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View Full Version : IS Disneyland really in that bad of shape?



mkyears
07-24-2003, 10:30 PM
I know that not a huge amount of things have been going on in the last few years which is a dissapointment . I also know that the park in not being run exactly the way Walt would have wanted, but today after reading AL's Column on miceage I was left depressed and sad. Then I began to realize every time I go to Disneyland I have a great time. So is Disneyland really in such bad shape or is it that we bring up all the negatives of the park.
I think if you go on a saturday night and see all the magic from main street with the piano playing then over to rivers of america to see fantasmic and finally watching beleive with some friends or family you would realize that Disneyland is still the happiest place on earth.

The reason I bring this up and have before in the past is why keep bringing up the negatives when there is so much joy and happiness that is still there and will never leave.

snappy
07-24-2003, 10:37 PM
I think Disneyland is still worth it. I feel the opinions here are harsh sometimes and people are hard on Disneyland and DCA in general. Sure some rides are old and some are MIA, but Disneyland as a whole is still a wonderful place to visit. That's one persons opinion.

Mortimer
07-24-2003, 10:47 PM
I agree DL is still a magical place. I think negativity keeps certain writers employed. There is still the magic in the park. My three year old can feel it, maybe the certain writer needs to look at the park through the eyes of a child again.

MonorailMan
07-24-2003, 11:15 PM
I'd have to say that DL isn't really that Bad. I always have a good time.

However, compared to what it was, it's in poor shape. However, when I do go in Tommorland, I want to scream! Seeing all the empty buildings, track, and sunk subs, I really wonder who would let it get like this. ;)

Doodle Duck
07-24-2003, 11:21 PM
I don't doubt Al's concern or inside info on the Monorails...but today/tonight there was the Orange...Red and Purple running a very heavy schedule...they all were quiet...sharp looking and clean...we rode and it was a terrific smooth ride...very hard to SEE the problems being discussed...at least with the monorail System... and at least I didn't get hit on the head with a part.

mrfantasmic
07-24-2003, 11:33 PM
I dont think it is in BAD condition per se, but lesser than Walt's standards. When it gets bad, then we'll really put up a fuss!

Tref
07-24-2003, 11:40 PM
Yet, I think you would all have to agree To-morrowland is pretty much a ghost town. Al was right on the mark, but that is not to say that Disneyland is no longer fun. For my money, its still the only place I would ever want to be.

g.

b52hbuff
07-25-2003, 06:19 AM
"My three year old can feel it, maybe the certain writer needs to look at the park through the eyes of a child again.."

My child enjoys the park too. However, I think these sentiments
sell children short by ignoring their ability to percieve their
surroundings. It also gives Disney an unnessary 'pass'.

During a recent trip to iasw, my 27 month old noticed a single A-A
out of the attraction that had been removed. As we were riding
past the (missing) Scottish bagpiper, she pointed to the 'hole' and
said 'Boy missing!' The point is that even someone that young
can see issues.

We can set the bar as 'low' as we want. Maybe we should look
at the park through the 'eyes of someone from a third world
country that is malnurished. (Ah the magic of the stinking ODV
cart).


Maybe we should look at the park through the eyes of a blind person? (Would Walt have been pleased with the new smell being piped out main street? Did you notice that the horns on the main street vehicles aren't as full as they used to be?)

So are we happy with the way the park is run?

If Disneyland _never_ gets another E-ticket attraction, is that ok?

If Disneyland _never_ gets entertainment on the scale of her
previous grand shows (e.g HBoND, BatB) is that ok?

One entertaining benchmark for me is the Doobie-factor. ;)
Those of you who are familiar with Laughingplace.com know that
they usually are much easier on grading Disney efforts. So I
usually read their stuff with a big grain of salt knowing that I have
to 'adjust their grade' based on past history of never giving
anything at DL a poor review. Their scale goes from 'Magical' to
'Acceptable'.

_Finally_ I saw a 'negative review' when Doobie expressed
disappoinment in the 'Nemo parade' in DCA. Those of you who have seen it will understand.

...so back at the point. Different people are going to have
different standards. At some point, the standards will converge
when my 27 month old, Doobie, the blind person and the third
worlder all see the same thing. I hope it never gets that bad...

SteveK
07-25-2003, 08:17 AM
To me, it's all about whether the park lives up to the expectations set by past history. We used to get new e-ticket attractions more frequently in the past and we used to have several "lands" will a full plate of attractions available. Today...we've had no new e-ticket attractions since Indy and we have one entire "land" that's a shell of it's former self. Not to mention several un-used areas in the park that are ripe for new attractions (old motorboat lagoon, big thunder ranch area, submarine lagoon, circlevision, peoplemover...so much space, so little money). Disney set a precedence and had a reputation for quality that they no longer live up to fully.

The reality is that if they had never built DCA, Disneyland would most likely be much more complete and a better value than it is today. Unfortunately, it appears as if we will all need to live with DL's current state (it will probably get worse), while TDA makes much needed additons and improvements to DCA. Until Jay gets his ducks in a row and somehow convinces the upper executives that DL is decaying at a steady rate, we'll see very little in the way of change at the park.

As for children, my 4 year old and 2 year old have never made a negative comment or appeared to notice anything wrong with the park. As soon as we pull in the parking structure, they are in a completely different world. A world where missing paint, thatch roofing falling off the tiki room, long lines, down rides and a tomorrow ghostland don't matter.

At then end of the day, that's all that really matters to me.

screamin4ever
07-25-2003, 08:50 AM
But Walt himself did NOT just aim to please children. My issue is the fact that the DLR has not EXCEEDED my expectations in a long time. I believe Indy was the last time. I go to the DLR with high hopes and leave disappointed when I see new things like Pooh done half-way.

On the other hand, having very low expectations of places like Paramount's Great America, I leave happy because their Nick Central addition. They managed to capture the Nick characters and atmosphere of the cartoons. We spent hours there and bought a bunch of Sponge Bob stuff. We left feeling like we would return next year.

Disney has taught me to sit back and be blown away by their new attractions. Now what have they been up to lately? Retro Small World? New paint? FIXING things that have been allowed to decay? The present management could do wonders for the Six Flags franchise.

Disney set the bar very high in the past and the present management doesn't seem to know there is a bar. The Disney brand no longer means what it did in the past.

THAT'S WHY PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING. And will continue to. We want the DLR to be the BEST park in the world! Like it used to be!

Safety, Courtesy, Show, Efficiency....that was Walt's top four priorities.

Today we have, Safety, Portion Control, Profit, Hipe, and the rest of the first three sprinkled in depending on which CM you run into.


SAD! SAD! SAD!

raider
07-25-2003, 09:46 AM
I am sort of in the middle...I see some of the problems which are pointed out, but I still find it a wonderful, magical place.

However, while ackknowledging the many problems the park is having, I will say this: no theme park can withstand the scrutiny of a weekly visitor. A guest who visits DL on a weekly basis will naturally discover "problems" the annual or semi-annual visitor will never ever notice.

I am not commenting on whether one should or should not go visit DL that often. I am just saying that no place can withstand the scrutiny of such frequent visits.

Just my two cents :)

ununoctium
07-25-2003, 10:23 AM
I agree with some of the comments on both sides of this issue. YEah, there are problems with the park, yeah it's not "what it used to be", but, it does appear that some just like focus on teh negative of the resort.

"What Walt would have done..."

I love Walt Disney dearly, but he's been gone for a good while now, how can we judge that his leadership style would work now, in this day and age? The Walt Disney Company has changed so much.

I find DLR a magical place, yeah, it's not perfect, but, I love it so much better than the other California parks.

hefferdude
07-25-2003, 10:37 AM
Yes, the demise of Disneyland's attractions past and present does delete a lot of the "original" magic attributed to the park. :crying:

Yet, some departments have been able to maintain a high standards year round. I really appreciate the people responsible for all the work that shows up in the greenery. I have never been dissapointed in the landscaping. As an example, ie, TL attraction losses aside, I think the idea of the edible landscaping in TL was and still is a terrific one! Some of the out of the way quiet areas are islands of tranquility in what can be a sea of stress for some. :cool:

Disneyland still has that magical allure. And I think it's created in large part by the the gardening and landscaping efforts.

Another positive note - The November to January holiday season decorations still blow me away every time I go.

Sorry for the cliche but its not just about the rides.

mrfantasmic
07-25-2003, 10:47 AM
Here's the thing: People's standards have been high since the Disney years, but, if you'll remember, after Disney and through most of the 80s, not a single thing changed in the park. While we get new shows, overlays, and even mediocre new rides, they didn't get a single thing.
Nowadays, we are used to the beginning of the Eisner era, when his team came in fresh with ideas and kept the park absolutely pristine and bubbling with new things, such as the phenominally expensive Indiana Jones ride, which has more than paid itself off.
Since then we've seen a decrease in activity and many of us are quite disappointed about it.
But the park is not yet Six Flags.

Mortimer
07-25-2003, 11:20 AM
I bet there was negativity back in 1955 too. It would be interesting if people had the kind of information access back then what we have today. It would have been interesting to hear those comments on a daily basis too.

Probably things like, "Why the heck did Walt put such a small scaled train in the park and not a full sized one"? or "Those Indians sure don't look real too me Eddie" or " Jeez that Frontierland is sure dirty and it smells like horse poop....

TP2000
07-25-2003, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by mrfantasmic
Here's the thing: People's standards have been high since the Disney years, but, if you'll remember, after Disney and through most of the 80s, not a single thing changed in the park. While we get new shows, overlays, and even mediocre new rides, they didn't get a single thing..

I will have to respectfully disagree with that. The period after Walt's passing through the 80's actually had quite a few big "hits", and their scale and budget were much, much bigger than the "overlays" and merchandise events we get now. Allow me to run through this list of Disneyland additions, off the top of my head:

December, 1966 - Walt passed away
-March, 1967 - Pirates of the Caribbean opened
-Summer, 1967 - New Tomorrowland opened with Carousel of Progress, Adventure Thru Inner Space, Flight To The Moon, CircleVision, PeopleMover, RocketJets, and radically remodeled land
(I will offer those as freebies because they were well in the pipeline when Walt died)

-1969 - Haunted Mansion opened
-1970-'71- lull in Disneyland action while Walt Disney World completed and opened in Florida
-1972 - Bear Country land and Country Bear Jamboree opened
-1972- Main Street Electrical Parade debuted
-1974 - America Sings opened
-1975- Mission To Mars opened
-1976- Bicentennial celebration, America On Parade
-1976- Major new show scenes and animatronics added to Jungle Cruise
-1977- Space Mountain opened
-1978- Matterhorn major upgrade, addition of dual bobsleds, new show scenes and the Abominable Snowman
-1979- Big Thunder Mountain Railroad opened
-1980- 25th Anniversary celebration
-1981-'82- lull in Disneyland action while EPCOT completed and opened in Florida
-1983- New Fantasyland opened, all attractions majorly upgraded
1984- Eisner took over

The 18 years between Walt's death and Eisner's arrival were full of major capital investment and saw the addition of four large, E Ticket attractions. There were also large scale improvements made to existing E Ticket attractions like Jungle Cruise, Matterhorn and the Carousel Theater. While some of those E Tickets like Country Bears and America Sings may seem hokey to our cynical and supposedly "sophisticated" 21st century tastes, they were big, splashy 15 to 20 minute long attraction experiences and early 70's audiences loved them. It's almost painful to now realize that there were a LOT more technologically impressive animatronics in just one show scene of America Sings than there are in all of DCA!

To assert that the era between 1967 and 1984 was a low point in Disneyland history and that "not a single thing changed" in the Park is revisionist history at it's most alarming, and it's simply not true. Compared to the lack of exciting new attractions and lowered expectations of the past 7 or 8 years, that post-Walt era almost looks like a lost Golden Age.

Walts Buddy
07-25-2003, 09:51 PM
To those whose mantra is not what it used to be...I've been married for a couple of decades now and I guess I could say, ..."the relationship isn't what it used to be...". It may not be the same, as far us the initial excitement, but I continue to find more and more reasons to see new facets of my wife's personality and character. O.K., it may not be the best analogy, but everytime we visit DL we see different and new things to appreciate. Sometimes it's the architecture, other times it the sounds of the park, maybe it's just the sight of the monorail passing by at a special time of the day. As with everything there is a change that occurs. I know Walt's no longer with us and his vision has quite possibly been altered by the stewardship of the current management, but I feel that there will always be a large part of DL that lives with me, even if it does have a few more wrinkles and age lines.

Disneyfreak
07-25-2003, 11:14 PM
I would say we are in an era of a greedy management and company. Just look at Eisner, he makes over 70 million a year. Does he use it, NO. If i were him i would take a couple million and keep it then give the rest of it back to the parks that need it the most for repair etc, or at least give it to charity for gods sake. :confused:
YES I WOULD SAY DISNEYLAND IS IN HORRIBLE SHAPE BEYOND COMPREHENSION. JUST LOOK AT TOMORROWLAND!!!!!

I think that those greedy idiots need to get a life and stop hogging all of the cash and leaving everyone else poor.:(
Disneyland is on life support from the old classic attractions which are being replaced slowly. The magic is dying at the original Disneyland and WDW is sucking the life out of it taking all the budget and new attractions and giving us crappy versions of rides from itself.

tod
07-27-2003, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Disneyfreak
Just look at Eisner, he makes over 70 million a year. Does he use it, NO.

Actually he does. Look up "Eisner Foundation." He has set up a foundation to help educational opportunities in the Southern California area.

If you wonder why he is limiting this to SoCal -- or why such a thing is necessary, our TAXES should pay for schools -- fair enough questions.

But your contention that he doesn't use it is incorrect.

--T

Not Afraid
07-27-2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by Walts Buddy
To those whose mantra is not what it used to be...I've been married for a couple of decades now and I guess I could say, ..."the relationship isn't what it used to be...". It may not be the same, as far us the initial excitement, but I continue to find more and more reasons to see new facets of my wife's personality and character. O.K., it may not be the best analogy, but everytime we visit DL we see different and new things to appreciate. Sometimes it's the architecture, other times it the sounds of the park, maybe it's just the sight of the monorail passing by at a special time of the day. As with everything there is a change that occurs. I know Walt's no longer with us and his vision has quite possibly been altered by the stewardship of the current management, but I feel that there will always be a large part of DL that lives with me, even if it does have a few more wrinkles and age lines.

I, too, have been married for quite a while. Yes, things are not the way they used to be. They are better.

Disneyland can age gracefully and still be an exciting place, remain cutting edge, full of imagination, alive and kicking. Sadly, it hasn't taken it's Geritol for a loooong while.

merlinjones
07-27-2003, 12:56 PM
>>Actually he does. Look up "Eisner Foundation." He has set up a foundation to help educational opportunities in the Southern California area.<<

Can you say "tax shelter", "political influence", "quid pro quo" or "power base"?

Regardless, it doesn't make any difference to the sorry state of Tomorrowland.

Allison
07-27-2003, 02:42 PM
We still enjoy it, and yes things have been much better in the past.

Seems like it is the general way all big corporations operate these days. There is a general erosion of decent products to buy, short cuts and cut corners is the new way to do business!

I long for a brand new exciting attraction at DL, but sadly, after such long periods of neglect, I will settle for a fresh paint and rehab schedule!

jerjer2005
07-27-2003, 03:04 PM
I think the main thing that makes everyone on this site wonder if Disney is "still as good" as before is due to all the negative coments that are pounded into our head everyday... Im going to start a group for us that still apriciate the magic that DL holds.. Look for more on that soon!

Not Afraid
07-27-2003, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by jerjer2005
I think the main thing that makes everyone on this site wonder if Disney is "still as good" as before is due to all the negative coments that are pounded into our head everyday... Im going to start a group for us that still apriciate the magic that DL holds.. Look for more on that soon!


Oh, there are many of us that still appreciate the Disney Magic. Why else would I go to the park every week? However, when you've seen the Disneyland of old, you know just how much more wonderful it can be, and still have HOPE that it can return to it's former splendor, you see things with very open eyes.