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Mortimer
07-24-2003, 11:21 AM
I think DCA has been unfairly judged by the AP holders and locals of California. My family and I have been fortunate enough to travel yearly to DLR yearly since 2001.

Here is my rant. This park is great, don't change it and continue in this direction! it is high class and well put together. Everything from the nice wide walkways to the parks theming. Yes, I said theming.

California is a perfect theme for this park! If anything, it has made a traveler to your state interested in seeing the many great things showcased there. In fact, I never knew much about the Monterey area until I went to DCA. It was the wharf area in DCA that made us interested in visiting Monterey. Your state economy can benefit from this park. For example, this year we are planning to go to DLR for 6 days and then up to Monterey area and San Francisco. We would have not chosen to go to the Bay area if it wasn't for California Adventure!

We love this park! It is themed for families who like to learn about your great state. And when the economy picks up again and when people are willing to spend money on vacations again, I think you will see the attendance levels rise.

The rides are 1st class with the exception of a couple that could be weeded out over the years and replaced with imagineering designed themed rides or themed dark rides, (Mullholand, SSL). TOT is going to help the park out immensely, I can't wait for next year! California Screamin is a nice smooth and fast coater. Soarin is incredible, it will be neat to see how they update that ride over the years. The bugs land was a step in the right direction for the kiddies. All and all we are very happy with the rides in DCA.

Sorry if this is an unpopular view.

:cool:

dshimel
07-24-2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by mgrwarner

Here is my rant. This park is great, don't change it and continue in this direction! it is high class and well put together. Everything from the nice wide walkways to the parks theming. Yes, I said theming.


That assertion would make economic sense if Disney were content having a park that draws APs and Hoppers out of DL for an hour or two during the busiest part of the day.

If, however, Disney actually wants to have a park that actually has paying guests, that actually holds those guests for more than a couple hours, then they need to change almost EVERYTHING.

The themes lack ANY imagination, and don't contribute to the experience for most peope. When they're in the theme park in CA, they feel just like they're in a theme park in CA. The rides are mostly off-the-shelf experiences that can be had anyhere (the only exception is Soarin'). Screamin' may be longer and smoother, but it is still just a steel looper to ride. Too many movie based attractions with low repeatability. The central iconic attraction is as exciting as getting repeatedly dunked in cold water. Wait, that's exaclty what it is. The stop-gap shows and attractions have only temporarily slowed the bleeding, but those band-aids will have little real staying power.

The park need magic. It needs highly themed rides. It needs exotic and exciting themes. It needs all the cheap crap removed, and it needs rebuilt from the ground up.

That isn't just me saying this. It is the millions of people a year that they hoped to draw, that aren't going. I hate to see what attendance would be if they'd kept that initial policy of no hoppers except to hotel guests, and no (or very expensive) 2-park APs. No one is paying $47 a day to see DCA.

Tigertail777
07-24-2003, 01:15 PM
Sorry but its not just locals and AP's that dislike the park, I am from Oregon, and expected the park to be far better than it was. I was highly dissappointed, especially for the price it was. There were only a handful (ok not even a handful.. maybe 4) good attractions I liked and MIGHT make me come back, and of those one doesnt have much repeatabilty for me (soarin'). I would have rather had ONE super outstanding take your breath away ride in a well themed park, than a bunch of so-so attractions.

Btw, you know a park is in trouble when it is repeatedly featured in national news media in a not so good light (it was made fun of on the Simpsons more than once for crying out loud). I have seen all kinds of great shows on the travel channel about Disney parks, and other top notch theme/amusement parks, but have yet to see DCA on there in anything more than a little "blip".

I am glad you had a good time, to each their own, but as I said its not just locals that dislike the park. I would rather see Disney MGM.

Mortimer
07-24-2003, 01:37 PM
Keep in mind the park is in its infancy and there is much to be said about trial and error. Yes, the AP crowd can see flaws and harbour negativity on them until death, (Its hard to compare when you have the best park ever created next door!). I see the positives and the direction the park is headed. TOT is a great leap forward and shows the commitment Disney has to improve the park. DCA is not flawed, just the people who have lost patience.

Have patience, Disney has a lot of money and will make things right for you too. I do agree an imaginative dark ride is needed in DCA. A ride of Pirates calibur. In 10 years when DCA has improved 100 fold, I wonder where the negativity will be?

DCA is great to people who visit from out of town. I am in it for the long haul. Enjoy it too while its young, the park will continue to grow and flourish from here and you will all be able to say "remember when" just like you do today about Disneyland. The magic exists here, you just need to look for it.

johnnyrad
07-24-2003, 01:56 PM
The Most Boring Place on Earth

innerSpaceman
07-24-2003, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by mgrwarner
In 10 years when DCA has improved 100 fold, I wonder where the negativity will be?
Now, there's some great advice. Why didn't I think of that? Just wait ten years, that's all there is to it!

dshimel
07-24-2003, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by mgrwarner

I see the positives and the direction the park is headed. TOT is a great leap forward and shows the commitment Disney has to improve the park. DCA is not flawed, just the people who have lost patience.
...
In 10 years when DCA has improved 100 fold


Let me see if I get what you're saying here..... It's not broke, but you like how Disney is fixing it. Some 10 years from now, it will be 100 times better than today, but it is already perfectly fine today. Is that about correct?

DCA had a vision when it opened. Reality. Reality based themes for the lands. Little to no themeing in the queues. No "stories" to the attractions, just real places. You had Muppets and Bugs and Annimation, but those were just cheap lifts from WDW. All the other lands, buildings, and attractions were "reality" based. Anti-imagination.

ToT is a haunted hotel with possessed elevators. It will have a highly themed building, a story, and [gasp] a themed queue.

ToT is unlike ANYTHING else in DCA. If you like where DCA is going, especially with ToT, then how can you say you like where DCA is, the anit-ToT?

At least the original poster of this thread was consistant. He likes where DCA is and doesn't want it taken in a new direction. Fine, if Disney wants the place to stay deserted. You claim to like where it is and are glad it's going in a new direction. How can that be? Which is it? Not borken OR they're fixing it and it will be 100 fold better 10 years from now?

Mortimer
07-24-2003, 02:39 PM
I like where it is today, yes and I like where it is headed tomorrow. Why can't this be a true statement? It is fun for me and my family to go there now to go to an entirely different environment than DL at the DLR.

TOT will only enhance the experience. It is themed, yes (great observation by the way). Whats the harm in having more rides like this to enhance the flavor? You can't snap your fingers and have a park transform into Disneland overnight. In saying that, I still like where DCA is today, and I like where it is headed.

Money is being spent to increase the heads in the park, I dont' see anything wrong with that.... In ten years you will see a much different park, I am sure and what is wrong with that? How many transformations did Disneyland go through since 1955? I like the general theme of California. to get back to my original post, out of staters like me like to learn about California. There are a few minor things I would change, but keep the theme and grow with it.

Pat-n-Eil
07-24-2003, 02:41 PM
So, Disneyland wasn't much better at 10 years (and each successive 10 years) than it was earlier? Disneyworld didn't improve after a dozen years to be much better?

Things don't need to be broke to be improved. I still hold the unpopular view that DCA is actually MORE appealing in many ways than DLR. :eek:

Less crowded, less stroller bruises, more sit down dining, adult beverages, neat rides (and more being built). Disneyland blew up my favorite land (Tomorrowland) bye closing the subs, taking down Space Mountain for years worth of rehab, leaves the rocket rods track empty of an attraction and then gave us the Pooh ride on the other side of the park :rolleyes: The only E ticket ride anywhere near there is the Matterhorn, and I hold the other unpopular view that it is an uncomfortable jerky ride with no real payoff other than some nice views.

Basically, except for nostalgia's sake, my family agrees that we'd rather spend more time at DCA. Our trip this fall will certainly include some time on our favorites - PotC, HM, GTMRR, SM and catching the snow display.. but we'll spend at least as much time in DCA (perhaps more) enjoying Soarin', California Screamin and such.

With fresh, unjaded eyes - you see a lot more on the plus side at DCA than the old APers around this place. And I should be nearly as jaded, I've been to DLR at least once every year since 1996.

So I'm going to chime in with mgrwarner's original post. I've said it before, I'll say it again - I like DCA.

jrad32
07-24-2003, 03:41 PM
Good for you guys that you like it, but I find it God awful. For the record I'm not from California, and am not, and have never been, an AP holder.

I have hope for the future as well, but it's hard to forget the present of a shuttered Tomorrowland and DCA (Disney's Crappy Anus).

millionairegirl
07-24-2003, 04:02 PM
I like DCA too. I'm looking forward to TOT, and I hope another sit down restaurant is added, but I enjoy my time there. If they take out WWTBAMPI (I've heard there's a possibility of RNRC), I will probably be there a lot less, though. Is it worth $47? No, but IMHO neither is AK or MGM in WDW, but they charge that anyway. DCA, AK, and MGM are NOT meant for the day visitor, they are meant for the Park Hopper. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy your day there.

My real pet peeve is when people say 'DCA is horrible'. Then you ask 'Why didn't you like it?'. Then they say 'I've never been, I've just heard' . WTF?!

hmbldr
07-24-2003, 05:16 PM
Oooh, a WTF? on a Disney thread. :D

Hey, I liked DCA. There, I said it. Add me to the bunch. My only regret is that I didn't spend more time there as I know I missed a lot. I budgeted too littel time there, my fault for downplaying it due to the ranting around here.

Is it DL? NO. Is it worth $47 for a single day pass? Probably not. But I've never bought a single day for any Disney I've ever done, so it's not really an issue.

I love the M Padders here, but there is way too much bellyaching from the local hardcores. Yes, Disney may have figured short when they built DCA. But the additions and changes that I've heard of and witnessed - seems things are headed in the right direction.

And that is a close as a rant as you'll get from me.

All IMO. :)

zapppop
07-24-2003, 05:25 PM
I only like DCA when I'm drunk.

LifelongAngelsFan
07-24-2003, 07:38 PM
Regardless of everyone's opinion, the fact is the public believes DCA is a huge failure. That's not the opinion of a few whinning MPs or APs. The attendance figures stand by themselves.

zapppop
07-24-2003, 07:58 PM
and to prove those attendance figures:
http://members.aol.com/mreurodisney/empty.jpg

This was taken last Saturday @ 1PM.

Ummm.. didn't this attraction just open 3 or 4 months ago ?
When I saw the empty queue and 5 CM's just standing around, I thought it was 101. Nope.
Just another slow day in DCA.

Will they EVER have a peak season ? :rolleyes:

sancho
07-24-2003, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by mgrwarner
Sorry if this is an unpopular view.

Don't apologize for your point of view. It is your's. Even though a lot of people here have, perhaps, tried to tell you why you are wrong for liking DCA, I love your opinion. Yep, I guess I am one of those ignorami who really likes this park. Glad to know there are more than me.

Mortimer
07-24-2003, 10:11 PM
Isn't this like the worst economy in like over a decade? I don't think Disney excpected that (+ the s-heads who hit the trade towers) in the late gay 90's when they were planning DCA.

I like WTF, it should be used somehow in every post.

Uncle Dick
07-24-2003, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by mgrwarner
Isn't this like the worst economy in like over a decade? I don't think Disney excpected that (+ the s-heads who hit the trade towers) in the late gay 90's when they were planning DCA.
That would explain DCA's low numbers, but it still doesn't explain why Disneyland has enjoyed continued high attendance during that very same time period.

Oh, and I sort of like DCA.

Mortimer
07-24-2003, 10:35 PM
I understand that DL still has okay numbers but not pre 9-11.

Could it also be from the negative criticism why people are staying away from DCA? Why waste $47 on DCA if you have the perception it is a bad park? Might as well spend that hard earned dough over at the tried and true.

Tigertail777
07-25-2003, 01:18 AM
the 9/11 downturn economy hogwash doesnt explain why japan's Disneyseas is doing record amounts of biz, in a DEPRESSION that is far worse than our own economy.

I personally didnt HATE DCA, I was just very dissappointed. There were a few very cool things there such as the animation building, but it just was not worth the money spent. Maybe if it had been around half the price of Disneyland I could see the value, though I really don't think they have yet carried the California theme to its best yet. I wish they had focused more on the history of california: where's the goldrush ride? where is a musuem or somethign like that of the history of Disneyland, and Disney studios? Where is the san francisco earthquake ride? The history of the avenue of giants and redwoods? The drinkable water?:p :D (dare I hope, a zorro ride), you get the idea...

Sure DCA MIGHT grow into something great, but they sure are being slow about it... Disneyland got tons of new attractions year after year really the time period between the park opening and walts death is tiny (11 years:1955-1966) but look at all the constant change and progress for the better that was accomplished in that short time span. Will we ever get something as earth shattering as the introduction to the worlds first full audio animatronics (tiki room in 1963) in DCA? At this rate, with all the penny-pinching going on I have to emphatically say NO.

How old is DCA now? 2, 3 years? that means they have 8 or 9 years to catch up with what the Disneyland experience was like in 1966. Its possible for it to happen, but highly unlikely due to all the stupid budget cutting, and completely disregarding Walt's "invest in now for the future" mentality. Imagineering is just a former shell of what it once was, so unless some major decisions to re-instate that department to full working capacity are put back on track, I see little hope for DCA's future, and indeed little hope for Disneyland's either.

Laffite
07-25-2003, 01:22 AM
A non-Disney friend of mine just went to DCA and he thought it was trash.

and then he went over the Disneyland and bought a pAP :o

Preston

MammaSilva
07-25-2003, 06:30 AM
Well no one should appologize for their opinion... everyone is entitled to voice it... however, next time you want to say something like......

Oh What Totally Fantastic place DCA is

or to use the 'shortcut' to express your opinion .. please use another phrase... that one could be confused with trying to get by the list of censored words here on the pad, and I KNOW none of you would want to do that now would you? :rolleyes:


MammaSilva, MODERATOR

Pat-n-Eil
07-25-2003, 08:14 AM
What's The Fuss about?

millionairegirl
07-25-2003, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by Pat&Eil
What's The Fuss about?


Hee!

Sorry mods! No more questionable abbreviations from me .:rolleyes:

dshimel
07-25-2003, 08:39 AM
I'm not a hard core AP. I lived in Colorado when DCA opened. I got my first AP 3 months ago. Even as far away as Colorado I could see DCA wasn't a Disney park. Unthemed steel looper, off-the-shelf S&S tower and wild mouse, 5 movie based attractions(Annimation, Soarin', Bugs, Muppets, Golden Dreams), three factory tours, a wave swinger, ferris wheel, raft ride... The only AAs are in Bugs and Muppets, attractions I'd already seen in WDW in November 2000.

As opposed to adventure and fantasy and future and "around the world in a mile" or chance to visit a romanticised version of a historic past..... The theme was going to be pure here and now reality. A run down desert air base, a mountain, a farm, a vinyard, a cheap amusement pier, a run down wharf, the bay area.

Visions of people sipping wine, dining at Puck's.....

Not my kind of park.

My guess was that attendance would SUCK. At first, it looked like the previews would show me wrong..... Then the park opened and 2.5 years of attendance has shown me right.

I'm glad some people love the place. Good for them. If Disney wants the place to be forever empty, then they should stick to the original vision of mundane reality.

If, however, they actually want to make money on the park, they need to keep going where they've been going since weeks after the park opened. Abandon the reality theme. Realize that it is imagination that makes Disney magical. Swap out the mundane themes, for imaginative themes. Farm becomes bugs land. HPB gets ToT, RnRC, Disney show, and SSL overlay. Pier becomes under the sea carnival. GRR needs some story and AAs. Wharf, bay, route 66 get leveled and replaced.