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hazlnut
09-24-2003, 02:17 PM
How many people, after having been disgusted by the treatment of the CM's at the POC movie premier, went out and saw the film anyway?

I did.

Question 2: How many people, after being disgusted and appalled by truths and revelations about safety in the wake of the Big Thunder “accident” still patronize the park and will renew their AP's anyway?

I don't think I will.

I guess we all know how and where the Disney clothes are manufactured, those Princess costumes our daughters wear, and still we turn a blind eye on the horrible situation by continuing to buy them.

Just some things I’ve been thinking about.

Nephythys
09-24-2003, 02:31 PM
#1- I have no idea what happened to the CM's at the premiere- I saw Pirates in Downtown Disney on the day it opened on July 8th I think it was. I would have seen it no matter what.

#2- I would- while I am sad about the death and "revelations" I take them all with a grain of salt and I see a very good safety record for many many years. Sure, there are things that need to be corrected but if I lived in CA, I would renew this year without question. I will continue to come anytime I can as well- no matter the distance-

#3- What horrible situation? Low wage shops in other countries that turn out the clothes?? Do you know that even if those are not perfect situations, those people are better off making that money in those circumstances than not? I have not heard horror stories of children in other countries dying to give my daughter her beloved "dreamin dresses"- and until I do I have no worries about this either.

Shall I turn my back on Disney because they are not perfect, not sainted? No- because I refuse to deny myself or my children than joy.

hazlnut
09-24-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by Nephythys
Shall I turn my back on Disney because they are not perfect, not sainted? No- because I refuse to deny myself or my children than joy.

I think that's pretty much how I feel too. Just thinking about it, weighing the issues. That's all.

[Mod. note: fixed vBcode around quoted material. -- Andrew]

Bill Catherall
09-24-2003, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by hazlnut
Question 2: How many people, after being disgusted and appalled by truths and revelations about safety in the wake of the Big Thunder “accident” still patronize the park and will renew their AP's anyway? Did I miss the announcement? Where are these "truths and revelations"?

hazlnut
09-24-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Bill Catherall
Did I miss the announcement? Where are these "truths and revelations"?

Al Lutz's recent articles have been eye-openers for me.

The national and local TV news, newspapers, also made me aware of some things I wasn't.

I didn't know, for instance, that the current maintainence staff for both parks is smaller than that of the staff for just DL ten years ago. That freaked me out.

merlinjones
09-24-2003, 03:46 PM
1) Pirates: The Disney Company treats most of their employees below the management level with disrespect and contempt. This has been going on for some years now and is no surprise to me. It will be the employees who have to finally say "enough" and break the bullying cycle (or blow the whistle). I paid to see the film at a bargain matinee. Shame on me.

2) Deferred maintenence: I dropped my annual pass a year ago in protest over Disneyland's current management.

3) Sweatshops: I bought a Snow White costume last Halloween at half price. Globalization has created this situation across the boord. I'm not sure there is anything we can do about it. But you shame me.

Now who has bought one of those crappy video sequels knowing they were helping to kill off the real Feature Animation division? I have never paid one red cent for one.

Traci
09-24-2003, 03:49 PM
I guess we all must remember that Disney isn't rich and powerful right now because they weren't saavy in their business ways.

Disneyphile
09-24-2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by merlinjones
Now who has bought one of those crappy video sequels knowing they were helping to kill off the real Feature Animation division? I have never paid one red cent for one.
Yeah, but you are going to buy "Mulan's Lucky Fortune Cookie Christmas" and "The Hunchback's Hanukkah" aren't you? I hear those are going to be irresistable! ;)

tracilicious
09-24-2003, 04:28 PM
I guess we all must remember that Disney isn't rich and powerful right now because they weren't saavy in their business ways.

i think disney is rich and powerful now because they are coasting along in the wake of what was once a great and powerful dream. that dream was great enough to create such a reputation that has lasted for generations. disney wasn't made famous by being a money mongering, budget cutting, low maintenance, sequel turning out company. that's just what a few people have turned it into. a great reputation can only last so long before it's completely ruined. if the disney company doesn't start pumping up the quality on all its products, it will soon find that the disney name means no more than, let's say, nabisco.

as for the topic...i haven't seen pirates yet, but i feel that it is a high quality product and i will gladly spend money to see it. i won't buy the sequels because they are crap. i still go to disneyland because i love it and i can't stay away. but it pains me to no end to see WDW getting one new attraction after another while disneyland sits neglected. basically i will pay for products that i feel are high quality.

~<:) tracilicious

hazlnut
09-24-2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by tracilicious
i still go to disneyland because i love it and i can't stay away. but it pains me to no end to see WDW getting one new attraction after another while disneyland sits neglected. basically i will pay for products that i feel are high quality.

Total agreement. Well said.

I sometime even end up buying the stuff I know is crap. More than sometimes. Why? Because it sparks my kids' imagination and creativity. Especially the toys, costumes, etc. from the Disney classics.

hazlnut
09-24-2003, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by merlinjones
Sweatshops: I bought a Snow White costume last Halloween at half price. Globalization has created this situation across the boord. I'm not sure there is anything we can do about it. But you shame me.

Guilty of that as well.

Shame on me too.

MonorailMan
09-24-2003, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by hazlnut
Question 2: How many people, after being disgusted and appalled by truths and revelations about safety in the wake of the Big Thunder “accident” still patronize the park and will renew their AP's anyway?


Howeve,r DIsney makes little money on our family, as APers. As many people on this board know, I, as well as the rest of our family, don't really like spending $8+ on a meal at Disneyland. I will spoil myself occationally. However, when I com down with my mom, and we either eat lunch in the car, or head ouside the park to eat, plus we spend a full Disney day, I can't see how their making so much money. Afterall, with PAP, let's say I go 20 times, that's only $11.25 a time. There not making much.

What we need to do, if grab the silent killers, and start to get 1-day people to stop coming. If we could sucessfully do this, Disney would lose money like crazy. ;) :D


Originally posted by merlinjones
Sweatshops: I bought a Snow White costume last Halloween at half price. Globalization has created this situation across the boord. I'm not sure there is anything we can do about it. But you shame me.

I've bought several costumes from Disney also, so shame on me. :rolleyes:

LPnerd
09-24-2003, 10:03 PM
after our trip last sept . I got on here and asked why the folks in calif. didn't raise the devil about NOWHERE NEAR ENOUGH STAFF TO BE SAFE! All the other issues I raised have come to pass also but never mind about the money. I got blasted and called liar!
The only way you can get those suits to listen to you is to hit them in their wallets. Renew your passes, go on like nothing has happened? What can you folks be thinkin of. I would like my kids to experience the magic too. Wake up , it's not there anymore!!! and it's slowly but surely leaving the wdw too.
Get your facts to the papers that will print it. write an editorial, get mad! It's yours not theres TAKE it BACK!!!!!

Nephythys
09-25-2003, 04:29 AM
I can not agree that the magic is gone- it isn't gone. There are a lot of rides down right now, but that will not last. There are problems, but they are not fatal. Disney magic lives on, not only at DL but also in what we give to our kids. My love of Disney infected them, and they will pass it on too.

I am not saying we should accept anything Disney does passively, if something needs to be said there seems to be no shortage of people to say it, but.....for many many people, the magic is most certainly there.

I still get a rush walking down Main Street, and I look forward to my next trip vry much!

I know there are things to rightfully complain about, but I do NOT get the overly negative attitude that seems to think that Disney Magic is dead- it's not!

Nephythys
09-25-2003, 06:44 AM
Oh, and one more thing- I have bought my daughter many dresses- I have bought the dresses at DL, Cinderella, Snow White, Aurora, and also a fabulous pirate dress at Pieces of Eight-(her personal favorite)-
I have bought the nightgowns and if I would be willing to shell out the money I would buy that deluxe Cinderella dress in a heartbeat- it's lovely-

and I feel no shame whatsoever-

merlinjones
09-25-2003, 07:09 AM
>>There are problems, but they are not fatal.<<

Ask the man on the Columbia dock or the young man on the mine train if "problems" can be fatal. Oh, yeah, they can't answer - - they're dead!

Brushing corporate arrogance under the rug can indeed be fatal. Or are we to accept that their right to tweak the numbers can be harmful to our health?


>>I am not saying we should accept anything Disney does passively, if something needs to be said there seems to be no shortage of people to say it, but.....<<

The problem is not "saying" it - - it's getting them to "act" on it. "Being heard" is over-rated management manipulation, just a stalling tactic unless it results in actual change.


>>I have bought the nightgowns and if I would be willing to shell out the money I would buy that deluxe Cinderella dress in a heartbeat- it's lovely- and I feel no shame whatsoever-<<

Surely, they are giving you a discount...

Doodle Duck
09-25-2003, 07:25 AM
Why do I feel that my AP at Sea World is appreciated and I'm treated well and catered to?
Same with Legoland?
Same with USH?

Why does todays 'Al' rumor once again mention how little my AP is cared about at DR? How 'they' want to eliminate me? Greed is not Magic...it is distasteful.
Fact is I've experienced the REAL Magic of Disneyland...and I've seen all they have to offer lately.
'They' can keep it.

Nephythys
09-25-2003, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by merlinjones
>>There are problems, but they are not fatal.<<

Ask the man on the Columbia dock or the young man on the mine train if "problems" can be fatal. Oh, yeah, they can't answer - - they're dead!

Brushing corporate arrogance under the rug can indeed be fatal. Or are we to accept that their right to tweak the numbers can be harmful to our health?


>>I am not saying we should accept anything Disney does passively, if something needs to be said there seems to be no shortage of people to say it, but.....<<

The problem is not "saying" it - - it's getting them to "act" on it. "Being heard" is over-rated management manipulation, just a stalling tactic unless it results in actual change.


>>I have bought the nightgowns and if I would be willing to shell out the money I would buy that deluxe Cinderella dress in a heartbeat- it's lovely- and I feel no shame whatsoever-<<

Surely, they are giving you a discount...

By fatal I meant the death of Disney, or the parks- and I think you know that perfectly well. I have great sympathies for anyone who has died at any Disney park, but that was NOT what I was talking about. I never said anything about allowing them to tweak numbers- do me a favor and take out your angst at Disney management on someone other than me.

You yourself said we need to be "heard"-

I encourage everyone - - from California resident to Toledo tourist - - who can perceive the difference in today's Disneyland and Disney in general to say how you feel! Let the readers here know - - let the company know.

Isn't saying what you feel the same as being heard? You make your comment in this post in an attempt to squash my point- yet you are contradicting your own.

No- no one gives me a discount and I am not sure what that snide comment is supposed to mean. I am not ashamed of having bought those dresses for my daughter- what is YOUR problem?

merlinjones
09-25-2003, 07:41 AM
>>I encourage everyone - - from California resident to Toledo tourist - - who can perceive the difference in today's Disneyland and Disney in general to say how you feel! Let the readers here know - - let the company know.<<

>>Isn't saying what you feel the same as being heard? You make your comment in this post in an attempt to squash my point- yet you are contradicting your own. <<

Not at all. "Being heard" is only step one - - and too many people/employees stop there, feeling successful. Even "being agreed with" is a hollow result. What we need to do is "demand results" and expect demonstrable action to be taken.

Simple validation is meaningless. Corporate culture depends on the ego gratification/validation of "being heard" to delay action and perpetuate desired results until it's too late for anyone to change it.

merlinjones
09-25-2003, 07:54 AM
>>Why does todays 'Al' rumor once again mention how little my AP is cared about at DR? How 'they' want to eliminate me? Greed is not Magic...it is distasteful. Fact is I've experienced the REAL Magic of Disneyland...and I've seen all they have to offer lately. 'They' can keep it.<<

Isn't it funny how stubborn and blind they can be? There is no problem here - - it's those annual passholders, whose familiarity has breeded contempt. We have repeatedly seen this balloon floated by sock puppets in online discussion. It's the AP's who go too often that notice the lack of upkeep... yadda yadda.

Even if they aren't serious about curbing that dependable revenue flow - - it's as if they want to "treaten" removal of annual passes to the "complainers". That they don't appreciate the business and layalty (let alone opinions - shredding AP complaints indeed!) of these customers is sheer arrogance.

Wouldn't it be easier to fire all the extra apparratchiks, computer jockeys and consultants to save money and just build the cool Walt level ride people demand?

Naw - - ego is at stake, marketing is king and the AP is to blame for all these problems.:rolleyes:

Nephythys
09-25-2003, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by merlinjones
>>I encourage everyone - - from California resident to Toledo tourist - - who can perceive the difference in today's Disneyland and Disney in general to say how you feel! Let the readers here know - - let the company know.<<

>>Isn't saying what you feel the same as being heard? You make your comment in this post in an attempt to squash my point- yet you are contradicting your own. <<

Not at all. "Being heard" is only step one - - and too many people/employees stop there, feeling successful. Even "being agreed with" is a hollow result. What we need to do is "demand results" and expect demonstrable action to be taken.

Simple validation is meaningless. Corporate culture depends on the ego gratification/validation of "being heard" to delay action and perpetuate desired results until it's too late for anyone to change it.

Funny how it is that we can say something very similar- but you move the bar so you can appear more enlightened. I never said that being heard was enough- but as you seem to need to appear superior- feel free.

From your mocking post to this- your disdain of my comments and my opinions is clear.

merlinjones
09-25-2003, 08:09 AM
Then we agree to disagree about what is important. Vive la difference!:fez:

Nephythys
09-25-2003, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by merlinjones
Then we agree to disagree about what is important. Vive la difference!:fez:

God you are infuriating- I never said I disagreed with what is important, nor did I say I disagreed with you on all of these points- I am commenting on your manner when responding to me- your superior snide attitude irks me-that it the only point right now-

Obviously you can't get along with everyone- point made-:D

merlinjones
09-25-2003, 08:20 AM
Vive la difference!:fez:

tracilicious
09-25-2003, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by Doodle Duck

Why does todays 'Al' rumor once again mention how little my AP is cared about at DR? How 'they' want to eliminate me? Greed is not Magic...it is distasteful.
Fact is I've experienced the REAL Magic of Disneyland...and I've seen all they have to offer lately.
'They' can keep it.

some thing i would like to point out...some journalists rely on unfounded rumors and fear-hashing to get readers. you can only rely on paint chipped trash cans for so long.

traci