PDA

View Full Version : Disney's Train Lives! (Long Post)



smd4
09-08-2003, 11:26 AM
With all the talk about poor maintenance issues and the tragic death on the Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, I thought it might be nice to describe an adventure I had on Saturday, related to one of Walt’s “other” train rides—the Santa Fe & Disneyland Railroad.

First, a little history: Back in 1955, there were only two trains on the Disneyland Railroad. The second one, which still plies the rails today, was known then as “Retlaw 2,” and it consisted of stock cars and gondolas, plus the little red caboose. The first train, known as “Retlaw 1,” was a beautiful passenger train, with four coaches, a “combine,” (half passenger, half baggage compartment) and an observation car. The cars were vastly different than the trains at the park today; they did not have bench seating that extended the length of open-sided cars, but they were in fact fully-enclosed passenger coaches.

In the mid ‘60’s, when the Primeval World diorama opened, it was determined that the small windows of these cars did not permit good viewing of the dioramas, and so the train was pulled from the line, seeing only occasional use during inclement weather through the years. In 1975, the observation car, known as “Grand Canyon,” was refurbished as the “Lilly Belle” (which is another story in itself).

The rest of the train was stored in the back of the Roundhouse, until Disney decided that they wanted to add a fifth locomotive. Through a series of not-too-well-thought-out trades, the original passenger train, Retlaw 1, the cars Walt walked through--were traded to a local rail fan named Bill Norred.

In 1998, Norred passed away, and his family decided to get rid of the coaches. They found a buyer in Rob Rossi, a wealthy developer living near San Luis Obispo, CA. The Norred family has retained car No. 101, “Wells Fargo Express,” and it is stored in Southern California, in an old citrus packing house.

The four coaches of the train, No.102 “Navajo Chief,” No. 103 “Colorado Rockies,” No. 104 “Land of Pueblos,” and No. 105 “Painted Desert” were sold to him in 1999, and transported to his ranch in Santa Margarita, CA. Where they still exist today.

Now, on to the story. I am in the process of writing a book on the history of the Disneyland Railroad, and as such I knew I needed to devote a chapter on the rolling stock. A frequent participant in these boards, Laffite, has been assisted me in preparing drawings of all the Disneyland rail equipment, and his work will be on view next year in a Disneyland train retrospective set to be put on by the San Luis Obispo Railroad Museum. Our mutual contacts resulted in us being allowed to view and inspect the cars of Retlaw 1.

Our drive up to SLO on Sat. was uneventful, and we met our contact at the designated meeting location. We followed him up the dirt road to the ranch. Sitting on railroad track, along with several other steam locomotives and other rail equipment, were four large hulks, covered in gray canvas. Both Laffite and I knew what they were.

After obtaining permission to inspect the cars, our host selected a car that lacked a few of the many canvas tie-downs, which would make it easier for us to view the car. We had to settle for viewing only the one car, but since all four were identical, it didn’t matter much. The car we inspected that day was No. 103, “Colorado Rockies.” Our host told us we could spend as much time as we needed clamoring over, under and around the coach, and told us he would be in the shop should we have needed him. We were like two kids in a candy store!

But as this was serious business, we got down to work. We lifted up the canvas and looked upon the old girl, still resplendent in her canary-yellow paint and forest green and Chinese red trim. The letterboard was bereft of the “Santa Fe & Disneyland R.R.” lettering, and the car’s name was changed, but other than that, it was in beautiful condition. The paint was beginning to peel in places, but the color and quality was still very good.

We began to take measurements and photographs for the book and the drawings, a process that took us about an hour. Every major measurement that we could record, we did, so that Laffite’s drawings will be the most accurate available. We crawled under the car, and recorded details of the brake gear and rigging. Then we climbed the ancient steps of the platforms, and slowly opened the arched red door. There was nary a squeak from the brass hinges, dulled by the years of storage. A quick measurement proved that indeed, the doorways were six feet tall, per Walt’s directives.

Slowly we stepped in to the sweltering coach. The canvas covering the car trapped the heat, but we didn’t care. We were in Retlaw 1! A thick layer of dust coated everything, but it was all there: The green naugahyde school bus-style seats, the faux brass trim around the lights, and the school bus latches on the windows. It was wonderful!

We continued to photograph and measure. We counted seats for 48 folks, assuming two people to a seat (and rather small people at that!). We opened and closed the window, and inspected the translucent fiberglass that filled the clerestory windows, which our host pointed out to us before leaving. We looked at the intricate varnished woodwork of the interior, almost like furniture. We closely inspected the stenciling that covered the clerestory roofs. The outer surface of the doors showed the outlines of where brass plates once were screwed on, but what these plates said may be lost to history. We climbed down the steps to look at some of the car’s hardware.

We continued to measure and photograph. I showed Laffite how the couplers operated, and we photographed and measure the trucks, still bearing the “Lovsted” stampings from the manufacturer in Seattle. The dark olive green of the trucks contrasted sharply with the bright red wheels, which still bore the stampings, “Disneyland RR,” even though the railroad wasn’t called by that moniker until 20 years after they were built.

After finishing our measuring and photographing, it was time for one last visit to the car’s interior. We climbed up the platform steps and entered, this time almost reverently. Laffite and I both looked at each other, hardly believing we were here. Laffite looked down at the thick layer of dust on the seat, and said, “I don’t care…I’ve got to do it.” He sat down, and I sat on the seat across from him. We both imagined what it must have been like, riding these wonderful old cars along the Disneyland line. The creaking the cars must have made as they swayed and rolled along. Hearing the happy chatter of children and adults alike as they experienced rail travel from a century ago….

We knew we were finished, and climbed down one last time. Our host helped us tie back down the gray tarp. We thanked our host for the opportunity to visit these relics, and I was glad that the plans were to completely restore them for operation on a small planned railroad on the Ranch, which would be opened to the public. We bid our goodbye’s and left, thankful that we had a chance to view a little history, and ecstatic thinking about our good fortune to be able to get to know one of the Retlaw 1 cars on a personal level!

Andrew
09-08-2003, 11:33 AM
Thanks for posting that excellent account of your experience. I enjoyed reading it very much!

innerSpaceman
09-08-2003, 11:40 AM
Wow. That must have been an awesome experience!

I have often imagined how much more immersive and expressive of the theme it would be to travel the Disneyland rails in those actual passenger coaches, and to heck with the unobstructed views of mostly trees and unused, former petting zoo.

As for the Grand Canyon and Primeval dioramas, despite the limited view through the smallish openings, I actually think these experiences would be enhanced by a view through train windows!

Not Afraid
09-08-2003, 11:46 AM
Ahhhh, what a nice break in a busy day. I felt as if I've been on vacation! Thank you!

justagrrl
09-08-2003, 12:00 PM
What a great post. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing. :)

Cadaverous Pallor
09-08-2003, 06:25 PM
Thank you for a great post! :)

Laffite
09-08-2003, 06:35 PM
Hi Guys,

I have a lot of pictures so I've put them all in a page here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~presirus/retlaw.html

I got the "honor" of untying the final strap that was holding the tarp down (and whoever tied that strap didn't want it to come loose!) so I got to pull the cover off and have the first look. It was an amazing trill to peel that cover off and see the Retlaw I before my eyes. Steve wrote that we were like kids in a candy store and he was right. We crawled around the car like a couple of kids crawling around our fort of pillows under a big cover. It was indeed an adventure. It's unfortunate for those of us who never got to ride these beautiful cars around the perimenter of the Magic Kingdom. It's obvious that Walt loved his trains and he wanted guests to experience the full experience, and be completely immersed in the environment. This quality of showmanship has not been seen since 1995. And while I was there, sitting in a place where guests in the past have sat before, enjoying Walt's creation, I can't help but imagine about the past and wonder about the future of the Retlaw I.

A side note: I came home with several pieces of paint that I've collected on the ground around the car. I now own pieces of Disneyland history! :)

Hope this will give you a break from the gloomy news of the BTMRR.

Preston

MammaSilva
09-08-2003, 06:37 PM
I'd like to add my thanks for sharing such a wonderful story and now I'll be anxious to hear when the book is finished. Hubby worked for Southern Pacific turned into Union Pacific until he medically retired, so we're sort of 'into' trains around here ;)

Tigertail777
09-09-2003, 01:25 AM
wow guys! what a truly awesome post! I enjoyed and savored every word. Not a huge fan of railroads in particular, but anyhting relating to early Disneyland makes me elated. Your detailed descriptions were great, almost like I was there with you. great stuff. Thanks for sharing and making my day a little brighter.:D

smd4
09-09-2003, 07:32 AM
Just a couple of corrections and additions posted by "ashcat" on another site:

The trucks were built by Disney and not Lovsted. Many of the components of the trucks and other parts of the car, such as the couplers, were from Lovsted, but not the entire truck (identical trucks roll under the "Excursion" cars at DL today). The lights in the caboose (and the "Lilly Belle") were stamped from the same tooling as the ones in the coaches. Retlaw one was last used on a rainy day in 1974. It was disliked by train crews by that time as it was slow to load and heavy to pull (as is Holiday 2). When the cars were hauled away in the early 90s they were still lettered for SF&D. The car names were painted on the sides, not on seperate letter boards as they now appear to be.

Thanks, ashcat!

UncleGDogWord
09-09-2003, 10:36 AM
That was a wonderful story and the pictures were amazing! It really wonderful to see an artifact like that still in a reasonable condition and not distroyed by the tear down or refabbed.

Thank you so much for that wonderful essay.

Tigertail777
09-09-2003, 12:17 PM
you know Laffite when I saw yer picture essay and saw the interior of the car I was struck with dejavu.. I had seen that interior before (or something very close). Then I remembered our restored trolly car that runs downtown here in Portland Oregon... it looks almost exactly the same, except the seats are wicker, and glass windows above (the small ones way above) are frosted with designs on them. But other than that its almost identical even the designs on the wood look the same to me. I can't remember the history of our trolly precisely but I beleive it was made around the turn of the century, if you ever come to Portland I am sure you would get a big kick out of riding it: it looks almost brand new now, and the conductors wear vintage outfits. And because it only goes a short distance downtown I think its free, at least it was when I rode it. And at chrismas they decorate it with christmas lights. Just something I thought you would like to know being a railway buff. Oh and I am not sure, but I think ours was made in seattle, at least part of it anyways.

Laffite
09-09-2003, 01:35 PM
Tigertail,

The passenger cars were modeled with the turn of the century style! This just shows how much Walt paid attention to the details, as you saw for yourself! ;)

Laffite
09-09-2003, 05:00 PM
Here is an old postcard of the Retlaw I

http://ot.cupofnoodles.com/override.php/retlaw1.jpg

JCLowesman
09-09-2003, 08:14 PM
Thank you SOOOO much for that trip into the past!

That car is just like I remembered it.

To maybe solve the mystery of the missing plates, were they rectangular, about 3x5", and about chin high for a normal adult? If so, they were probably something that would be very politically correct today. The plates would have been deeply engraved in "Railroad Roman" type with the words "No Smoking, Please" filled in red, with SF & DLRR in smaller type below.

Please let us all know when the book is ready. I missed the Brogge book, I don't intend to miss this one.:fez: