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RobRoz
09-09-2003, 10:05 PM
I remember when I was growing up going to the local fair and being scared to death of riding the thrill rides (if you can call the Zipper and other like rides thrill rides) And never considered going on a Roller Coaster in a million years. For myself it was safety reasons, thinking that a bolt was not screw on too tight and while I was on the ride the bolt would slip or snap and I would going falling from the top of the ride landing to my death below. Well that all change when I was 25 years old and took my first trip to Disneyland. I was always a big Disney fan growing up in upstate NY . I remember on Sunday nights lying on the floor with my sister wide eyed waiting untill the wonderfull world of disney came on ,and thinking too myself maybe one day I will be able to go too this truly magical place. I remember the first time I walk into the park and it was like everything that was good in the world was in Disneyland. I was newly married and living in Las Vegas so it was just a short 3 and a half hour ride too the park.Once inside the park I took it all in . I remember the first ride I went on was Pirates and as got off the ride I said too my wife that there cant be a better ride in the park than that.She told me "You think so ? Well just follow me " We walk along the banks of the Rivers of America and all of a sudden I heard faint screams , coming form what seem like along ways away. Well, as you might have guess by now she was leading me to Big Thunder Mt. Railroad. My wife knew that I never have been on a RollerCoaster before and was affraid of them. I remember leaning on the rail watching the train go by into the tunnel while everyone on the train was screaming. And I thought too myself "NO WAY,I am NOT going on" ....... but all of a sudden something click in my head...wait a minute this is Disneyland ,I said too myself ...the house Walt Disney built ... Is Walt Disney going too let me get hurt? and what about Mickey and Minnie ? they for sure are not going too let anything happen...and all of a sudden ALL my fears where gone. My wife look over at me and said "what do you think" and I said lets do it.....And too make a long story longer , I love it ,and all my fears of roller coasters were gone, or aleast i thought. Next was the Matterhorn and my the end of the day Space Mt. I broke the ice and from that day on, I loved going on roller coasters......But now, I am not so sure anymore...How the Hell did this happen???? I can see some where eles but not Disneyland....why ? ..how ? this is not a local fair pulling into town ...this is freaking Disneyland ... $ 48 dollars a day Disneyland ...is this my worst fear come true???? a bolt ??? My wife my daughter and myself had plans on visiting the park sometime in Oct. ..... but, now I am not so sure ....my daughter said she is never going on a roller coaster again ( she is 16 ) because if it can happen at Disney it can happen anywhere....and I know this is not the first person to lose his or her life on a ride at Disneyland but it seems like too me this one could of been avoided....... Thanks for reading ..Thanks for letting me vent ...Thoughts ??

Morrigoon
09-09-2003, 10:16 PM
Disneyland probably averages around 30K per day over the course of a year. That comes to nearly 11 million people. 11 people got hurt. So even if this happened annually, you have a one-in-a-million chance of being hurt.

Go enjoy your roller coasters.

RobRoz
09-09-2003, 10:19 PM
geezz , thank you for breaking the numbers down for me ..that makes me feel a whole lot better

Morrigoon
09-09-2003, 10:23 PM
NP :)

sleepyjeff
09-09-2003, 10:25 PM
At my local county fair a few years back I was standing in line for a ride called the Enterprise---a ride that goes in a circle up-side down using centrifigul effect to keep you in place with no seat belt.

As the ride was loading a group in front of us, an operator picked up a large bolt, did a head scratch, and stuffed the bolt into his back pocket.

I jumped out of line. The ride continued to operate for about an hour before I noticed that they shut it down.

This ride had the longest lines of any ride at the fair.
I am sure they shut it down because somebody ( other than the head scratcher ) figured out that there was a bolt missing

:eek:

I hope the young operators of Disneyland rides are taught to tell there superiors if something looks amiss.

Allison
09-10-2003, 08:01 AM
Don't go in October until they at least have Haunted Mansion ready for the holiday!


Your story reflects what so many of us have held dear for so long, however this is the house that Walt built, but sadly he doesn't live there anymore, Eisner does.

Bruce Bergman
09-10-2003, 08:50 AM
As someone who has blown the whistle on a travelling carnival before, travelling carnivals are an accident waiting to happen. After seeing the depths of their neglect for safety you can NOT pay me enough to get on any travelling carnival ride.

If Disneyland's maintenance ever reached that low level I would be shouting about it from the mountaintops.

I watched the trucks pull in (a dozen rides or so), and carefully watched as they set up, as I was volunteering for Security shifts on site. I watched them jimmy stuff, leave out braces and safety systems, and other gross violations, and when I mentioned that they left something loose was told to mind my own business.

Luckily for our guests, I've never been very good at minding my own business, especially when someone orders me to... :D I went to find a payphone. Took a while to get the right people on the phone, but they were VERY interested in what I had to say.

When the State inspector arrived, he shut down EVERY ride they brought for one reason or another. A third were repaired and passed the next day, but another third were down for a week making repairs, and a third were packed up and trucked out to their base for major repairs, and replaced with other rides that could pass inspection.

And EVERY fuse in their electrical system was a piece of copper busbar, just like the "penny in the fusebox" trick but on a much larger scale - they probably had to spend $1,000 + just on fuses to replace them all and get a stock of spares. Some of their safety power disconnect switches and Emergency Stop switches were broken and bypassed. Another way someone could have easily been killed - the ride breaks, someone hits the "E-Stop" button, and it keeps running...

Their "Himalaya" ride had all the broken factory controls ripped out, and a simple knife switch wired straight to the motor. The "Scrambler", they literally pulled the big power plug to start and stop it - and the pins on the cord showed it.

As a member of the group that hired the carnival, I was cutting us out our share of the profits for the 3-weekend run - but the damage to our finances and reputation would have been much worse had someone gotten killed or seriously injured with our name on the front gate.

Plus, one big claim and we'd never be able to get event liability insurance again.

--<< Bruce >>--

smd4
09-10-2003, 12:26 PM
What is everyone so scared of?

Chances of:

Dying of heart disease: 1 in 384.

Dying in a car crash: 1 in 6,700

Drowning: 1 in 68,000

Dying after clothes catch on fire: 1 in 1.6 million

Drowning in bathtub: 1 in 800,000

Dying from anthrax: 1 in 70 million

Dying from a bee sting: 1 in 6 million

Dying from a fall into a hole: 1 in 2.8 million.

Disneyland “population:” 300 million

Number of deaths since 1955 at DL: 10

Chance of dying at DL : 1 in 30 million.

In other words, you have a better chance of dying from anthrax than dying at DL. So, why aren’t you wearing your gas mask?

RobRoz
09-10-2003, 06:22 PM
the point being that there should be no deaths because of a maintenance issue at Disneyland..... and we all understand that crap happens.......But , not like this ......there is so much money at DL that this should NEVER happen ....and while your at it why dont you go ahead and and forward your little speil to the family of the poor man that die over the weekend..... I bet you would not be on your hi-horse if it was a member of your own Family...I guess you just dont get it

smd4
09-10-2003, 08:35 PM
People fear the wrong things. If you fear rollercoasters because of one tragic death, well, then I believe you're just not being realistic. Why don't you get on the DRR and hope that a boiler explosion doesnt't happen?
there should be no deaths because of a maintenance issue at Disneyland I'm glad that you have all the facts and was able to come to such a definite conclusion that lack of maintenence was the issue. Maybe you should lend your expertise to the EXPERTS who will investigate this matter before making such statements.

I'm certainly NOT being "high-horse." I'm pointing out FACTS concerning risk--the essential topic of your post.

You asked for "Thoughts ??" My "thought" is that you have nothing to fear. That is separate and different from the feelings of sympathy I have for the family of the deceased. And for you to suggest that I'm being insensitive is outrageous. If the post was about expressing sympathy for the family, I would do so. But to ask for thoughts concerning Disney safety, and then lash out because I posted FACTS, is just plain unfair. You set the ground rules; I simply played by them.

So here's my advice: Don't ride any more roller coasters. Don't get in your car. Don't go outside on a rainy day.

Do you think the victim's family will cower as you think folks should? Somehow, I don't think so. I hope they one day ride that ride in DEFIANCE of folks like you.

"spiel" over... :rolleyes:

YellowMan
09-10-2003, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by RobRoz
I bet you would not be on your hi-horse if it was a member of your own Family...I guess you just dont get it Or maybe you don't get it. You were the one who said this stuff wasn't supposed to happen. Guess what? It does (and did) happen. We're all just trying to explain to you that the odds of it happening to you aren't good, so there really isn't a need for you to be so afraid of coasters. I don't think any of us are on a "hi-horse", we're just trying to think logically.

Kuzcotopia
09-10-2003, 10:04 PM
What is everyone so scared of?

Chances of:

Dying of heart disease: 1 in 384.
Not me, I excercize, eat right and have low-blood pressure.

Dying in a car crash: 1 in 6,700
Those odds increase dramatically when you wear a seat belt, follow the law and drive a car that has an excellent crash rating. Mine is the best in its class.

Drowning: 1 in 68,000
I know how to swim, I never swim alone, I never swim anywhere but a pool.

Dying after clothes catch on fire: 1 in 1.6 million
I don't smoke.

Drowning in bathtub: 1 in 800,000
I take showers.

Dying from anthrax: 1 in 70 million
I do not tend sheep for a living. I am not a congressman or a news personality.

Dying from a bee sting: 1 in 6 million
I am not allergic to bee stings.

Dying from a fall into a hole: 1 in 2.8 million.
I watch where I walk.

Chance of dying at DL : 1 in 30 million.

I have visited Disneyland thousands of times in my life.

That alone has increased my risk to 1 in 30,000.

I have ridden Big Thunder over 100 times.

Those other threats I can minimize. I have control over them. I look to Disney to make Big Thunder safer, otherwise I will have to stop riding it.

smd4
09-11-2003, 07:25 AM
That alone has increased my risk to 1 in 30,000. You have a 1 in 117 chance of dying of ANY cause this year. And of course, a 1 in 1 chance of dying, period. I'd say you have a lot more things to be fearful of than your presumed 1 in 30,000 chance of getting killed on BTMRR. But you aren't, right? Because...
Those other threats I can minimize. I have control over them. Wow! you must think you have a lot of control over fate. You can control that 1 in 5,400 chance of dying in an accident other than a motor vehicle this year, huh?

By the way, stating that you have a 1 in 30,000 chance of dying on BTMRR presumes only 30,000 riders have EVER ridden the ride, since opening. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can post more accurate numbers (such as number or riders cycled through per hour), but my conservative estimate based on only 90 riders getting through every 5 minutes, x a conservative 12 hours a day of operation, is 12,960, x 365 days a year x 24 years of operation, which equals 113,529,600. So, your worried about a chance of dying on that ride at 1 in 113 million! That, by the way, is essentially beyond the realm of possibility (you have FAR higher probability of geting killed by lightning (1 in 555,000) or dying or excessive heat (1 in 721,000).

Choose your fears wisely, or refuse to LIVE!

justagrrl
09-11-2003, 07:49 AM
Here's the thing. All the numbers and stat's in the world may not help much.

Fear is unreasonable. It doesn't necessarily follow reason. You can say that it's not likely to happen - and stat's can show that. But when you are in line for the ride, and can picture some terrible event happen, it can make you a little nervous.

Now, I try to push past that. Riding the sun wheel at DCA was fine for me. It's one of my 5 year old's favorites and has been since he was 3. We ride the purple cars because HE knows that's the best ride. I can't help but picture, each and every time, what would happen if a bolt failed or something, the capsule came undone, and we were all plunged into the water with no way to get out. Trapped together, we'd all drown, or die of other injuries. I could deal with that myself, I suppose. But the fear of watching my children die before me, while I was helpless, is a powerful image.

Do we still ride the sunwheel? yes.

Do I think of this EVERY time we go? yes.

Do I have fun? Mixed...sometimes I can get over it - sometimes I feel the need to hold on to the side (like that would do anything) and hold my child's hand (which he immediately withdraws because he's a "big boy" now and wants to ride it and scream scream scream.)

There's a song by Incubus - Drive - that sort of addresses fear. I listened to after 9/11/01 quite a bit and I still find the song oddly inspiring.

Here's a little snippet:

Sometimes I feel the fear of uncertainty stinging clear
And I cant help but ask myself how much I'll let the fear take the wheel and steer
It's driven me before, it seems to have a vague
Haunting mass appeal
Lately I'm beginning to find that I should be the one behind the wheel....





Here's a link to the complete lyrics (http://www.musicsonglyrics.com/I/Incubus/Incubus%20-%20Drive%20lyrics.htm)

Tref
09-11-2003, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by Bruce Bergman
As someone who has blown the whistle on a travelling carnival before, travelling carnivals are an accident waiting to happen. insurance again.

Interesting story, Bruce. I applaud what you did. I don't trust any ride that can be disassembled in five minutes by an ex-convict with an ooney wench.