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jcruise86
05-31-2013, 04:38 AM
:geek:
It's not just going on at Disney World.
The two guides in this Today investigation should not be let into Disneyland.

In parties of four or more, the disabled person and a family member
should wait in the front of the line
and meet up with the rest of their group
after the others go through the regular or the Fastpass line. Then they can meet up at the front of the line to ride together. And those going through the line should get Fastpasses the way other guests get them.

I read that this system of waiting in front while others go through the regular line works fine at a Six Flags park.

Here's a link:

http://www.today.com/news/undercover-disney-deplorable-scheme-skip-lines-6C10131266

monkeyboy
05-31-2013, 05:23 AM
Looking on the Orange County Craigslist I found several advertising this sort of service, including this guy who out and out says he's using his AP and GAP for this:

" Make the most of your Disney Trip! (Disneyland Resort Anaheim, CA.)
Really enjoy your time at Disneyland and California Adventure!
A tour guide during your Disneyland trip will be so much more fun!
I'm a longtime fan of the Happiest Place on Earth, been going there for many years as an annual pass-holder with a Disabled Guest Assistance Pass. I can take you, your friends and/or family of parties of five or less taking in the attractions with access to all Fastpass lines or special entrances.
Additionally, when paying by cash your party may take advantage of my annual pass discount for meals and souvenirs, including purchases in Downtown Disney. I'm bilingual in English and Spanish, and could also share Disney trivia with your party.
The Disney Resort charges hundreds of dollars an hour for similar services. My fees are a flat $300.00 for both Parks all day! If you and your group only require my services for a few hours that can also be arranged for a nominal fee.
I am a 63 year old retired male (father of 3 sons and 2 daughters) that loves to interact with people.
I don't get tired easy and I'm used to walking both of the Disney Parks for 8 to 10 hours per day. The only thing left to do is contact me via E-Mail and let's get started planning a wonderful Disney Day!
Summer is coming and the lines will be huge, however, with your friendly tour guide your hours at the park will be filled with riding the rides instead of standing in line.
Location: Disneyland Resort Anaheim, CA."

MammaSilva
05-31-2013, 05:30 AM
Wow, I will say that I saw a few things that I'd say were done for 'effect' cuz I've never ever seen the Pirates HCA line be a walk on. Most of the time the wait is longer than standby but that doesn't negate the fact that those people are abusing a system designed by Disney to give families like mine the opportunity to enjoy the resort with our families.

LdyApxr
05-31-2013, 05:31 AM
This is despicable IMO and these people need to be punished including the people that are paying for this "service". I just spent 4 days in the park in a wheelchair(sprained ankle right before our trip) and I was stunned by the people who were talking about renting wheelchairs in order to skip lines. Take it from me, a wheelchair is not fun in either park since some people do not think you exist if you are not at eye level and trying to keep my ankle from being jammed into by adults and children was no fun at all.

Malcon10t
05-31-2013, 06:57 AM
Just watched this. I am more blown away at what the Today show considered "lines." The lines at Tea Cups? Once cycle. 10 mins at MOST. The bypassing the line at POTC? If you slo-mo the show, you see about a 20 min wait on the inside of the building for the HA ride, they did NOT walk on. And judging by what they showed of the regular line? It was 10 mins. I am very glad Disney is going to look into it. I was expecting worse. They made it sound worse. But if you do DIsneyland a lot, looking at what is happening, you know 1. It isn't that busy and 2. the HA they are describing is off. I saw the GAC stamp. On Autopia, they stay in the same line as everyone else. The shadows showed the rode in the morning, they "walked on", yep in APril/May, rides are walk on TO EVERYONE. The Star Tours? You stay in the regular line outside til you approach the building, then enter that door. So, basically, there was no line outside the building.

Seriously, much ado about nothing.

MickeyDogMom
05-31-2013, 07:04 AM
After watching the clip I have to raise an eyebrow. Yes, it COULD seem like you get straight to the "front" of the line but to the ones that know what lines look like know the problem with this.

*The teacup line they showed was only the wait of one spin, they MIGHT have got on one turn early.
*I will give them Indiana Jones if they went at a bad time but I find the FP line at Indy so much faster. In the HC line you have to wait on the inside in the side queue, they didn't show that.
*The PoTC line was a joke I'm sure. They didn't show the line outside and the line they filmed outside was a "short" line.
*I don't know how the Star Tours line worked like that. I've never gone that way on Star Tours but to be on THAT end, you have to go through the outside line.
*Autopia... uh, you split after you've done the upper line. You only stop before heading down the stairs! That's the only difference.

Anybody else notice they didn't show rides where the HC pass makes it longer? Like IASW? Matterhorn? Haunted Mansion? And did not show DCA?

jcruise86
05-31-2013, 07:58 AM
The lines may be short now, but they'll be long this summer
so calling attention to this now should give Disneyland's and Walt Disney World's leadership
time to address this problem before longer lines make these businesses seem even more obnoxious in July and August.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't have any confidence that George Kalogridis, Thomas Staggs and Michael Colglazier
will do anything other than issue statements just hoping this will blow over.

I expect this to be another broken Yeti.

snoopyfink
05-31-2013, 08:52 AM
Just watched this. I am more blown away at what the Today show considered "lines." The lines at Tea Cups? Once cycle. 10 mins at MOST. The bypassing the line at POTC? If you slo-mo the show, you see about a 20 min wait on the inside of the building for the HA ride, they did NOT walk on. And judging by what they showed of the regular line? It was 10 mins. I am very glad Disney is going to look into it. I was expecting worse. They made it sound worse. But if you do DIsneyland a lot, looking at what is happening, you know 1. It isn't that busy and 2. the HA they are describing is off. I saw the GAC stamp. On Autopia, they stay in the same line as everyone else. The shadows showed the rode in the morning, they "walked on", yep in APril/May, rides are walk on TO EVERYONE. The Star Tours? You stay in the regular line outside til you approach the building, then enter that door. So, basically, there was no line outside the building.

Seriously, much ado about nothing.

I respectfully disagree. Regardless of what wait times can be in the HA lines versus standby, this is blatant abuse of a system designed for a subset of Disney guests that, as others have mentioned in discussion of this issue, would no doubt rather be healthy than have a condition that necessitates them having a GAC pass. If everyone that had a GAC pass abused the system in this way, the sometimes longer wait times you describe would be even worse.

However, what troubles me more about this story is the complete lack of a moral compass that these two "tour guides" and their customers (not the ones in the story, as they were the Today show's family being used to tell the story) must possess. Gaining access to the HA lines is not a "privilege," it's, as I stated above, a most likely unfortunate necessity for some families and individuals. Thankfully Disney can offer this access as a way for guests of all abilities to enjoy as many attractions as possible--by turning this pass into a "golden ticket" and profiting off of it, they legitimize it as a "privilege" and those that choose to pay these tour guides are teaching their children (if applicable) that if you have money and are willing to compromise your character, you can "get ahead" of those that don't or aren't.

Is this the biggest issue facing us a general population today? Of course not, but I think it strikes a chord with people as particularly "sinister" and "deplorable" because Disney Parks are a place to celebrate the happy, the good and the innocent in all of us--the best of the human spirit--and a practice like this is the exact opposite of all this.

snoopyfink
05-31-2013, 08:53 AM
Wow, I will say that I saw a few things that I'd say were done for 'effect' cuz I've never ever seen the Pirates HCA line be a walk on. Most of the time the wait is longer than standby but that doesn't negate the fact that those people are abusing a system designed by Disney to give families like mine the opportunity to enjoy the resort with our families.

Agreed. Regardless of whether or not these "guided" guests are getting a true advantage, it's blatant abuse of system not intended for them.

ManaByte
05-31-2013, 09:26 AM
Disney could curb this immediately if they treated GAC cards like the swap passes for the parents.

Swap pass allows one parent to go through the line with one kid while the other waits outside with the baby.

Change GAC to one additional person and you'd curb this big time.

MammaSilva
05-31-2013, 09:33 AM
It would also totally eliminate families experiencing the park as a family which is why they are allowing 6 max per group. While I agree the abuse is morally reprehensible the program is based on real need for families like mine and Mals and several others here on the pad. None of us would dream of behaving the way those people are but in this world if there is a way to manipulate a program intended to make things nicer/better for the disabled there will be those who find the loopholes and exploit them. In my situation if they limited it to 2 then I have to try and deal with my own issues and my daughters without the assistance of a mothers helper who could be anyone from her brother from another mother, her babies, our own Santa Ron...the list is long but not once in all her visits have we ever solicited guests to 'skip a line' with us for fun or profit!

Malcon10t
05-31-2013, 09:47 AM
[COLOR="#000000"][COLOR="#000000"]The lines may be short now, but they'll be long this summerAnd the lines for the HA queue will be EVEN longer....

Here is the "front of the line" GAC line for Pirates during a busy day at the park. The standby line was 90 mins. This line is at least 2 hours.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/480541_10200211214273457_602751995_n.jpg

Malcon10t
05-31-2013, 09:49 AM
Regardless of what wait times can be in the HA lines versus standby, this is blatant abuse of a system designed for a subset of Disney guests that, as others have mentioned in discussion of this issue, would no doubt rather be healthy than have a condition that necessitates them having a GAC pass. If everyone that had a GAC pass abused the system in this way, the sometimes longer wait times you describe would be even worse.

However, what troubles me more about this story is the complete lack of a moral compass that these two "tour guides" and their customers (not the ones in the story, as they were the Today show's family being used to tell the story) must possess. Gaining access to the HA lines is not a "privilege," it's, as I stated above, a most likely unfortunate necessity for some families and individuals. Thankfully Disney can offer this access as a way for guests of all abilities to enjoy as many attractions as possible--by turning this pass into a "golden ticket" and profiting off of it, they legitimize it as a "privilege" and those that choose to pay these tour guides are teaching their children (if applicable) that if you have money and are willing to compromise your character, you can "get ahead" of those that don't or aren't.

Is this the biggest issue facing us a general population today? Of course not, but I think it strikes a chord with people as particularly "sinister" and "deplorable" because Disney Parks are a place to celebrate the happy, the good and the innocent in all of us--the best of the human spirit--and a practice like this is the exact opposite of all this.I agree with you on this point.

My real problem is the Today show just continued the myth, and more people will try it.

Malcon10t
05-31-2013, 09:51 AM
Disney could curb this immediately if they treated GAC cards like the swap passes for the parents.

Swap pass allows one parent to go through the line with one kid while the other waits outside with the baby.

Change GAC to one additional person and you'd curb this big time.So, my DIL, son, and I take my granddaughter to the park, who waits with me? Does my son miss his baby going on her rides? Do I miss seeing my granddaughter ride Dumbo her first time? Disney knows to keep the family together.

Here is the thing with me... I don't ride most of the coasters. So my kids use FPs for most of the rides. The few times I do ride, they always complain how much longer it takes. Heck, even Pirates I do the standby. I will go with my daughters where the join the line, make sure the people around them know I will be joining, then I go wait up by Royal St Veranda, where I join them when they reach that point. So much faster than the HA line.

Iceman
05-31-2013, 09:54 AM
It would also totally eliminate families experiencing the park as a family which is why they are allowing 6 max per group.

First, it wouldn't "totally eliminate families experiencing the park as a family" because it would only be for time in line.

But if it's good enough for baby swap (only one additional guest gets to ride with the "swapper"), and doesn't ruin their family experience, why is it not good enough for families with someone who's handicapped?

Finally, as the previous poster pointed out, this simple policy change would instantly stop the practice of faking disabilities, unethical tour guides selling their services, etc. I have to think that the overall experience for the truly disabled could only be improved by eliminating the cheaters, and this method of making it like the baby swap is a fair and easy way to do it.

Cyette
05-31-2013, 10:04 AM
Looking on the Orange County Craigslist I found several advertising this sort of service, including this guy who out and out says he's using his AP and GAP for this:

" Make the most of your Disney Trip! (Disneyland Resort Anaheim, CA.)
Really enjoy your time at Disneyland and California Adventure!
A tour guide during your Disneyland trip will be so much more fun!
I'm a longtime fan of the Happiest Place on Earth, been going there for many years as an annual pass-holder with a Disabled Guest Assistance Pass. I can take you, your friends and/or family of parties of five or less taking in the attractions with access to all Fastpass lines or special entrances.
Additionally, when paying by cash your party may take advantage of my annual pass discount for meals and souvenirs, including purchases in Downtown Disney. I'm bilingual in English and Spanish, and could also share Disney trivia with your party.
The Disney Resort charges hundreds of dollars an hour for similar services. My fees are a flat $300.00 for both Parks all day! If you and your group only require my services for a few hours that can also be arranged for a nominal fee.
I am a 63 year old retired male (father of 3 sons and 2 daughters) that loves to interact with people.
I don't get tired easy and I'm used to walking both of the Disney Parks for 8 to 10 hours per day. The only thing left to do is contact me via E-Mail and let's get started planning a wonderful Disney Day!
Summer is coming and the lines will be huge, however, with your friendly tour guide your hours at the park will be filled with riding the rides instead of standing in line.
Location: Disneyland Resort Anaheim, CA."


Amazing. Just out there, in the open, with a very skewed moral compass....

Here is the end of the Today show article:

By the way, we also called the American Association of People with Disabilities. They agree with Disney that this practice is abusive and should be stopped.

Here is the full statement from Disney:

"We find it deplorable that people would hire the disabled to abuse accommodations that were designed to permit our guests with disabilities to enjoy their time in our parks. We have initiated a review of this abuse and will take appropriate steps to deter this type of unacceptable activity."

Here is the full statement from Mark Perriello, president and CEO of the American Association of People with Disabilities:

“No one likes waiting in long lines, but exploiting people with disabilities in order to skip to the front is disgraceful.

"While Disney must move swiftly to train their employees to recognize and stop this abuse, it’s important to note that Disney has a great track record on accommodating people with disabilities. It’s disturbing that nondisabled visitors would take advantage of these accommodations. This situation goes to show that money may buy a lot, but apparently civility and respect are not among those things.”

pixar
05-31-2013, 10:09 AM
But if it's good enough for baby swap (only one additional guest gets to ride with the "swapper"), and doesn't ruin their family experience, why is it not good enough for families with someone who's handicapped?


The difference is that the family with the swap pass wouldn't be riding together anyway because someone has to stay with the baby.

LdyApxr
05-31-2013, 10:25 AM
I do want to add something though. When we were there this past weekend(on the holiday no less), I felt bad because I had to go in the wheelchair and while I could transfer, it was a slow process and I had my husband, our 14yr old son and our nephews 9 and 13 but I felt bad because I had to take them all in the HA line. Why? Neither of my nephews could be trusted out of my vision. This became apparent to us at the Oakland airport and got worse as the weekend went on. I couldn't trust the older one to go in the bathroom even when we were RIGHT OUTSIDE the door because he vandalized the automatic papertowel dispenser! I sincerely hope that Disney follows through with what they told him they were going to do(send his father the bill for the repair) but it stopped me from allowing my own son to have his freedom because I couldn't trust the younger two not to destroy stuff, steal stuff, or disrupt others on their vacations so while I disliked that I had to say "Five" when they asked how many in my group, it was either that or ride nothing at all. I think if the kids are trustable(my son is, those two are not) then they can wait in the line and I intercept them when they get to the front of the standby. That would not have bothered me at all except I could not with those two. Being in a wheelchair at Disneyland was not fun but it was only made worse by the company I was in.

ManaByte
05-31-2013, 10:28 AM
Also the guy in the video who wouldn't disclose his disability is likely one of those people who abused the GAC program in the first place and just used the "trigger words" they need to get a card from CMs.

The amount of GAC abuse I saw last Friday while my friend was getting a birthday button made me want to punch someone in the face.

These two girls (who had to be 13 or 14) went through the GAC line and came out giggling and jumping up and down because they "could skip all the lines!" as they said, and then they got in the line for the buttons. They ended up in our row on Star Tours and they were still talking to each other how great their day would be since they got the special pass. They're lucky they were able to walk off that ride, I was so pissed.

LdyApxr
05-31-2013, 10:45 AM
Also the guy in the video who wouldn't disclose his disability is likely one of those people who abused the GAC program in the first place and just used the "trigger words" they need to get a card from CMs.

The amount of GAC abuse I saw last Friday while my friend was getting a birthday button made me want to punch someone in the face.

These two girls (who had to be 13 or 14) went through the GAC line and came out giggling and jumping up and down because they "could skip all the lines!" as they said, and then they got in the line for the buttons. They ended up in our row on Star Tours and they were still talking to each other how great their day would be since they got the special pass. They're lucky they were able to walk off that ride, I was so pissed.

Yep, I would be pissed too! We had some of that in the HA lines too and it upset me and my family(well my son and husband) and my son wondered why they would brag about when CM's could hear them.

Also, when I worked in Pediatrics, there were parents who would ask our doctors to write medical notes for their HEALTHY kids because they were going to DL/WDW and our doctors always refused. These were healthy kids but the parents wanted to have special privileges. That was so disgusting to me and all my coworkers since we knew other patients much sicker and honestly handicapped were not asking for those things.

SigalTchelet
05-31-2013, 10:51 AM
Yep, I would be pissed too! We had some of that in the HA lines too and it upset me and my family(well my son and husband) and my son wondered why they would brag about when CM's could hear them.

UGH-disgusting. Not fair for those of us really handicapped. I would have been tempted to run over their toes with my power chair, to give them a feel f what it is like ti be handicapped. ;)

So sorry to hear you ended up in a wheelchair for your cruise-hope you heal quickly! So sorrty your nephews misbehaved after all you did to take them with you!

LdyApxr
05-31-2013, 10:53 AM
UGH-disgusting. Not fair for those of us really handicapped. I would have been tempted to run over their toes with my power chair, to give them a feel f what it is like ti be handicapped. ;)

I would have too but I was in a manual wheelchair with hubby pushing and I was trying my best to NOT have him run my foot/foot rests into people's ankles. LOL He isn't used to me being in a chair and was not realizing that my feet were a couple of feet in front of me.

SigalTchelet
05-31-2013, 10:57 AM
I would have too but I was in a manual wheelchair with hubby pushing and I was trying my best to NOT have him run my foot/foot rests into people's ankles. LOL He isn't used to me being in a chair and was not realizing that my feet were a couple of feet in front of me.

I understand-I sometimes use a manual chair too. Either way you don't want to run over people's toes. Before, when I went to DL, I rented a scooter ad it's hard when people walk in front of you.

AnotherJenny
05-31-2013, 11:13 AM
I would have been tempted to run over their toes with my power chair, to give them a feel f what it is like ti be handicapped. ;)


I don't think it is funny to even joke about that. Using a scooter does not entitle anyone to enforce their own code of discipline or punishment over other guests. That type of attitude and behavior on the scooter users' behalf is exactly why other guests show a lack of respect. My friend almost lost her her foot just above the ankle because someone in an motorized wheelchair decided to plow through a line of people on the sidewalk waiting for an ATM instead of just saying "excuse me." It later turned out that the wheelchair user had done it before, they felt entitled to the sidewalk and was angry at the ATM operator because of the lines, so she felt justified in disabling someone else.

jcruise86
05-31-2013, 11:27 AM
. . . Here is the full statement from Mark Perriello, president and CEO of the American Association of People with Disabilities:

“No one likes waiting in long lines, but exploiting people with disabilities in order to skip to the front is disgraceful.

"While Disney must move swiftly to train their employees to recognize and stop this abuse, it’s important to note that Disney has a great track record on accommodating people with disabilities. It’s disturbing that nondisabled visitors would take advantage of these accommodations. This situation goes to show that money may buy a lot, but apparently civility and respect are not among those things.”
:cool:Mark Perriello is cool.
(I'm basing this on one quote. :fez:)

Thanks, Cyette!