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jerhow
09-22-2003, 10:52 AM
I know this has been discussed to death, but I'm throwing out my vent. DCA is an absolute insult. I was at the park over the weekend, and had never done the Tortilla Experience, so I decided to just do it since that "attraction" sums DCA up in a metaphorical nutshell.

So I went, and stood there with tourists who all had this blank expression on their faces as we watched a tortilla being made and then were handed our sample and ushered out.

How someone wasn't fired when they pitched the idea of a Tortilla Experience in a theme park is beyond me. It is an absolute disgrace.

You look at Paradise Pier, with a hotel and convention center and phone lines all in plain view and compare that to Tokyo DisneySea's most barren land, Arabian Coast, and it furthers the insult. Both lands only have one ride you would actually want to go on, but just standing in the Arabian Coast - the texture, the detail, the theming, is a more pleasurable experience than walking through all of DCA.

Had DisneySea been built instead of DCA, I already would have bought a season pass and probably would return every month! As would the entire local population and tourist population as well.

But instead, we have a park that alienates locals AND tourists. Disney truly has missed the boat with this theme park. When Tower of Terror opens, I will return to ride it. And I will return whenever a new E-Ticket is built. So I guess I will frequent DCA as much as I do Universal - once every decade. Conrats, Disney - you've built a park that I will visit 5 more times (assuming I can still ride an E-Ticket when I'm 77 years old.)

Sorry for the negativity. I just downloaded photos of DisneySea and became insanely jealous. I want that park here!!!

Kevy Baby
09-22-2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by jerhow
and had never done the Tortilla Experience, so I decided to just do it since that "attraction" sums DCA up in a metaphorical nutshell.

So I went, and stood there with tourists who all had this blank expression on their faces as we watched a tortilla being made and then were handed our sample and ushered out.

How someone wasn't fired when they pitched the idea of a Tortilla Experience in a theme park is beyond me. It is an absolute disgrace.


:p

I guess my wife and I are the only ones who like the tortillas. Okay, the attraction is very poorly executed, but hey... FREE FOOD.

Occasionally, I've been able to get a whole BAG of them. That and an overpriced soda = dinner. Although I've often wondered what they do with all the bags of tortillas they don't give away.

Nephythys
09-22-2003, 11:16 AM
It's a shame you feel that way- but I understand why-
I guess when you live further away everything becomes more enjoyable because it's Disney- at least for me- and I love other things in DCA alot-:fez:

PapiBear
09-22-2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Kevy Baby
:p

I guess my wife and I are the only ones who like the tortillas. Okay, the attraction is very poorly executed, but hey... FREE FOOD.

Occasionally, I've been able to get a whole BAG of them. That and an overpriced soda = dinner. Although I've often wondered what they do with all the bags of tortillas they don't give away.

If you want real tortillas, just drive down to Santa Ana, corner of Bristol and Edinger -- El Gallo Giro, open 24 hours. Much more authentic Mexican dining experience, and costs far less than a DCA ticket.

Equating the Spanish/Mexican influence in California with frickin' TORTILLAS really IS an insult. And besides, they already have that in Frontierland. Wow, watch a tortilla being made. Whoop-de-doo. Go see this in Santa Ana, or drive up to Olvera Street in downtown L.A. if you must.

Tortillas being made. Ah, yes, that classic Disney magic at work.
















Hey, what's the difference between DCA and a Hoover vacuum cleaner?

The Hoover vacuum cleaner doesn't suck nearly as much.

hbquikcomjamesl
09-22-2003, 11:52 AM
No, the Mission Tortilla Fiasco isn't the perfect metaphor for DCA. It's the perfect metaphor for every attempt Disney has made at an attraction having to do with Mexico.

Now, don't get me wrong. I've never been to Mexico, and have little inclination for going there, barely know enough Spanish to know the difference between "put your hands on your head" and "put your hands on your beer," and probably have a certain level of anti-Mexican bigotry that I'm unable to completely master in myself, but that's part of the point: if even I have little trouble seeing how insulting and belittling both the peep shows in the Mission Tortilla Fiasco, and Epcot Mexico's low-budget ride, "El Rio de Tiempo" (more like "El Desperdico de Tiempo"!) are to Mexico and to Mexican culture, and how much they perpetuate stereotypes, then the offense would have to be really blatant.

As to DCA, it's got its problems, like too much fast food and fine dining, and not enough comfort food (although with the Avalon Cove conversion, that problem is somewhat relieved), and some things that just plain didn't work, but many of the so-called problems are matters of people deciding that anything they personally don't like (e.g., Golden Dreams) are automatically bad. At least when I say something's bad, I can give a better reason than "it's not to my personal taste," or "it reminds me of things my ancestors did that I'd rather forget about" or "it runs contrary to my political opinions" (the latter two seem particularly common objections to Golden Dreams)

PapiBear
09-22-2003, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by hbquikcomjamesl
No, the Mission Tortilla Fiasco isn't the perfect metaphor for DCA.

Maybe some wiseacre in Burbank will want to combine Epcot's newest attraction with DCA and we'd end up getting --

MISSION: TORTILLA

I shudder to think how they'd design a spaceship for that one.

SacTown Chronic
09-22-2003, 01:03 PM
It seems to me that anyone over the age of 10 should know that a tortilla exhibit is gonna suck. We have never even considering thinking about taking in this tour or exhibit or whatever it is. If I want to watch tortillas being made, I'll go to Chevy's.

jerhow
09-22-2003, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by hbquikcomjamesl
many of the so-called problems are matters of people deciding that anything they personally don't like (e.g., Golden Dreams) are automatically bad.

The thing is, I don't mind a tortilla factory or a Golden Dreams attraction if it is splashed into a great variety of alternative things to do as well. Having Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln or canoe rides aren't attractions that will "wow" you, but they are vital to the Disneyland experience - those subtleties that make Disneyland stand out among the other sub-par theme parks.

But at DCA, when you can count the number of attractions on two hands, and the Tortilla Factory and Golden Dreams are among them - those attractions no longer become subtleties and we are forced to analyze them the same way we analyze a D or E-Ticket because they are the only things at the park that we can analyze.

No one has ever complained about Mr. Lincoln because there is SO MUCH else you can do at Dland to make it a fulfilling day. But anyone who says it takes time to build a park to house a full compliment of E-Tickets and the subtle attractions need only look to Tokyo DisneySea to find that with creativity and passion and a commitment to your brand, you can churn out a successful park right from the start that has the right balance of everything you need.

Kevy Baby
09-22-2003, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by PapiBear
If you want real tortillas, just drive down to Santa Ana, corner of Bristol and Edinger -- El Gallo Giro, open 24 hours. Much more authentic Mexican dining experience, and costs far less than a DCA ticket.


If I want real tortillas, I go to my wife's grandmother's house (I live for December when the family makes tamales!!!).

While I'm at DCA, I get free tortillas. They're about as authentic Mexican as Taco Bell, but I know what I am getting. When I want real Mexican food, I go to El Tepeyac or King Taco in East LA.

;)

hbquikcomjamesl
09-22-2003, 02:45 PM
I deeply resent having Golden Dreams lumped into the same category as the Mission Tortilla Fiasco, even moreso than I resent having Boudin lumped into that category.

Granted, Golden Dreams isn't in the same category as the CSRMF's Evidence of a Dream (the latter is so moving as to bring tears to my eyes, repeatedly, on every visit to Sacramento, particularly in the "Let Me Call You Sweetheart" sequence, and where the film ends on the transition from the "store window" scene to the view out the theatre windows into the museum's "Gov. Stanford" exhibit, and I'm starting to choke up even now), but GD is still a very moving film, and every objection I've ever seen to it (e.g., belittling it as "politically correct" or worse, "revisionist") really boils down to the objectors not wanting to be reminded of their ancestors' misdeeds or their own prejudices, or not wanting their political views contradicted by anything that might actually tell a balanced story.

Likewise, the Boudin exhibit, while it's not as good as many of the things you'll find in Epcot, or in the "Conservation Station" area of AK, is still very well done, and the multi-screen video tour with Rosie and Colin does an excellent job of giving guests a brief overview of a process so long and slow that they'd otherwise have to spend hours staring into the "fishbowl" windows to see more than a small part of the process and a lot of idle equipment.

The Mission Tortilla Fiasco (and I gladly lump Epcot's "El Desperdicio de Tiempo" into the same category with it), on the other hand, was done on the cheap (moreso than any other single attraction in DCA), and the most memorable parts of the presentation, the peep-shows, like the "marketplace" scene in the Epcot attraction (with the on-screen vendor following your boat from one screen to the next, making a fool of himself or herself to try and sell you something you don't want, don't need, and couldn't buy off a screen anyway), make laughingstocks of Mexican and Mexican-American culture, essentially presenting them as if every bigoted stereotype were true a thousand times over.

jerhow
09-22-2003, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by hbquikcomjamesl
I deeply resent having Golden Dreams lumped into the same category as the Mission Tortilla Fiasco

I think the bottom line here is that people spend a lot of money to enter these parks, and along with that, there are certain expectations that people have for what they are getting with that money.

Since Golden Dreams and Tortilla are two of only a handful of things to do at the park, generally most people, myself included, feel like they are not getting their money's worth. We would never even talk about Golden Dreams or Tortilla if there was the appropriate number of appealing attractions to occupy our time. If that was the case, people would think of Tortilla as a neat little subtlety - an extra little expense to give us a neat little nitch experience.

It's like this - Flik's Fun Fair came under heavy scrutiny for having a few tiny little rides that only the little kids can go on. The rides were short, the adults couldn't ride, the lines were too long, etc. etc. - the list goes on. DisneySea's version of Flik's Fun Fair and Fantasyland have smiliar rides but no one complains because they are just one tiny piece that makes up the colossal experience of DisneySea or Disneyland. But when Flik's is one of a few signature experiences at DCA, in contrast, it creates that attention and demands that scrutiny.

I honestly don't think DCA can win the battle until it has 4-5 more major E-Ticket rides, and 2-3 signature D-Tickets with theming, animatroics, whatever, which rival even the simplest of rides at Disneyland.

sleepyjeff
09-22-2003, 07:55 PM
[i] but GD is still a very moving film, and every objection I've ever seen to it (e.g., belittling it as "politically correct" or worse, "revisionist") really boils down to the objectors not wanting to be reminded of their ancestors' misdeeds or their own prejudices, or not wanting their political views contradicted by anything that might actually tell a balanced story.

[/B]

Seems to me that many supporters of this movie like it because it is revisionist, and reminds there beleived opponents about there ancestors' misdeeds, etc. If the supporters of this movie like it for these reasons, why can't opponents of this movie dislike it for the same reasons?

Me? I just think Woopi's acting is a bit over the top;)

merlinjones
09-22-2003, 08:11 PM
Re: Golden Dreams:

History can't be refabricated through the lens of political correctness and utopianism without becoming as much a lie as the old versions.

See "Animal Farm".

innerSpaceman
09-22-2003, 08:29 PM
The problem with Golden Dreams isn't that it's revisionist, or that it's accurate, or that it's anything in between. The problem with Golden Dreams is that it's a movie. Even if you like the thing, how many times can you really sit through it?

The problem with DCA is that it gives us a film called Golden Dreams to represent the history of California, while much classier Disney parks give us a Triple-E ticket presentation called The American Adventure to represent the history of the United States.

One can only be produced by Disney, and the other can be produced by anyone. One is a multi-faceted experience that can be enjoyed again and again, and the other is a static film that becomes stale after two viewings.

DCA is indeed an insult. It is a slap in the face by the white glove of Mickey Mouse. It is Pluto lifting his leg and peeing on your shoe.

merlinjones
09-22-2003, 08:37 PM
DCA is Dumbo droppings.

Lashbear
09-22-2003, 08:47 PM
All I can say is...

Try living in a country that doesn't even HAVE a Disney park, and then see whether you appreciate DCA !

..I liked it !

Cheers,
Rob.
(Who has to put up with Wonderland (http://www.wonderland.com.au/))

disneyfreak168
09-22-2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by Kevy Baby
:p

I guess my wife and I are the only ones who like the tortillas. Okay, the attraction is very poorly executed, but hey... FREE FOOD.

Occasionally, I've been able to get a whole BAG of them. That and an overpriced soda = dinner. Although I've often wondered what they do with all the bags of tortillas they don't give away.

HEY! we like them too ya know! :p and before when they had that tour guide person who always asked "does anyone know how many missions there are in California?" we always say "21" in a dull voice after a long awkward silence. :p :p :rolleyes: :rolleyes: . we pay attention in school! (not to mention we had to do models of 'em):p :D

TheatreTech
09-22-2003, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by PapiBear
If you want real tortillas, just drive down to Santa Ana, corner of Bristol and Edinger -- El Gallo Giro, open 24 hours. Much more authentic Mexican dining experience, and costs far less than a DCA ticket.

O-M-G :eek: I eat there all the time. Serously. No Joke.:eek:

Master K
09-22-2003, 09:37 PM
Are you all serious? Saying DCA stinks because you don't like the Tortilla show or Golden Dreams is just silly.

My family loves DCA we spend many a day just at DCA and we have a great time. It is such an underused and over abused park that it is a joy. There are almost never lines. The mission tortilla is a great quick run through for a fun bite. My son can usually get 5 or 6 runs through as we walk to something else and he catches up :) and on a hot day Golden Dreams is a fine air-conditioned escape from the sun. Is either a classic? No. but they are not an insult either. As for the DCA haters. Please stay out then, it makes the park less crowded and happier for my family! The folks I see at DCA from time to time complaing loudly about everything do more to kill a good time than either of these attractions.

sleepyjeff
09-22-2003, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by Master K
and on a hot day Golden Dreams is a fine air-conditioned escape from the sun.

So is Denny's:)

Morrigoon
09-22-2003, 10:51 PM
master k: we do, in droves

lashbear: from the wonderland website-

Old Botany Bay is an atmospheric recreation of life in Australia's first settlement surrounded by tranquil lakeside lagoons and sunken ships.
.
.
.
In Old Botany Bay, you find yourself suspended upside down, 24 metres above sea level on the Bounty's Revenge. The ship swings like a giant pendulum through an amazing 360 degrees.


LOL

Lashbear
09-22-2003, 11:20 PM
Old Botany Bay....surrounded by tranquil lakeside lagoons. In Old Botany Bay, you find yourself suspended upside down, 24 metres above sea level on the Bounty's Revenge. The ship swings like a giant pendulum through an amazing 360 degrees.
Sounds REAL Tranquil to me !! :rolleyes:



.....actually I won't go on that ride anymore, because one time the lap-bar came down too tightly, and I yammied all afternoon ! :(

GoofDaddy
09-23-2003, 01:09 AM
I took our family of 6 to DCA for the first time last month with very low expectations -- in part because of all the negative comments on this board. Apart from the obviously-impressive-but-admittedly-too-few E-ticket rides, here's what I came away with:

*Electrical parade -- OK, this was a REALLY big deal for us cuz we've practically worn out the Farewell Season Video; all of my kids love this parade, so we saw it live three times. What was a pleasant surprise was the live music that came by about 20 min prior to the parade. My 8 y.o. sang into the mike along with the performer, while the 4 y.o. twins shook their 'lil bums on the dance floor. Great memories; great pics! PS -- sorry to any of you that had to listen to my daughter sing....

*Arts & Crafts Architecture around GRR -- maybe CA locals are sick of the stuff, but for easterners its pretty cool to feel the ambiance of the Arts & Crafts movement. Disney has always been good about picking up the nuance & feeling of a theme; they continue their tradition of excellence here.

*Hollywood Backlot theming -- basically same comment as above. The Disney folks really do a good job of picking up on the golden era of LA -- from the art deco to the nod to the Brown Derby, you get a real feel for the uniqueness of Hollywood as it might be seen from the distant & admittedly unrealistic eye of a non-resident. Sure, the place is sanitized & sterilized. By putting LA into the '30s, Disney was able to avoid current, less flattering LA icons like the Whiskey, H'wood & Vine, and Van Nuys. But they make you remember what is/was great about the place.

*The Alladin Show -- I've seen worse for more $$ both on- and off-Broadway. Really well done; I expect to see an expanded version in the New Amsterdam Theatre in a season or two. (Probably for double the price!)

*The monorail speeding over the Golden Gate bridge at the entrance plaza -- If that isn't every Californian's idea of the future...well, maybe not Arnold's....

*The greetings from CA signs -- If you take the picture just right, you can get your family into a postcard/snapshot. Very clever!

*Disney Animation -- what we came to refer to as the Living Room was perhaps my favorite of all DCA attractions. Nice & cool; soothing & uplifting. The place simply makes me happy.

*Playhouse Disney -- Four-year-olds in paradise!

*Redwood challenge area -- hands-down the world's greatest playground, ever. We spent over two hours there, and had to work hard to get the kids back on "attractions".

*Theming for show waiting areas -- While this doesn't speak too well for the shows themselves, I found the waiting areas on both Bug's Life & Muppetvision to be very witty & entertaining.

Sure, the wow factor was somewhat less than DL, but DCA had a relaxed kind of charm that made me feel very good about spending two of our five Disney days at that park. We even liked the tortillas -- for my Connecticut yankee kids, what you would call ugly stereotypes was actually a learning experience. Everyone was kind & my kids even got free stickers at the first aid place, where they have refrigerated water. On the whole, DCA was the sleeper hit of our vacation.

MonorailMan
09-23-2003, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by GoofDaddy
On the whole, DCA was the sleeper hit of our vacation.

More like a "fall asleeper" hit. Sorry, I couldn't resist. :D :p

Overall, DCA isn't that bad, but it's lacking certain key points. However, if you compare Disneyland and DCA to each other, Disneyland is downright the winner. However, if DCA was a park built by itself, oh, let's say outside of California, then it would have done great. :)

The problem is, when you've got 48 year old competition next door, and a place that everyone's heard of, you have a reputation to maintain, or with DCA, lack thereof. :) :D

merlinjones
09-23-2003, 07:10 AM
I can't understand why everyone on these boards is so cynical about Disney's California Adventure. After reading the horror stories here, we went for a three day Disney Resort (c) vacation last month and found a world of Disney magic (c) awaiting our little family. My second wife's children and I had a wonderful bonding experience at this incredible new addition to the Disneyland experience.

1) The sky was bright blue and beautiful with the warm sun pouring down on us all day. Even a touch of ocean breeze added to the experience. Disney has truly outdone themselves here in duplicating the perfect Southern California weather.

2) Churros. Little Meagan grabbed a churro and used it as a microphone to emulate Brittany Spears, giving us a karaoke mini-concert. Her tube top alomst fell off! You can't replace precious moments like these. Thanks, Disney!

3) The monorail stalled just over the Golden Gate bridge, allowing us a perfect shot with our new digital camera. How thoughtful of Disney to do this. It's the little touches that matter.

4) I pondered the brilliant detail of a facade in paradise pier. At one point they used real wood instead of sculpted cement. Now that's the traditional Imagineering magic at work still. Incredible, going to that expense!

5) The beds at Disney's Grand Californian Hotel and Resort (c) were anchored down in such a way that my new wife and I could enjoy our own little vacation without disturbing the kids next door. Remarkble soundproofing and convenint bedposts for handcuffs. What a thoughtful touch!

6) My son saw Stitch and had us in stitches doing an impression. Who would have thought about this happening?

7) When my wife's kids complained that they'd rather go to Disneyland Park (c) for the day, we reasserted our right to experience family time together. This conversation and the resulting bonding experience could only have happened at DCA. Thanks again, Disney.

We all reccommend this truly enjoyable family getaway experience at Disney's California Adventure (c), Disney's Grand Californian (c) and Downtown Disney (c) at the Disneyland Resort in Anaheim (c). It was a cost effective and truly unforgettable investment experience. See your liscensed travel agent today!

StitchDaddy - - My first post after lurking forever!