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View Full Version : Hostility to DCA, and to other things



hbquikcomjamesl
08-30-2001, 12:33 PM
Also, we try to discourage comparisons/discussions of other sites. They have their discussion boards, we have ours.


In this case, though, it seems rather justified. Because the hostility I see towards DCA, and towards the MSEP's appearance in DCA, and its possible return to Disneyland, and to Light Magic, long after it went bye-bye, is a lot like a whole lot of hostility I'm seeing elsewhere. I'll be brief, at least about outside discussions.

Simon and Schuster has a Star Trek discussion board. Mainly about books, of course, also the TV and movie series, and Enterprise has been a hot topic lately, with quite a few people condemning it when the debut is still nearly a month away. And many who are partial to only one or two particular flavors of Star Trek often condemn the ones they don't personally care for.

And bringing things a bit closer to home, consider Disney Hall, under construction at the Music Center in Los Angeles, its decidedly unconventional architecture, and the equally unconventional organ being built for it. You go through PIPORG-L, and every so often, a big argument flares up, with people (some of whom don't realize that the hall was named because Walt's widow paid for a big piece of it, not because it has anything to do with any of the Disney companies) expressing extreme hostility to the design, based on nothing but pictures and models, and with no way of knowing what the hall, or the organ, will sound like when completed.

Hostility of this sort, whether it's here or elsewhere on the Internet, doesn't serve any useful purpose. Unless criticism is constructive, i.e., it suggests how to make something better, or resolve a problem, it's DEstructive.

And here's an example of some constructive criticism: The Disney management needs to acknowledge that DCA has its share of problems, and a few "attractions" that are outright embarrassments (Mulholland Madness, the Mission Tortilla exhibit, Superstar Lemon, and Waste of Time all come to mind), and that it's still its infancy, they need to extend the reduced admission price until the park matures a bit, and offer it to everybody, instead of just local residents, and they need to offer an inexpensive "one-day park-hopper" ticket, say around $55-65.

Another example: The CircleVision Theatre needs to be put back into service as soon as possible, preferably with rotating shows of all available CircleVision movies (including Timekeeper, as soon as the animatronics can be built). Say, O Canada on Monday, America the Beautiful on Tuesday and Wednesday, Wonders of China on Thursday, American Journeys on Friday and Saturday Morning, and Timekeeper on Saturday Afternoon and Sunday. The Peoplemover track can be put back into service at some future time, preferably with something that doesn't require an enormous queueing area.

Nigel2
08-30-2001, 12:46 PM
How could they do Time Keeper and rotate all the other films in? Since I am guessing that all the "stuff" for the show would take a lot of work to disconnect. When I was at WDW TK was under rehab for the time, so I don't know if Robin Willam's anamatroinc ( I dont know his name so he will be called Robin or Bernie to me) and Canada hates their movie since its so dated, China is also dated, I dont think I would want the peoplemover back the way it was, mabey if it were a little faster, and had more to look at along the huge gaps in the scenery over fantasyland. If I rember correctly (I apologize if I am wrong) the guy who runs "Yesterland" told me afew years ago that if an attraction is taken out perminantly from DLR it will never return in the form it was at when it left, so they would probably have to alter it all, but TK. Then again they have been lying lately. It would be cool to see, how about the PM track be turned into a buzzlightyear style attraction, possibly like the ranger spin, but the guns would be a problem.

hbquikcomjamesl
09-04-2001, 09:56 AM
How could they do Time Keeper and rotate all the other films in? Since I am guessing that all the "stuff" for the show would take a lot of work to disconnect.


I saw Timekeeper back in November, and found it one of the highlights in a trip that was (because of time constraints) pretty much nothing but highlights (except for a couple of hours spent at the Contemporary, finding the business services center so I could check my email and weed out the spam, and the time I spent on the "Mexico" ride). It seems to me that even if Timekeeper (that's his name) and 9-Eye (an allusion to the 9-lensed Circlevision camera platform) couldn't simply be put on casters and wheeled in and out of the hall, deactivating them for the other CircleVision films would really just be a matter, at the crudest level, of pulling a circuit breaker.

But the whole point of the thread is that while constructive criticism can be useful, outright hostility, and a conscious decision to take offense at things, or to refuse to have fun, isn't.

Nigel2
09-04-2001, 11:40 AM
Hmmm then it might work. They would probably need to develop a new form of AA, that could be removed from sight for different shows. But it could also retract into the floor if needed. Casters might not work since they make it easy to move, and TK probably has a lot of force behind his movements, so the casters might need to be retractable. Oh well, it would be nice to see the theater used for somthing like that.

hbquikcomjamesl
09-04-2001, 01:18 PM
Actually (if I remember right), at WDW, all you see at WDW/MK that's Timekeeper-specific when you enter the theatre are a couple of large, featureless boxes near the front screens. Timekeeper and 9-Eye rise up out of the boxes. So for ATB, AJ,. WOC, and OC, the boxes could simply sit there, if they couldn't be easily rolled in and out.

Morrigoon
09-04-2001, 09:57 PM
Simple solution to the casters problem, and cheaper than retracting casters: legs on the platform that can be cranked down (think like the top part of a tripod) until the casters are literally lifted off the floor. For stability, they could add as many as they needed.

Honestly I think it's only an unwillingness on Pressler's part to admit that he (and other Disney mgmt) were wrong, that prevents them from putting back existing attractions that worked. I for one, would LOVE to have the Peoplemover back. It was a great way to relax for 20 minutes while feeling like you're still doing something. I think with today's technology they could make the system more reliable too, which I believe was one of its problems. Mass transportation is still a good idea, as any victim of rush hour traffic would agree. Thing is, we still don't use it, so it's still the choice of the FUTURE. It's not outdated in that sense. Circlevision may be outdated, but it's a great chance for guests too rest and cool off during the day. I think it could be made better by removing the bars from the Rocket Rods queue and adding post-drilled swivel chairs. It would leave guests free to look anywhere, but remove the burden of standing, which would make it even more appealing for guests. If they reconfigured the doorways better (by adding curtains and a couple light-blocking walls), it could be left running on a loop all day, and require no more staffing than the ODV coke cart (a nod to the bottom line). They could even advertise the spot as a "cool rest area" with entertainment. Remember those great benches they used to have in the waiting and exit areas? The big square ones with no backs? That was one of my favorite spots to rest for 20 minutes or so on a hot crowded day.

For goodness' sake, adding circlevision back would be a >>>CHEAP<<< way to add another attraction back to Tomorrowland. Once the favorite land of preteens everywhere, it remains a mere shell of its former self. A ghost town, standing in memory of the hopes we once had for our future and the future of a once magic kingdom. Hey, that'd be a KILLER sig line!

JRob2k1
09-04-2001, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Morrigoon
Once the favorite land of preteens everywhere, it remains a mere shell of its former self. A ghost town, standing in memory of the hopes we once had for our future and the future of a once magic kingdom.

Well said!! By the way, nice sig....

-JRob

hbquikcomjamesl
09-05-2001, 04:06 PM
I just now remember who Al's commentary reminds me of:

Dick Button.

Not the actively competing Dick Button who landed the first triple in competition;
not the enthusiastic Dick Button of the Dorothy Hamill era;

The bitter old-fart Dick Button who dumps on every skater there currently competing.

What I've read on MousePad about the "Millionaire" attraction has been universally enthusiastic; all Al does is complain about how the place looks like a real production set. He hasn't said a word about the Car Toon Spin redesign, even though it's been open for a few weeks now. Hell, even the Mission Tortilla Embarrassment and Superstar Limo have found audiences, but Al hasn't noticed, in his determination not to like anything at DCA, and his envy of Tokyo DisneySea.

Gregmh48
09-05-2001, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by hbquikcomjamesl
He hasn't said a word about the Car Toon Spin redesign, even though it's been open for a few weeks now.


Actually I seem to remember him talking about it and saying that the entry doors are too small to fit into.

Nigel2
09-05-2001, 09:30 PM
Seriously they could basically open CV up the next day if they watned probably. Since all the lighbulbs are still in that colored light thing that sits in the center of the celing and colors the screne between shows. And odds are they were feeling cheap with the quee area so the projectors are all still the same old ones, not digital. All they would have to do is clean the old films, and take down the chains and they technically could have the attraction back to its old form, just with a new floor, and no bars to lean on.

hbquikcomjamesl
09-10-2001, 10:19 AM
When I read Al's rather vitriolic remark about "Everything (and I repeat, everything) is simply scaffolding - from top to bottom," I was expecting either the sort of knockdown alumnum scaffolds used by paint crews, or the bolt-together steel scaffolding that was used before the aluminum stuff was invented (or for semi-permanent installations, like the speaker towers at Hollywood Bowl).

I caught last evening's last performance.

The reality:

The seating risers look like what gets installed at, say, the Forum or the Pond, when a traveling ice show is in town, between the permanent seating and the ice surface. And the set looks like a real set in a real television studio, except that the real thing in New York might be a bit less substantial (and sets that are used only by trained professionals are often considerably less so, unless they're expected to need to hold up for a seven-year series run).

In short, Al blasted the attraction for being as realistic as possible.

I think the others who have contributed to MousePad have given a somewhat more reasonable assessment of the attraction, and I think this experience simply confirms that some people are simply determined not to like DCA, and to do everything they can to make it the failure they claim it is, until it gets bulldozed and replaced with an exact duplicate of Tokyo Disney Sea.

On another note, last evening's performance of The Parade was simply the best one I've seen since the November 1996 Encore. Cinderella's pumpkin (which was conspicuously absent the last time I was there, and evidently for more than just that one evening) is back, and the general feeling of The Parade is one of the bugs (except for a flag dancer's jacket going dark in mid-Parade) having been ironed out, and the CMs showing lots of enthusiasm. (Also, no attempt was made to cut off the "tail"; I was able to follow it from Sunshine Plaza all the way to the Paradise Pier gate, for the first time since July 3rd.)

Also, even though the Southern California discount at DCA has expired, the crowd didn't seem especially thin, and no thinner than what I saw in DL, when I park-hopped (during the wait for Millionaire) to get a quick first look at the new exhibit in Innoventions.

Also, incidentally, I really don't understand the hostility to Parade of the Stars. Sure, it's no MSEP, but neither is it "Flights of Fantasy," nor the Donald Duck parade. It's a cute idea, and one of these days, I'm probably going to try and get in it myself.