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dshimel
07-07-2003, 04:58 PM
I was watching a program on Travel Channel abut Cedar Point. It said Millennium Force cost $25 million. I heard on this board that Pooh cost $35 million. Surely Pooh didn't cost more than a 300 foot tall giga coaster..... What gives?

Not Afraid
07-07-2003, 06:59 PM
Not knowing details about the mega-coaster you mention, I would assume that the "sets" of Pooh drive up the cost. The Coaster is engineering, where a ride like Pooh is engineering plus imagination ie: Imagineering.

DisneyFan25863
07-07-2003, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by Not Afraid
Not knowing details about the mega-coaster you mention, I would assume that the "sets" of Pooh drive up the cost. The Coaster is engineering, where a ride like Pooh is engineering plus imagination ie: Imagineering.

What "sets"? Pooh is just a bunch of painted cardboard boxes with a few strings attatched (literally :D)

Not Afraid
07-07-2003, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by DisneyFan25863
What "sets"? Pooh is just a bunch of painted cardboard boxes with a few strings attatched (literally :D)

Yes, that's why "sets" was in quotations.

DisneyFan25863
07-07-2003, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by Not Afraid
Yes, that's why "sets" was in quotations.

Oh...(backs into corner with embaressed look on face)

Not Afraid
07-07-2003, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by DisneyFan25863
Oh...(backs into corner with embaressed look on face)

No need. It's Disney who should be embarassed. They put all of that imagination into Pooh and got what you described.

SoCalDisneyLover
07-07-2003, 09:47 PM
Since supposedly Rasulo is all about cycling people through the attractions. I wonder what the hourly count of a ride like Millenium Force is, in comparison to that of Pooh, especially given that Pooh cost $10 Million more.

DL4EVER
07-07-2003, 09:57 PM
I bet you that the cost also included removal of CBJ(RIP)......:crying:

dehnehsu
07-08-2003, 12:33 AM
The $35 million is $1 million for the ride, $34 million for Eisner.

Morrigoon
07-08-2003, 05:05 AM
How much of that Pooh cost is marketing?

DBJ
07-08-2003, 07:55 AM
Millenium Force can cycle through 1600 people per hour. Unlike Pooh, MF also has been a massive hit with Cedar Point fans and drove attendance up in it's first year of operation. Makes you wonder what Disney is doing with all that money doesn't it? Cedar Fair can spend 10 million less and deliver a hit, whereas Disney spends 10 million more and comes out with an average attraction.

Lani
07-08-2003, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by DBJ
Cedar Fair can spend 10 million less and deliver a hit, whereas Disney spends 10 million more and comes out with an average attraction. The cost of living in Ohio is substantially lower than it is in Southern California; I bet wages for the people at Cedar Point were lower for building that thing (they might even have been non-union). Also, Disneyland fans would never stand for a bare steel coaster in the park. It might only cost X to build a house, but it costs a whole lot more to furnish it.

disNeytEen
07-08-2003, 09:21 AM
Also, Disneyland fans would never stand for a bare steel coaster in the park. It might only cost X to build a house, but it costs a whole lot more to furnish it

Here here

LIMANDL4EVA
07-08-2003, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by DL4EVER
I bet you that the cost also included removal of CBJ(RIP)......:crying:

Good point

DBJ
07-08-2003, 10:20 AM
I'm not sure Disneyland fans are welcoming the Pooh attraction with open arms. The 35 million might have been better spent on getting the subs operational and/or completing the restoration of Tom Sawyer's Island. As far as the bare coaster, Disney has that here at DCA, California Screamin'. Ironically, the designers of Millenium Force and Screamin are the same company, Intamin AG.

In fact, the cost of Pooh also could have paid for the following rides: IOA's Deuling Dragons....est. 25 million, IOA's The Hulk 15 million, Top Thrill Dragster - Cedar Point...25 million, Ghostrider..KBF....25 million, etc. In the case of IOA, Deuling Dragons is a well themed coaster, definately better themed than Mullholland Madness.

After seeing Pooh and his "furniture", I still wonder how they managed to spend 35 million on that ride, a clone of a ride already at WDW!. Considering that the attraction has done little to increase attendance, still comes off as lesser version of it's WDW brother, and due to it's low popularity done little to address the capacity issue of Disney. Imo, it boils down to questionable choices in how the resources (money & imagineers) are used at DL.

DL4EVER
07-08-2003, 10:53 AM
Screamin is not as bare as it could be.....the "wood" supports do wonders for it or it would look out of place....

dshimel
07-08-2003, 12:42 PM
While I agree that Disney doesn't need any more unthemed coasters, I still don't see how Pooh could have cost $35 million. Was the cost driven up by trying to use the existing structure? Would it not have been cheaper to just rip down the old building and put in a new one?

Some have stated that it would cost $100-150 million to do Pirates today. What the? Same for RnRC? No way! Disney must be wrapping a lot of other costs into ride construction costs.

If Cedar Point can do a 300 foot tall coaster for $25 million, Disney has got to be able to do an indoor 40 foot tall coaster for $50 million.

DBJ
07-08-2003, 01:26 PM
Universal Studios Hollywood has budgeted 45 million for an indoor coaster hybrid attraction "Mummy's Revenge" to take the place of ET. So yes, it can be done.

tabacco
07-08-2003, 04:03 PM
Height probably doesn't have as much to do with the cost as you'd think. Besides, an indoor coaster requires significantly more labor and trouble than an outdoor coaster.

dshimel
07-08-2003, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by tabacco
Height probably doesn't have as much to do with the cost as you'd think. Besides, an indoor coaster requires significantly more labor and trouble than an outdoor coaster.

Low coasters, like RnRC, have lightly supported track with many supports. The supports don't need to be all that "solid" or have massive foundation. Basicall, they are a big tub steel, with two smaller tube steel tracks attached, with supports.

300 foot tall coasters have a lattice structure the entire length of the track, to provide stiffness to the track. They have fewer, but massive supports with massive foundations.

For RnRC, they build the coaster, then throw a PEB around the ride. They add some lighting and signage, the launch building, the pre-show and the queue.

Is it the launch that is so expensive? RnRC doesn't have multiple load stations like Screamin' and BTMRR so that can't be the expense.

I still can't imagine it costing more $50 million for RnRC.

Icy Bacon
07-08-2003, 10:01 PM
Certifiable coaster expert to the rescue!

It is 100% sad, ridiculous and absolutely laughable at the costs Disney repeatedly rings up for its rides. A small dark ride, with only a few mildly complex ride vehicles, little to no R&D and no high-budget out of shop dark ride scenery should cost no more than five million, and with any other park company that's what it comes out to!

I'd guess that the most expensive rollercoaster without extreme (Big Thunder Mountain style) theming in the US was California Screamin, not because of the long >6000ft track length (track ain't expensive really) but because Disney spent that money on capacity. Each train, with the sound system, almost definitely should've broken the million dollar mark, and if I remember there is for some ridiculous reason nine trains. Not sure what the deal is there, but they could've very easily kept only two out of running all the time and saved a bit of money. Then the launches... the magnets are just coiled wire, but the power regulating systems, computer controllers and all of that is very expensive, and the ride contains not one but two sets of launching LIM's and countless other ones for moving trains through the station and storage track. I guess they just wanted to go for consistency, but who knows how many times the computer faults happen because of those mini-sets of LIM's. Finally, on Cali Screamin, there are five full sets of brakes along the track, and each one of those is expensive equipment with redundant backup systems. (They do fail too with poor maintainance, as happened on SFNE's Superman: Ride of Steel with the same Intamin magnetic brakes.) Finally, the dual station, extensive supports and significant installation cost probably pushed the ride to what I could guess to be around $35 million.

When a park like Holiday World can get themselves greatly noticed with a $5 million wooden rollercoaster through the forest like Raven, something is very, very wrong when the most ingenuitive park company in the world spends $35 million on a small simple dark-ride that hardly makes a splash.

And just for some minor corrections/facts, Ghostrider was far, far less than $25 million, though I can't find the actual number anywhere the typical Custom Coasters Internation wooden coaster was very very cheap for what it was, so probably no more than $13 million, and Millenium Force has a 1600 rider/hour capacity compared to California Screamin's very 2400 rider/hour capacity.

Lani
07-09-2003, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by DBJ
As far as the bare coaster, Disney has that here at DCA, California Screamin'.While I would hardly call Screamin' a "bare coaster," my point had to do explicitly with Disneyland park, not DCA. The two are not interchangeable.

DBJ
07-09-2003, 07:46 AM
Gadget's coaster has exposed, bare track as well. Compared to the previously existing coasters Big Thunder, Matterhorn, and Space Mountain, where the tracks are well hidden. That being said, I don't consider Gadget ugly, and the exposed track of the coaster looks good enough. The last coaster Disney corp. has ever built that has hidden the track successfully in the US parks is WDW's RNR. Vekoma's Forbidden Mountain in 2006 for AK is a step forward in the right direction for new Disney coaster rides.

mrfantasmic
07-09-2003, 08:16 PM
Now wait.. hold on just a second... can somebody CONFIRM the cost of The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh? We've been discussing it, but is that the price?