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SimpTwister
09-05-2001, 10:28 PM
This is for the disenchanted, like myself...

In your eyes, what would the Disney Co. need to do to repair its tarnished image, especially (but not necessarily exclusively) regarding the theme parks?


Here's my list:

-TOT in DCA, at least as good as the Fla. version.

-New show in Hyperion.

-One additional D or E ticket (and I mean a *real* D or E ticket) in DCA, preferably in Paradise Pier.

-E ticket (again, a *real* one, like Indy or Splash or Pirates) in the Sub Lagoon area.

-Restore the PeopleMover.

-One more new ride in TL (Buzz would be fine).

-Beastly Kingdom in DAK, again with an E ticket ride.


Last but not least:

-Cease and desist the practice of making crappy, direct-to-video sequels of CLASSIC animated films.

If someone actually SET OUT to destroy the power of the Disney brand, the easiest way would be to churn out these turds just as Disney is now doing!

They would also need to immediately recall all unsold inventory from all stores, offer to buy back copies from Blockbuster and Hollywood, and then deny that these, uh, >cough< 'films' ever existed.



The sad thing is that even if Disney started following these steps tomorrow, it would really just bring them back to 'zero'; to the place they should have been already.

Still, it would make me feel a lot better and go a long way toward restoring my faith.


OK, that's me. How about you?

Morrigoon
09-06-2001, 12:24 AM
Well said!

Stop raising prices for one year, while simultaneously restoring the quality of appearance and maintenance that I grew up expecting of them. Hiring more facilities/maintenance guys for the DAY shift (so there's more ppl to fix broken rides). Basically, make cost and quality finally meet again.

And yes, quit the stupid sequels!

merlinjones
09-06-2001, 06:01 AM
>>Cease and desist the practice of making crappy, direct-to-video sequels of CLASSIC animated films.

>>If someone actually SET OUT to destroy the power of the Disney brand, the easiest way would be to churn out these turds just as Disney is now doing!

>>They would also need to immediately recall all unsold inventory from all stores, offer to buy back copies from Blockbuster and Hollywood, and then deny that these, uh, >cough< 'films' ever existed.<<

You are right on the money here (literally). The immediate financial success of these made-for-video titles has led foolish executives to beleive that they are well-accepted and beloved product. But the truth is they are being used as impulse-buy baby sitting pacifiers, and are not regarded by most to be real films. The creative content quality of these productions could not be lower, with the most ignorant, clueless and bland of all Disney executive imaginations in charge of this material. it hardly needs to be this way - - there are great talents out there who could do justice to some of these characters.

Regardless, the very presence of these sterile, definitively non-special presentations dilutes the power and specialness of the originals (already harmed by overexposure). Especially bad is that the storylines of these films are stale formula templates creating watered-down, politically correct, tepid "remakes" of the originals (rather that expanding the themes and characters like a good sequel). Utter crud.

Disney is killing the goose that laid the golden egg with these spoiled gooseeggs - - all in the name of short term profit. People are beginning to perceive the trick behind the magic - - I've heard much grousing amongst the general public that Disney just wants the money (no, duh). If they can spot it at Target, something has gone horribly wrong.

(Associating the Disney logo and name with artless and ugly animated product like "Recess" is just as bad - - and like the sequels, once unthinkable. How about a Touchstone Animation brand for this stuff?).

But nothing will change anytime soon - - not until people stop buying these cassettes as babysitters. Currently in the hopper: Peter Pan II: Back to Neverland (which they are reworking to death to make it palatable enough for theatrical release in Spring), Cinderella II (derided by all who have seen it as an absolutely awful travesty), Dumbo II, Jungle Book II, more Pooh of course, Sleeping Beauty II, Pinocchio II, more Dalmatians (I lost count), etc., etc.

Amusingly, those titles with legitimate literary sequels to draw from (Through the Looking Glass) are not on the list.

"You can't top pigs with pigs." - - Walt Disney

hbquikcomjamesl
09-06-2001, 08:45 AM
Hmm. Regarding the sequels, one of them, the "Beauty and the Beast" Christmas show, was the talk of the PIPORG-L list server (because of Forte, the "evil pipe organ") for a couple of weeks, when it came out. (http://www.albany.edu/piporg-l, then follow the "services and archives" link, and search the archives on "evil pipe organ"). Some felt that it would create interest; others, most notably myself, felt it would create such negative associations that it would be worse than nothing.

But back to the parks, I really haven't lost much confidence in Disney, but I'd certainly like to see CircleVision back (as I've said before on other threads), with rotating shows of all extant CircleVision films (including Timekeeper, as soon as duplicate animatronics can be built). And I'd like to see the Submarine back in some form. And I'd like to see a GENTLY updated MSEP come home (gently as in maybe replacing the missing Pinocchio unit with a new one built to Dreamlights standards, as well as switching to the Dreamlights Blue Fairy, but definitely keeping the existing analog synth soundtrack; it would also be nice to add in the butterfly and dragonfly dancers seen in the Alice unit in Florida).

I'm not in any great rush for a west coast Tower of Terror (then again, I never got to it in Florida, either), but I'd love to see a west coast version of The Great Movie Ride (though I can't imagine how they'd find the space for it)

3894
09-06-2001, 08:57 AM
Amen to the above. I'd like to add:

Total redo of Tomorrowland to the quality of 1967.

amynicole22
09-06-2001, 10:05 AM
Amen to the call for a moratorium on sequels. Well spoken. The day they release Sleeping Beauty 2 is the day I boycott for good.

As for the parks - if they returned their focus to stellar upkeep and maintenance of attractions, I would be thrilled. Also, I would prefer that the building of new attractions doesn't come at the expense of older, beloved favorites, especially when other viable options can be utilized. Disneyland must grow and change, but I firmly believe that they could have found a way to install a Pooh ride without axeing the Country Bears.

And, even though it's just a pipe dream, I would love to see a park on the West Coast that was comparable to TDS in quality, showmanship and innovation.

For the moment, still disillusioned...

SimpTwister
09-06-2001, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by Me!
They would also need to immediately recall all unsold inventory from all stores, offer to buy back copies from Blockbuster and Hollywood, and then deny that these, uh, >cough< 'films' ever existed.


Just for the record, I was exaggerating here.

Even the worst movies should be available to collectors and to anyone who wants to take the effort to find them. Just take them off the shelves, maybe you could special-order them at the Disney store. Anything as long as they don't give the impression that the lame sequels are representative of the Disney brand.

amynicole22 says Sleeping Beauty 2 will be the last straw. I think for me it was Hunchback of Notre Dame 2! The very title sounds like a bad joke. How could anyone involved with that project have taken it seriously? They *know* they're churning out dreck, they have to know. No one is that ignorant.


Regarding theatrical releases: Why was Lion King so huge? Three reasons- The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast. Disney had finally dug itself out of the hole in which it had lived through the 70s and 80s, and went on a real winning streak.

Q-U-A-L-I-T-Y. What's that spell, Mikey?

What were the last 3 Disney animated features? Atlantis, Recess: School's Out, and... Uh, something. I honestly don't remember.

blusilva
09-06-2001, 02:01 PM
1. Restore the maintenance standards for Disneyland that existed when Walt was in charge.

2. Stop with the crapola direct-to-video "sequels". I agree with everyone else on that and honestly it was my second reaction to the question.

3. Put in at least one "E Ticket" Imagineer designed attraction of the caliber of Indy per year a period of five years without raising admission.

4. Completely redesign and rebuild the disaster they insist on calling Tomorrowland, including putting a new attraction in the Sub Lagoon.

5. Stop with the PG-13 "family" films that rely so heavily on bodily function jokes. Get some class.

That wouldn't do it completely, but it'd be a start.

Corith
09-06-2001, 04:27 PM
Set the standard for ALL attractions AND shops to be at least equal to those of TDS - this includes new, existing, and maintenance issues.

Reduce Micheal Einser's over all take home pay by 33%
Fire Paul Pressler
Fire Barry Braverman
Fire Ray Gomez

Another make over of Tomorrowland in DL, held to the standard of TDS.
Add 2 E-ticket attractions to DL - again TDS standard
Add 1 E-Ticket attraction to DCA- again TDS standard
Redcue the overall amount of retail floor space in DCA by 20%
Lower prices of DCA by 33% until it meets TDS quality standards.
Reduce the number of ODV carts in DL by 20%
Increase outdoor custodial by 10% - get those parks cleaned up

Morrigoon
09-06-2001, 06:13 PM
Take Michael Eisner's salary and bonuses to Steve Wynn and >>BEG<< him to take the job. Invite Eisner to move on to new projects. Tell Mattel what a great economist Pressler is and how valuable he'd be to them, OR at least remove him from the parks for good, and put him back in charge of the long-suffering (since he left them) Disney stores. Allow the parks a little more autonomy, what works in Florida does not necessarily work in California. Ask APs WHAT THEY WANT, rather than guessing or ignoring completely. Note I did not say give us everything we want, but treat our input as valuable, rather than guessing and failing badly. I, for one, would love to see crepe ODV carts like they had in DLP (they get chocolate crepes and we get tamales? what the heck?) It's such a small thing, but by asking for it, obviously I'm saying that's something I'd be willing to pay $4 for (that's what crepes sell for at the Paris, Las Vegas hotel - and they're HUGE!). I'm more than willing to give them my money - when, as, and if they produce something worth buying. Sleeping Beauty II does not fit that category, no matter how much I love the original (and if they make her dress pink, there's NO WAY I will buy that poor waste of magnetic tape)

pheneix
09-06-2001, 06:27 PM
Fire Eisner and offer his job and 50% of his pay to George Lucas.

Put Pressler back in charge of running Disney Stores and put Tony Baxter in charge of the parks.

Fire the talentless jokes running animation and beg/bribe Katzenberg to come back, even if it means buying Dreamworks.

Kill the damned sequels unless there are legitimate sources to draw them from.

Allow me to personally beat the snot out of the idiot responsible for Bubble Boy.

Let Braverman keep Hong Kong Disneyland. Hell, let him OWN the place for all I care. Then it's HIS problem when the armed soldiers show up. ;)

I can't even begin to describe where to start with the parks, but I'll allocate a $5 billion budget to start with.

Then I would begin to feel at home again.

Pheneix

Mr D
09-06-2001, 07:21 PM
Hire me as CEO at a modest salary and no bonuses for at least 5 years.

mrfantasmic
09-06-2001, 07:56 PM
On improving Disney's quality:

In movies:
First of all, I was a little dissappointed with the way Atlantis performed at the Box Office, and I think that it should have done so much better! The main reason is that it was rated PG. Why? Who knows.
Oh, and ixnay on the upidstay! Meaning STOP THE SEQUAL CRAZE!! (ok, Toy Story 2 was good...)

On the parks:
Bear with me folks, this will be a long one!

1. Increase park maintenence requirements. That means to train those mechanics in what they need to know to get the job done. (I'm thinking Space Mountain here) Remember those good old times when the breakdowns were less frequent and shorter? I think we need to get to those times again.
By the way, why is the Matterhorn closed twice a year? I can't ever remember that happening to any other rides.

2. *sigh* David Koenig referred to the cleaner crew as an ever-patrolling crew. Sure, but don't work the poor devils to death. They need more of them.
I watched the Travel Channel's Secrets show on Universal Studios...
Wow, they have a prestegiows graveyard shift. I'll refer back to Mouse Ears (I love that book!) and if you have it, read the Underground Disneyland chapter. That's what we wished happened. I've been to DL many times with there being lightbulbs out on Main Street! Scandal! And need we mention the state of the paint in Toon Town?

3. More "E-Ticket attractions!" Rocket Rods was a great Idea, but they were too cheap to change the track to make it work. Test Track still works, doesn't it? (Someone's going to have to check me on this. I really don't know!) So why can't we bring the Rods back and revamp the track to accomidate. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who misses the sound of those cars zipping along the track.
And awhile back we had a great thread about new sub ideas. I think some of those were pretty good! I would like an E ride in the lagoon!
They do have some space for more rides. What they can do outside the berm is limitless, but all of it now is in Adventureland. I would really like to see some Indy caliber rides in the park.

Someone mentioned George Lucas in there...:) I like that one. We need more of those George Lucas/WDI attractions like Star Tours and Indiana Jones. Heck, lets get Speildberg in there!

Oh, and one more thing on Star Tours:
I know for a fact that it's not my first flight.
And it's not Rex's either.

mrfantasmic :)

disneyhead
09-06-2001, 08:39 PM
Man, and I was really hopeing for "Recess II: Schools out for President's Day"

Nigel2
09-06-2001, 09:25 PM
I think that the reason they made a 3rd Aladdin was to finnaly have Jasmine get married to Aladdin since 1 and 2 lacked that important feature. Also I would want to see Pressler have to live as cheaply as possible in his own home, having to shop at Cosco, nothing fancy...and he has to drive a Yougo or a Gremlin.

merlinjones
09-06-2001, 11:00 PM
1) Release Walt Disney's Classic "Song of the South" on VHS and DVD with appropriate fanfare.

2) Cease the making and marketing of low-budget, pre-fab, PC animated feature sequels (whether dreck-to-video-titles or theatrical).

3) Put the most popular signature animated feature classics (SW, P, F, D, B, C, AIW, PP, L&T, SB, 101, JB, A, MAWTP - - LM, B&B, A, LK) on moratorium for defintive theatrical and limited video releases no sooner than every seven years to perpetuate the titles as unique and special classics to be handed down through generations (as they have been for sixty years).

4) Re-integrate Walt's classic films, cartoons and short subjects into the mainstream Disney Channel lineup or create a separate Vault Disney or Disney Classics Channel to perpetuate the heart of the Disney library and characters to new generations at reasonable showtimes.

5) Change the management structure in all business units to balance creative with finance.

6) Change the style and tone of the corporate culture at WDC to reflect its heritage as a creative content company. Fire executives that bully and mistreat employees. Treat others as they wish to be treated.

7) Renew earlier mission statements that dedicated the company to "the finest in family entertainment", offering goods and services that let people escape the mudane into worlds of wonder through products that EXCEED rather than meet expectations.

8) Do away with executive bonuses to eliminate process of destroying the business units to meet artificial growth demands.

9) Create new animated feature product in the Disney tradition. Diversity and social agendas are not the demand here - - people want quality storytelling and perpetuation of mythic archetypes.

10) Realize that people love cartoons and cartoonist sensibilities. Empower those who share these instincts again so they might create new product in this tradition in the animation and Imagineering arenas.

11) Make the inferior California Adventure part of Downtown Disney with separately priced attractions.

12) Build a suitable third (second) gate for Disneyland Resort, something of the quality of DisneySea or Islands of Adventure.

13) Restore or rebuild a state of the art Tomorrowland that Disneyland can be proud of.

14) Restore or refurbish classic Disneyland attractions that are widely missed by the public (Skyway, Submarines, Golden Horseshow, Inner Space, etc.). Keep the remaining classics open, with appropriate technical modifications and rehabs to keep the timeless themes and stories relevant.

15) Properly maintain the Disney theme park properties and attractions to 1980's standards.

16) Add breathtaking new and visionary experiences (E tickets) to the Disney theme parks on constant basis. Rides with the thrill and vision of IOA's Spider-Man.

17) Retrain the finance department to support rather than supplant creative units.

18) Admit that the customer is always right and desrves only the best from the Disney name.

19) Cease the maufacture of low-grade product from the consumer product, home video and television/cable divisions.

20) Cease the overmarketing of classic characters, cycling them appropriately along with their reissues to perpetuate their value (as was done successfully through history).

21) Cease treating the Disney brand as a generic household label like Xerox or Proctor and Gamble. Remember what the name means and why. Don't associate the brand with low-quality product (KMart McDonald's).

22) Reintroduce an exaggerated high art aesthetic applied to popular forms as was once the Disney norm. Show taste in design again.

23) Build a Walt Disney Museum combining the collections of Disney Archives, Animation Research Library, WED Archives and Retlaw.

24) Expand the catalog of available audio and video titles derived from the classic library.

25) Cease the reliance on artificial emotionality, cloying sentiment and patronizing marketing attitudes in Disney product. Quit referring to the "magic" and start making some.

26) Restore the luster to Walt's name and reputation as a visionary film-maker and showman.

27) Fire top management at the company from CEO down if they are not capable of making the above changes and replace with fresh visionaries that understand the public's creative mandate for the WDC.

28) Don't gouge the customers.

29) Remember that the proof is in the product - - not the marketing.

Morrigoon
09-06-2001, 11:23 PM
A Vault Disney channel! I love it! (Only I'm slightly scared because Vault Disney the other night was actually one of their recent direct-to-cable travesties, what was up with THAT?)

I would love to see Ludwig Von Drake get his own regular time! (Why doesn't Disney make those anymore? Oh yeah -- they're entertaining) Who can forget Jiminy Cricket singing "I'm no fool, no siree, I'm gonna live to be 93, I play safe for you and me 'cause I'm no fool...." Or how about Scrooge McDuck teaching Huey Dewey and Louis (Looey?) about the value of investing money!

Oh man, they could run all our favorite cheesy old films! Summer Magic, Condorman, Escape to Witch Mountain.... woohoo!

Yes, a Vault Disney channel would be very welcome.

Anyone remember Mouseterpiece Theater? ;)

Mr D
09-07-2001, 04:29 AM
I would start a Disney News Network, a half hour news program much the same as CNN, with latest attractions, weather, travel planning and side features such as developements taking place of new projects, new movie releases, interviews with the imagineers, show planners and feedback from people around the globe at ALL the parks. Or have a seperate news of Disney International, footage of the differences of DLP, TDR, and the newer parks being planned in China and other locations.

merlinjones
09-07-2001, 07:36 AM
Also:

30) Empower/promote to manager/executive/operations status only workers/artists/cast that have experience/expertise in specialty fields such as animation direction, production, story, imagineering, entertainment, attractions operation, etc. Using numbers managers, theorists, efficiency experts, elitists, marketers, those from cross fields, and cynical cronies to manage those with more experience and insight into their specialties ensures bad creative and operational decisions and procedures and creates poor staff morale as well as poor product and inefficiencies. At the park this can create life-threatening situations.

31) Trim the ranks of middle level managers and minimize beurocracy. trust employees to be professional and do their jobs.

32) Continue to support senior employees and pay them what they are worth. Don't try to consturctively fire these valuable people to save on pensions and benefits.

33) Realize that those on staff that know about the company's history have something valuable to offer, lest they be doomed to repeat their mistakes.

34) Allow win-win situations.

35) Release an animated feature no more than once every two-three years to increase quality, preserve artfulness of product, and preserve the integrity value and specialness of this crucial product to the consumer. Release Pixar films and other pick-ups in alternate years. Make better films. release no other animated features (ie: dreck-to-video or Recess-level features) under the Disney banner to prevent brand-dilution.

36) Fully and properly restore all film libraries under Disney ownership, including short subjects and television episodes. When these assets are gone, they're GONE. Restore films with integrity to their original intent rather than bowing to the infinite possibilities of technology.

37) Fire all development executives. Throw out their theories, formulas and templates.

38) Respect the customer. Respect those that value the Disney name. Respect people that shop at KMart, Wal-Mart and Target. Repect the mid West and South. Respect the middle and lower classes. Respect the populist traditions of the company. Respect Walt Disney and what he acheived. Respect staff. Respect experience. Respect art. Respect human beings. Respect anything other than power and money.

39) Pay people what they are worth.

40) Give people only the best quality for their money.

3894
09-07-2001, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by merlinjones


36) ... Respect people that shop at KMart, Wal-Mart and Target. Repect the mid West and South. Respect the middle and lower classes.



Merlinjones, I must have missed something. Can you elucidate the above?

merlinjones
09-07-2001, 07:51 AM
>>36) ... Respect people that shop at KMart, Wal-Mart and Target. Repect the mid West and South. Respect the middle and lower classes. <<

>>Merlinjones, I must have missed something. Can you elucidate the above?<<

It has been said in recent years (by executives around the studio) that films only have to be good enough for the people who shop at KMart (or good enough for the people in "fly over country").

Also - - The parks are priced out of reach of many in the lower income levels (those with less disposable income).

3894
09-07-2001, 08:10 AM
Thanks. As someone who grew up in California, went to school there, and has family in Northern California, I must say some Californians can be shockingly provincial.

As for K-Mart, I personally know a Nobel laureate in Physics who shops there. Nope, he doesn't buy his clothes there.

merlinjones
09-07-2001, 08:22 AM
>>As for K-Mart, I personally know a Nobel laureate in Physics who shops there. Nope, he doesn't buy his clothes there.<<

Hopefully, he's not buying "Lady and the Tramp II" or "Recess; the Movie" either.

3894
09-07-2001, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by merlinjones
[B Hopefully, he's not buying "Lady and the Tramp II" or "Recess; the Movie" either. [/B]

:)

Everyone, this has been my favorite MP thread ever. Extremely interesting posts.

Flubber
09-07-2001, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by merlinjones
25) Cease the reliance on artificial emotionality, cloying sentiment and patronizing marketing attitudes in Disney product. Quit referring to the "magic" and start making some.

So nail on the head!

Remember flying over neverland or being shrunk so small you travel into a snowflake? How about an evil queen becoming an old hag right before your eyes...

Now I'm asked to "Believe...There's Magic in the Stars" and told that I'm visiting "where the magic began". When I'm being told I'm experiencing magic it tends to make it less -um- magical.

I would love the company to find a way to finance and encourage creative theme park and movie/television/online ideas. Rather than taking a concept and molding it to fit a budget, turn it around and find a way to finance good ideas (didn't Walt use his own money to help out occasionally?). I'm afraid though with the albatross The Disney Stores have become and ABC is becoming hanging around the company's neck we won't see my wish come true. The theme parks and classic movie catalog will continue to finance media acquisitions.

Regain my confidence? Dump Eisner. Give him ABC as a severance package.

Gone on long enough.
Flub