone jumps into this thread without reading the Miceage article. The article is not reporting that Disney is raising the AP prices or that they are even considering raising the AP prices (although they probably are considering it, I'm sure they consider it every year). It's more an Op Ed piece by Kevin on what he thinks the proper AP price should be. That's where the $1,000 per pass figure comes from. It's Kevin's number.

That said, I wouldn't pay $1,000, I wouldn't pay $500, I wouldn't pay much more than I pay now. I wouldn't even pay what I pay now if it weren't for the interest my family has in going. If they raise the prices too much, I'll be sorry that I can't give them that, but we'd just spend more time at the zoo and probably go back to getting Legoland passes. I also think the chance of them increasing the price of the AP to anything approaching $1,000 is pretty much nil.

Ghoulish Delight
10-09-2003, 07:29 AM
I LOVE when people aregue that Disney would make more money by raising AP prices, that APs are sucking money out of the resort.

The people running Disneyland know how to do one thing, and one thing only...work the "supply and demand" concept. They are geniouses at it. Produce just enough product and charge just the right ammount to obtain the perfect balance. Guess what, if they could make a higher profit by raising AP prices, they would. They certainly have a lot more actual data, instead of assumptions and guestimates, than Kevin Yee does. Somehow I trust the greedy businessmen to come up with the highest profit solution over Kevin Yee. It's the ONE thing I trust the greedy businessmen with.

Pat-n-Eil
10-09-2003, 07:32 AM
The article completely disregards multi-day parkhopper tickets in his argument and goes right to the $47 single day scenario. I have never purchased a single day ticket in the past 8 years of annual visits to the park. I always get at least a 3 day ticket - and this year I've got a 5 day one.

I don't always stay at a Disney property, though this year I am.

I think he makes some valid points, and I do think the Annual Pass should be much higher for both the overcrowding aesthetic reasons as well as the infrastructure straining reasons. I also believe his general premise that less AP visitors visiting less often would mean less maintenance costs and a general improvement to both the park infrastructure and the profit margin - but the bottom line question becomes this:

Would you be willing to visit the park less if it meant the Park would get better?

justagrrl
10-09-2003, 07:40 AM
I doubt we'll renew our passes next year anyway. We've been so much that - just as the article says - it's lost some of it's magic. I will be sorry I don't get to go on Tower of Terror until some later point... but right now I often feel like we are going more to make sure we make our passes "worth it" rather then spending the day there. Now that we are living farther away - an hour vs. 5 minutes, there aren't as many options.

When we first got our passes - Christmas 2 years ago - we went, literally, nearly everyday for a week. That tapered off a bit - but by the end of the year we were still going every now and then. This year, before the kids were off track this month, we'd been twice. And not for full days - but for just the evening.

I don't feel like we are getting our money out of it (even though we are So Cal passholders.)

Granted, I don't have to worry about getting in my favorite rides because I'm only going once a year - if that. We get to do things that I might not have had time for - but overall - I think we are bored with it. I know, I know - bored with Disneyland! But we've been there and done that over and over again. Nothing new to do or see... then again - maybe that's what they want. To take my money for the AP and then not have me ever come back (until renewal time). Then they get the best of both worlds.

cemeinke
10-09-2003, 07:44 AM
I doubt Disney would go to a $1000 price point for an AP - that's quite a jump, and quite a risk to take as they'd certainly have to weather a steep drop in the revenue the APs bring in.

Also, while Season tickets to sporting events or other venues may be at that price point, other theme and amusement parks have APs that are a lot lower - I think that's what Disney has to compare themselves with.

Disney these days is more about incrementalism than risk. I can see them raising prices. I'm certain they'd like to get back to the $299 price they wanted for the opening of DCA. I can also see them suspending the sale of lower tiered APs.

Nfatuated
10-09-2003, 07:54 AM
I think Kevin hits it right with one word....entitlement. I used to be an AP holder untill I moved to Vegas, and I can say their are alot of nasty AP holders who believe they are "entitled" to do as they please. I also think that the SO CAL pass needs to go. The hordes of teenagers at the park is overwhelming. Overall I agree with Kevin, I make two trips a year, and pay regular ticket admission. The park and its walkways are saturated with people. I am all for the thinning out of crowds, by eliminating the lower end AP's. That would be cutting out those that cant afford the premium you say? Well, nobody is "entitled to an AP if you cant afford it, then go once or twice a year. And just think Disneyland will be just that more magical for you. :)

SiRocket
10-09-2003, 07:55 AM
my take on this is to kill the two lower passes and start out with a premium...... but only to one park or another.... then be able to add stuff to your ap..... parking , extra discounts, another park (not to inflated of a price) etc. etc. sorta like a build a pin or print on demand...... they can even have a build a ticket shop :fez:

tod
10-09-2003, 08:20 AM
As much as we like to mock the suits and MBAs in That Big Yellow Building Out Back, they may have stumbled onto something. By which I mean they may be thinking of doing something I have been suggesting for years. Raising the prices of Annual Passports, or eliminating them altogether.

Let's face a fact: Low Annual Passport prices are killing Disneyland. (And by "low," I mean "5 x Day Pass" -- by visit #6 you're in profit.) Annual Passholders use Park facilities, but don't throw in $47 every time they do. Or parking. They add wear and tear -- the usual, I'm not suggesting vandalism or anything untoward -- but they don't contribute after visit #6.

Take a look here (http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19252&highlight=eliminate+annual) for more discussion on the AP-contribution front.

--T
bracing for the argument.
:fez:

millionairegirl
10-09-2003, 08:39 AM
I know this will never occur because it's not how the multi-gate resorts work, and there probably isn't even demand for it, but I would LOVE there to be two separate APs for the two parks.

And I would not buy the DL one, just the DCA one.

To me DL gets boring the more times you go, but DCA has a lot of places to just hang out. I'd rather go to DL one or two times a year to experience the 'magic' and soak in the atmosphere then to go monthly. It kind of loses the specialness when you can go whenever you want.

I'm sure there are people who don't want to pay for the DCA part too (Ahem, MerlinJones).

And yes, Tod you are right that they are severely underpriced right now. But until there are more ETickets at the resort, I would not pay more for my pass. I'm already considering not renewing!

cryan71
10-09-2003, 08:43 AM
I think an increase in an AP price is logical and getting rid of the lower level APs is a good idea. It would allow for less crowding, which would make the park better. As for the amount of money I spend when I go to the park, its pretty minimal at best. In fact, once I discovered that Millie's is walking distance as well as Tony Roma's, I really have no reason to eat at the Disneyland resort. I have also put an ice chest in the back of my car and I fill it with water and diet cokes (and maybe a refreshing adult beverage). A quick trip to the car for some water, and I am cool.

I have had APs at Universal and Magic Mountain. By the end of the AP, I was pretty much sick of those parks. My loyal friend Art wants me to get a Universal AP again.

My problem with the Disneyland Resort AP is that Kevin is right, its too much of a good thing. You almost feel obligated to go many times to get your money's worth. I now find myself not riding attractions and seeing anything that is new from minor bands to atmosphere talent a big deal. The magic is lost.

Not Afraid
10-09-2003, 08:49 AM
Fine. Charge me $1000 for a pass. I will go less and spend less money at the Park. In the long run, I will save. Yipee!

cemeinke
10-09-2003, 08:56 AM
I wonder about the "wear and tear" argument about APs. It seems those of us who really use our APs don't ride the attractions as much, stay out of long queues, and spend more time just sitting on benches or standing outside of restrooms. There may be more people, but they aren't neccesarily standing in line.

I'll grant Kevin, that I'm probably not a typical APer, but I think after you've done the attrations over and over again, there come a point when you're there more for the atmosphere (and socializing) than anything else. I think these would especially be true for those renewing their APs.

I probably wouldn't spend $1000 for an AP, but I might still hang out in the Grand Californian and get some wear and tear out of the lobby.;)

Wfoxx
10-09-2003, 09:23 AM
When we first bought our passes in the 80's it was only $35.00 then it as raised to $50.00. It included parking and was worth about 2 visits to the park at that time. It also included special events ( 3oth birthday and captain eo as well as discounts at the disneyland hotel, some food places big thunder ranch for one). I can't believe they would charge $1000 for an AP.

The price for one at WDW is $388 (according to passporter)

millionairegirl
10-09-2003, 09:41 AM
The thing that really rings true in Kevin's article is that the park is always so crowded, and it is mostly due to the large amount of AP holders in the park every day.

My anti-Disney fiance (but I love him anyway), hates when I drag him to the park because it is so crowded. I think the park would be much more enjoyable if they either banned the APs or increased the price dramatically. If you can't afford $1,000, then you could probably afford the $47 to go for one or two special days. And fiscally, I think the idea makes sense for TDA, but lets see if they are actually smart enough to implement it.

And we AP holders may not cause wear and tear on the attractions or the queues, but we still go to the bathroom, we still wear paint off of railings, we still tread on the pavement. I believe the cost of park upkeep would decrease dramatically if the number of AP holders decreased.

cryan71
10-09-2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by millionairegirl
And we AP holders may not cause wear and tear on the attractions or the queues, but we still go to the bathroom, we still wear paint off of railings, we still tread on the pavement. I believe the cost of park upkeep would decrease dramatically if the number of AP holders decreased.

Hey speak for yourself! I bring touchup paint, my own toilet paper, toilet brush and paper towels. As I am riding a ride, I perform preventative maintenence on the car I am riding as well as replacing burnt out light bulbs. I also carry a broom and sweep up any dust that follows me.

:)

jerhow
10-09-2003, 10:30 AM
If eliminating annual passes means adding E-Ticket attractions to both parks, then I'm all for it.

In other words, if Disney were to announce the elimination of it's Annual Passholder program, then to me it would need to also announce that as compensation for this change, it plans on making major investments into both parks to provide incentive to return.

Without a pass, my visit to Disneyland would be yearly + an additional trip per E-Ticket attraction built. Right now my visit to DCA is once per E-Ticket built. So when Tower opens, DCA will get my business, but there still isn't enough for me to do paying full price to justify another visit until they build another E-Ticket on top of that, and then another.

tracilicious
10-09-2003, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by millionairegirl

And I would not buy the DL one, just the DCA one.


you would probably be the only one doing so. when dca first opened they had the option of only buying a disneyland pass, or of buying a two park pass and they discontinued that because everyone was only buying the DL pass. they made it two park to raise attendance for DCA. if the passes were seperate, i would still visit DCA, but very rarely.

if disney wants to put a nail in its coffin they will eliminate AP's. If it wants to completely bury DCA then it will have a two separate passes.

Kevy Baby
10-09-2003, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by cemeinke
I wonder about the "wear and tear" argument about APs. It seems those of us who really use our APs don't ride the attractions as much, stay out of long queues, and spend more time just sitting on benches or standing outside of restrooms. I'm with you on how we utilize our pass, except I don't hang around outside the restrooms. What kind of weirdo are you? :)

Duane
10-09-2003, 11:25 AM
I feel confident that they will never remove the AP program but they do need to increase the cost. Currently, the AP's are getting a steal on the prices and do nothing but moan and groan about the parks. Hopefully, an increase in price will remove some of the complainers and reduce the attendance in the parks to a tolerable level. I spend several thousand dollars a year to visit Disney and would love to have smaller crowds during my time in the parks. If you don't like the current state of the Disneyland Resort, stay home and let the happy people enjoy the happiest place on earth! Six Flags will be glad to have the rest of you. Look at the facts: The majority of visitors in Disneyland are locals who are AP holders. Disney World caters to a majority who are from out of state visiting. Disney World in turn experiences more revenue and therefore is constantly adding new E-Rides. More AP's equals less revenue and a higher operating cost.