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Tinkerbell737
08-18-2003, 01:31 PM
Upon entering the Disneyland Park yesterday morning at 9am, I was flabbergasted to see the line of people pouring out of City Hall. Many of whom were grumbling and anxious to register their complaints. The park had only been open an hour!!

We met up with friends who had been at Disneyland since the park opening and said they had heard a lot of people grumbling about one thing or another and threatening to go to Guest Relations.

How can things be THIS BAD?

While I was appalled to see how many people had already been fed up enough to stand in line, I was also glad for it. Maybe those people working in conjunction will make a difference. Eventually, those in charge HAVE to stand back and take notice... when the complaint line is longer than the ride queues at 9am, something is wrong!!

I have sent many messages (it's so easy from Disneyland.com) to Guest Relations regarding my findings. Things from unsanitary restrooms and cast members using foul language is unacceptable, and I wanted to make sure that everyone at TDA knows it - and they have my letter in writing to remind them.

I propose that everyone who posts a suggestion here on MousePad also take the time to shoot an email to Guest Relations - or better yet, to the execs who have the power to make changes.

I, personally, am an annual passholder and I know that makes me just a tick higher than the scum on the Snow White statues ;) in the eyes of most CMs, but I want them to know that I let them know what is wrong (and what is right!) with the parks because I care . I care enough to have made an investment in an AP. I care enough to be upset that paint is peeling and rides are in disrepair. It's true that some of the items that are pointed out by APs won't destoy the vacation of a casual visitor... but it still makes for poor show and kills the "Disney Magic."

I plan to draft my own letters soon... I would like to thank them for listening to guest complaints and reinstating the price tags at the Blue Ribbon Bakery and I would like to ask that they re-think the onslaught of outdoor vending carts. Maybe if we stand together, the execs will take notice?

scaeagles
08-18-2003, 02:23 PM
Wow - that's completely opposite of the experience I had in late July. In 5 days at DLR, I never had to deal with one rude cast member, overheard anything inappropriate said by any CM, and I never heard any grumbling from anyone I stood next to in anyline. In fact, everyone seemed happy. I didn't happen to notice if people were streaming out of city hall.

PapiBear
08-18-2003, 02:44 PM
Maybe they'll need to start implementing FastPass at City Hall just to handle the long lines. :D

Best way to get the execs to take notice, in addition to CONSTANT verbal and written complaints -- STAY AWAY from Disneyland and encourage others to do the same. If attendance is off, they'll start to ask "why?" and all those letters and verbal complaints will suddenly be paid attention to. The simple fact of the matter is that, unless they prove to us otherwise, the execs running the resorts simply DO NOT CARE about Walt Disney's legacy, nor about ANYTHING but making the bottom line shine and sparkle for the SHAREHOLDERS. They are in the business of show, but they concentrate on the business, and less and less and less on the show. It's a malaise that pervades Hollywood (and the Walt Disney Company is very definitely a part of Hollywood). Walt knew when it was important to concentrate on business, but 9 times out of 10 did what he did because it was right for the SHOW. What do we have to take up the reigns? People with MBAs and marketing degrees. People who wouldn't know the first damn thing about satisfying an audience.

No, the ONLY way to make sure that there's the right amount of change at Disney is to buy as much Disney stock as possible, then keep buying more and more and more, until you become a majority shareholder. THEN they will listen to you, because it's that shareholder who keeps the suits employed.

Lani
08-18-2003, 02:54 PM
My suggestion is that you consider printing a sincere and polite letter on paper and mailing it to them. Email is the most convenient, but it is also generally the stuff that gets ignored easily.

BTW, what did the guests seem to be complaining about?

PapiBear
08-18-2003, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Lani
My suggestion is that you consider printing a sincere and polite letter on paper and mailing it to them.

Then again, there's the notion that we could just meet en masse in the Sheraton Anaheim parking lot at 3 am some winter night, drive up to Burbank in a caravan, knock out the guards at the Studio gate, and then, bearing torches and hounds, seize Eisner in his office before he's had his morning coffee, and hang him by the neck from the Water Tower. Think the Board of Directors would listen to us THEN? ;)

3894
08-18-2003, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by PapiBear

No, the ONLY way to make sure that there's the right amount of change at Disney is to buy as much Disney stock as possible, then keep buying more and more and more, until you become a majority shareholder. THEN they will listen to you, because it's that shareholder who keeps the suits employed.

For argument's sake, let's say that I don't want to tie up my money in unprofitable Disney stock or that I just don't have the money to invest.

Then what? Go to the gates of Disneyland. See the sights. Smell the smells. Listen to the sounds. Think about what is set in motion if you go in - you have given current management permission to keep on keepin' on. But if you turn and walk away? If enough people turn and walk away? Refuse to spend one more dime at Disneyland until (fill in the blank)?

Think about it.

Disneyphile
08-18-2003, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by PapiBear
Then again, there's the notion that we could just meet en masse in the Sheraton Anaheim parking lot at 3 am some winter night, drive up to Burbank in a caravan, knock out the guards at the Studio gate, and then, bearing torches and hounds, seize Eisner in his office before he's had his morning coffee, and hang him by the neck from the Water Tower. Think the Board of Directors would listen to us THEN? ;)

No, no, no. We originally planned to rendevous at the HoJo, not the Sheraton.;)

PapiBear
08-18-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by 3894
For argument's sake, let's say that I don't want to tie up my money in unprofitable Disney stock or that I just don't have the money to invest.

Then what? Go to the gates of Disneyland. See the sights. Smell the smells. Listen to the sounds. Think about what is set in motion if you go in - you have given current management permission to keep on keepin' on. But if you turn and walk away? If enough people turn and walk away? Refuse to spend one more dime at Disneyland until (fill in the blank)?

Think about it.

I don't disagree with you there. I would imagine a very public, vocal, mass boycott of Disneyland, one that garners plenty of media attention, would possibly at least open some ears in the executive offices.

I really wonder what Diane Disney Miller has to say about all this. I'd be shocked if she wasn't aware that SOMEthing was wrong.

Darkbeer
08-18-2003, 05:10 PM
The number one issue that City Hall deals with early in the day is the issuance of the Special Assistance Passes...

My guess is that why most people where in line at 9 AM....

Another reason why the SAP program needs to be revised, to help prevent abuse in the system, without hurting those that really need it.

scaeagles
08-18-2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by PapiBear
I would imagine a very public, vocal, mass boycott of Disneyland, one that garners plenty of media attention, would possibly at least open some ears in the executive offices.

I doubt it will ever happen. How many people do you realistically believe would boycott DL? It is an interesting question, but I don't think any protest or boycott would get enough to be effective.

If a ton of media attention results from a protest or boycott, all that happens is the executives put on their happy face and explain why everything is OK and why DLR is the best it's ever been - DCA, Downtown Disney, etc, etc, etc., all added in the last few years. It becomes free publicity and I would dare say may even have opposite the desired effect.

A boycott? I don't think the numbers willing would be enough to make anytihgn happen. The only hope for anything to get really noticed would be a large protest in the Downtown Disney area with several thousand people participating. Otherwise it's too small.

This is the same reason why I don't think complaining on the website does much. How many people post on here regularly about their concerns? A hundred? Two hundred? I have an idea, but I really don't know.

Tigertail777
08-18-2003, 06:25 PM
NO I say we completly carry over the french revolution theme and guillotine eisner, while eating cake and laughing. (OK OK I know the cake thing is historically inaccurate..perhaps boudin bakery bread?)

And... all yucks aside, I think if there were ENOUGH people that didnt go to DL for a long period of time, say about a year.. nor bought anything Disney park related, they would get the message although extremely grudgingly. Especially if there was a large group of people making a big stink about it in all of their local press about why they are not going... local press is a good way to begin to get the national press attention. Ever hear about how Ben and Jerry's icecream fought pilllsbury? It was a grassroots campaign, if you wanted to support them you called a number to order a bumper sticker and button that said "what is the doughboy afraid of?" (this was over the whole issue of pillsbury not allowing stores that sold haagen daaz, to sell the new company; ben and jerry's icecream). Ben and Jerry's got on a bunch of radio shows, at first locally then nationally as well as papers...they completely outsold their campaign kits, and pretty soon very grudgingly pillsbury told the stores they could sell Ben and Jerry's . It took several years of fighting but the little guy won.

TP2000
08-18-2003, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Darkbeer
The number one issue that City Hall deals with early in the day is the issuance of the Special Assistance Passes...

My guess is that why most people where in line at 9 AM....



I've seen this too Darkbeer! The line snaked out of City Hall, down the steps, and along the sidewalk one Saturday morning when I went two months ago! As I waited for some of my group to use the facilities, I asked a 18 year Main Street vendor "What's the deal with that?" and he said "Oh, it's like that every weekend morning. Those are people in line to get SAP passes."

My question is, if they can't wait in line at the attractions and they need to have an SAP, then how the heck are they able to wait in line at City Hall to get the SAP in the first place?

The whole "SAP" process is incredibly fishy and needs to be junked if you asked me.

cstephens
08-18-2003, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by TP2000
My question is, if they can't wait in line at the attractions and they need to have an SAP, then how the heck are they able to wait in line at City Hall to get the SAP in the first place?

There was a particular day when I was in the park when I needed an SAP, but the line came out the door of City Hall and quite a bit down the sidewalk. Since I couldn't and didn't want to wait in the probably half-hour line, I decided I just wasn't going to go on anything that required any sort of wait that day. But, I have the luxury of that. A day visitor might not.

I noticed that day that a few of the people in line were in wheelchairs, so I was wondering how they were going to make it up the steps.

For others who needed SAPs, I suppose it would have been possible for someone else to wait in the line for them while they stayed seated somewhere and then when the other person got towards the front, the person needing the pass could join them. Why can't they do that in regular lines then? Because this is only one queue, and they'd be doing that all day otherwise, in queues where just joining someone doesn't work quite as well.

TP2000
08-18-2003, 10:17 PM
Keep in mind that I am a Disneyland fan just like everyone else here before you flame me...

The title of this thread caught my eye for a second time:

"If We All Talked, They'd Have To Listen"

You know what? They don't "have" to listen to us if we complain. Disneyland is private property, run as a private business, by a legitimate American company. Disneyland doesn't "owe" us anything. If they want to shut down Pirates of the Caribbean and install a Tilt-A-Whirl on Tom Sawyer's Island, they have every right to do that. If they want to cut CM staffing to the bone and make every major attraction a "self serve" affair like the messy boarding processes at Six Flags parks, they could do that too. They could lease out Great Moments With Mr. Lincoln to the local Hooters Restaurant if they wanted to and serve beer and buffalo wings instead of doing that old animatronic show few people visit.

That's the beauty of American Free Enterprise. They don't "have" to do anything. If they want to stay in business, they would likely try to continue to "exceed our expectations". But they don't really have to.

Just like the American airlines don't "have" to have pretty stewardesses wearing designer uniforms and white gloves while they pass out three course steak dinners to the passengers who are wearing their Sunday best, Disneyland doesn't "have" to keep their Parks in pristine condition. It's not 1963 anymore. Walt is dead, and society has supposedly "advanced". Most airlines have gone to Greyhound busses in the sky, and the "pretty stewardess" has turned into a dour and charmless Southwest Airlines "flight attendant" simply wearing khaki shorts and a polo shirt while they throw a bag of peanuts at you. It's 2003. And if Disneyland wants to, it could shut down all the expensive rides, slash staffing to the bone, allow the male CM's to have long hair, tattoo's and goatee's, and basically do whatever they damn well please.

Disneyland is private property owned by a private company in a capitalist society. They can do whatever they want, whenever they want. Personally, I would prefer it if Disneyland still tried to live up to the standards they had in 1963, but they don't "have" to do anything. Theoretically, they could bulldoze the Resort and turn it into condominiums if they wanted to.

cujosr
08-18-2003, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by TP2000
...a dour and charmless Southwest Airlines "flight attendant"... Uniformed Crewmember! Get It Right! :D

Lashbear
08-18-2003, 11:54 PM
The sad part is, that's right, TP2000 :(.

The good part is, they DO listen to the public (ie see the whole Monorail Steps thing - that was GOOD ! )

SacTown Chronic
08-19-2003, 06:45 AM
No, Disneyland does not have to listen. They can just become Magic Mountain if they want. Of course nobody comes from foreign countries just to go to Magic Mountain. And nobody wins the Super Bowl and says "I'm going to Sea World".

Doodle Duck
08-19-2003, 07:52 AM
That's because Sea World doesn't pay 'em 10 grand to say it.

Tinkerbell737
08-19-2003, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by TP2000
That's the beauty of American Free Enterprise. They don't "have" to do anything. If they want to stay in business, they would likely try to continue to "exceed our expectations". But they don't really have to.

You're absolutely right that they don't have to, but as a good business move they should want to make the customers happy. And I think if you look at the financials WE are the customers... the regular park visitors, the "locals." We're the ones spending our money and investing in the Parks overall. Maybe we can't purchase enough stock to make a huge difference, but every $3 we spend on an ice cream sandwich all goes toward the bottom line.

If we suddenly didn't come... if every AP or local or daytripper said "you know what? I'm going some place else" that would hurt things DRAMATICALLY. And if I am going to a place that isn't as nice and clean and the employees are unfriendly and the quality is the same, I'm sure Knott's Berry Farm would appreciate my business.

If someone were to organize a "black out" day for APs and encourage everyone to stay away from the parks that day... especially on a traditionally slow day... that would make an enormous impact. [I say 'someone' because I am not that person to organize a revolution ;)]

Tinkerbell737
08-19-2003, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by Lani
BTW, what did the guests seem to be complaining about?

I agree that a 'paper letter' is always best and I do plan to forward copies of my recent findings via postal mail as well.

It seemed to me that a lot of people (although maybe the line at City Hall was mostly for the SAPs) were upset about the delayed openings of the restaurants and outdoor vending carts. The carts are everywhere but none of them were open.

I was shocked when at noon (12pm! on a hot day!) the two ice cream vendors that I came across both told me - flatly - "I'm not open yet." I was thinking that in the summer heat, the ice cream vendors would be set up and ready to go well before 12pm. It was probably just coincidence that neither of these CMs were apologetic or even nice about it... they kind of rolled their eyes at us, like we were so stupid to want a popsicle on a hot day! :)

Also, I heard a lot of people grumbling about the outdoor vending carts selling hot dogs and popcorn that also had soft drinks, but the drinks weren't cold. The churro cart stationed at the Haunted Mansion queue was repeatedly turning people away saying "the drinks aren't cold yet... come back later." Now, unless they have a SubZero in those things, it's going to take a good long while for the warm sodas to cool down.... again, on a hot day, they were losing potential customers left and right. And at $2.50 a pop (no pun intended) that's pretty significant.

Disneyphile
08-19-2003, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by Tinkerbell737
If someone were to organize a "black out" day for APs and encourage everyone to stay away from the parks that day... especially on a traditionally slow day... that would make an enormous impact. [I say 'someone' because I am not that person to organize a revolution ;)]

I like your thinking! One day would be a lot easier to participate in rather than a full boycott, and it would still make an impact - DCA would have a population of about 100 guests.;) It would make quite a statement. :)

teach
08-19-2003, 09:22 AM
To call a one day boycott would be a novel idea. Given the discussion amongst this thread, one would assume a support for such action. But MP may represent a few hundred AP'ers, and even fewer than that following along with this line of discussion. My guess is a fairly miniscule number of guests are as disatisfied as being represented here (ie. wanting and willing to support a boycott). It would be interesting if an independent agency was hired to host an unbiased (meaning not run by the Disney) satisfaction survey of guests. My guess is that we would have quite a spectrum of results, with a majority being very satisfied; and a very small sampling willing to support a boycott. Conversely, I am sure there would be a very small number of people who would say things are perfect the way they are.

Interesting discussion happening here.

Tinkerbell737
08-19-2003, 01:29 PM
I definitely think a one day 'black out' would be significant. Disneyphile is right, DCA is aching for guests so bad, that if the APs weren't there, it would be a ghost town.

I wonder if any of the other local parks would buy in to a sympathy plea... something along the lines of allowing a significant discount to current AP holders on the one particular day. Disney can watch the money literally drive across town and trade in the Fantasia ice cream for Boysenberry.

THAT would make an impact.

I guess I should also make the disclaimer that I am not trying to incite a riot or be disrespectful to Disney at all. I'd just like to see them appreciate their guests a little more and show some respect to the AP holders.

scaeagles
08-19-2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Tinkerbell737
I guess I should also make the disclaimer that I am not trying to incite a riot or be disrespectful to Disney at all. I'd just like to see them appreciate their guests a little more and show some respect to the AP holders.

Curious...please note I am an AP holder....do AP holders deserve more respect than the average tourist? Is this what you are implying?

Disneyphile
08-19-2003, 02:12 PM
Heh, heh. Wouldn't that be a kicker if Knotts announced: "For one weekend only - your DL annual pass will be honored here so you may enjoy a free sampling of our entertainment! And bring a friend for only $10 extra!"

I'm betting a LOT of people would take advantage of that offer, and imagine the revenue in food and souvenir sales Disney would lose to Knotts for the day. And Knotts would probably gain quite a few new AP holders. :)

Hmmm.... anyone have any PR connection at Knotts? ;)