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DisneylandBoy
08-19-2001, 07:39 PM
You're all hypocrites. Yes, even you! All you do is complain about Disneyland and California Adventure (the paint is peeling, the rides are lame, it isn't the same anymore) yet it seems that you keep going to the parks! If you hate them so much, why go at all? I personally love Disneyland and California Adventure. Everytime I go, I get a special feeling when I pass through the gates. Ask any of my friends - I am a total different person once I am in Disneyland. The magic, the feeling. No one seems to focus on the good any more - only the bad. I get a sick feeling in my stomach everytime I read a post that trashes Disneyland. Okay, sothe executives have made some mistakes - BIG DEAL! They fix them. They realize they've made a mistake and they fix it. They are human you know. Geez . . . I'm sorry to be so blunt but I've been wanting to post something like this for a long time. Disneyland is and will always be the Happiest Place on Earth. And for people who bash it all the time, you ruin the magic. So stop going!

Ralph Wiggum
08-19-2001, 07:43 PM
:) This is my favorite post so far!!! Says what they means and means what they says

DisneyFreak2000
08-19-2001, 09:17 PM
DisneyLvr: Very great opinion, I agree with many things you say;)

JRob2k1
08-19-2001, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by DisneyLvr
I get a sick feeling in my stomach everytime I read a post that trashes Disneyland.

I know this sounds mean, but then dont read the posts. Just like you said, if we dont like..dont go!

I would make a rough estimate that 98% of the people who have a complaint or a pickup about a sertain aspect of the DLR, love Disney!! I mean they love Disney so much, that they are willing to spend time on these boards and express themselves and their opinions. I dont know of many situations at work were I can sit down and have a lenghty discussion on why I dont like seeing powerlines at DCA or why the maintainace at DL seems lacking. If I personally have a complaint...I feel it's valid. Disneyland in particular has always been so magical to me, and it still is. I remember my Dad telling me all the secrets and how Disney prided themselves on maintaince, changing lightbulbs, painting, etc... So when ever I see things that used to be done one on a regualar basis, not only does it take away from the magic, but it also takes away from the memories from my father(who died 3 years ago..)He was so proud of Disneyland and how it could make me so happy, that sometimes its frustrating to see that it doesnt seem to be up the quality anymore. Now I understand this is an extreme example, but it still shows how much Disney, Disneyland in particular means to me!!!

The magic is still there, and there still is a lot. But I tend to see more and more mistakes that could eventually start taking away a lot of the magic people have been acustomed too. That's my personal feeling, but I think there are some who agree with that.


Disneyland is and will always be the Happiest Place on Earth

I totally agree...I just want them to be on top of their game( "magic") at all times, because that's what brought me the best memories. It may be a lot to ask for, but they delivered in the past...

-JRob

EandCDad
08-19-2001, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by DisneyLvr
You're all hypocrites. Yes, even you!

Hold on there cowboy. I don't think everyone on this board "bashes Disneyland." In fact, most posts that include "bashing" are usually comparing how great DL is with how bad DCA is. I have never been to DCA so I don't give opinions on how good or bad it is, but some people have some strong negative opinions about it. Others like Ralph, California Crazy, and others post about how they like DCA. I wouldn't call Ralph a hypocrite, I don't think the guy has ever said anything bad about either DCA or DL.

As for DL, if you look in the Disneyland Resort Thread, most of the DL related threads are positive or neutral. There are a lot of negative DCA threads but I think a lot of those people went once and stopped going because they didn't like it. What is hypocritical about that?

You bring up some good points, but you make a very broad and generalizing statement that doesn't seem to be backed up by the facts.

DisLee
08-19-2001, 09:34 PM
You need to re-read the negative posts. Disneyland is not being trashed - the executives that choose not to maintain it are being trashed. And as far as the exec's fixing problems, if you are referring to Disneyland maintenance, I would totally disagree. Not only are they not fixing the maintenance problem, the problem is getting worse. If you are referring to fixing problems at DCA, well geez, the problems are so deep there I won't even go into it.

I think it's totally appropriate to point out problems especially if we sense they are getting worse. I don't think we should be giving high-fives and attaboys to exec's who purposely let parts of the park fall into disrepair.

I, for one, really like this site because of the if the criticisms that come up. There are plenty of Disney-can-do-no-wrong sites out there filled with giddy teenagers. Perhaps you should try one of those.

Ralph Wiggum
08-19-2001, 09:38 PM
I think they should stay and provide a positve aspect for those negative posts they are seeing.

JRob2k1
08-19-2001, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by DisLee
I, for one, really like this site because of the if the criticisms that come up. There are plenty of Disney-can-do-no-wrong sites out there filled with giddy teenagers. Perhaps you should try one of those.

Mouseplanet does have more criticisms then any of the other sites, but what's strange is that MousePad is a lot more tame then the other sites. Only occasionally does a topic get heated or riled up. If you go to LP and look under the DL Expansion section, there are at least 5 or 6 heated debates going on right now!! And over at MI, anything with the name Marci in the title, usually leads to a hefty discussion. If I want to get involved in one of those BIG discussions, I head over there...

A little food for thought. But hey...I love MousePad!

-JRob

merlinjones
08-19-2001, 11:13 PM
>>You're all hypocrites.<<

All, as in every single one of the other posters on this board?

>>Yes, even you! All you do is complain about Disneyland and California Adventure (the paint is peeling, the rides are lame, it isn't the same anymore) yet it seems that you keep going to the parks! If you hate them so much, why go at all?<<

I adore Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom, Disneyland USA. Always have, always will (as long as it resembles Walt's masterpiece and doesn't evolve into a very different experience). But I must criticize the way the park is being handled by current management, as I am concerned about its continued existence in the form I have grown to love. So no hypocrisy there.

As for DCA, I visited it once, for free, during previews and have not been back since (as often promised on these boards), not will I spend a penny to support it in the forseeable future. No hypocrisy, just the facts. Even the Electrical Parade won't make me break my pledge.

>>I get a sick feeling in my stomach everytime I read a post that trashes Disneyland.<<

Who is trashing Disneyland? The park and its managemnt are most surely NOT one in the same.

>>Okay, sothe executives have made some mistakes - BIG DEAL! They fix them. They realize they've made a mistake and they fix it. They are human you know. <<

Which mistakes did they fix?: Removing the Skyway, PeopleMover, Carousel of Progress, Rocket Jets, CircleVision, Captain Hook's Pirate Ship, Submarine Voyage, Tahitian Terrace, Golden Horseshoe Revue, Mary Blair murals, Adventure Thru Inner Space, Main Street Electrical Parade (well there's one)? The design of Newest Tomorrowland? Under prepared paint surfaces in Tomorrowland that constantly peel? General maintenence? Killing that guy with the cleat? Letting classic attractions rot? Overpriced, bad food? General management? Replacing Tony with Barry? Promoting Paul? Considering closure of Country Bears before the film comes out?

I missed all these fixes somewhere along the line. I know they are only human, but do they...?

>>Geez . . . I'm sorry to be so blunt but I've been wanting to post something like this for a long time. Disneyland is and will always be the Happiest Place on Earth. And for people who bash it all the time, you ruin the magic. So stop going!<<

I have no intention of not going, unless Disneyland's annual passports were mandatorily folded in with DCA's. Then I would curtail visits to Disneyland upon (non) renewal time, as I will not be a hypocrite and support the new park and its bottom-line, antiWalt policies.

Morrigoon
08-19-2001, 11:13 PM
Parents love their children. They love them more than anyone else in their life.

There are two types of parents.

Some parents believe their child can do no wrong, never lies, and never misbehaves. These parents refuse to believe anyone who tells them otherwise. These are the parents who are most likely to be surprised when their kid's misbehavior spirals out of control and he/she ends up pregnant or in jail.

There are other parents who care just as much about their kids, who love them just as much, but who monitor their child's behavior. When the child gets out of line, the parents point it out to the child and provide correction. This helps keep their children from going to far.

The parents who stay on their child's case don't love their child any less than the parents who defend their child at all costs. But they are realists. They recognize that the child they love so intensely is not perfect, and needs feedback to be the best that they can be.

The same can be said for most, no nearly all, the people who write negative posts on this board. We love Disneyland so much that we are on constant guard for it. We feel the need to protect Disneyland, to keep it (management) from self ruinization. Just like a child, Disneyland management is constantly testing its limits. Seeing how high they can raise prices, how low they can drop quality (costs), how much they can cut staff. We recognize the needs of management to maximize its profits and keep healthy as a business, but it can go too far and hurt itself and its reputation with its customers.

When you read our posts and think we're being negative, keep in mind that the reason we complain is we want Disneyland to be the best park it can possibly be. We do not hate the park, we love it.

FantasmicFan82
08-20-2001, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by DisneyLvr
Okay, sothe executives have made some mistakes - BIG DEAL! They fix them. They realize they've made a mistake and they fix it. They are human you know. Geez . . .
They're in charge of the Happiest Place on Earth, they're not allowed to be human. ;)

dghosthost
08-20-2001, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by DisneyLvr
You're all hypocrites. Yes, even you! All you do is complain about Disneyland and California Adventure (the paint is peeling, the rides are lame, it isn't the same anymore) yet it seems that you keep going to the parks! If you hate them so much, why go at all? I personally love Disneyland and California Adventure. Everytime I go, I get a special feeling when I pass through the gates. Ask any of my friends - I am a total different person once I am in Disneyland. The magic, the feeling. No one seems to focus on the good any more - only the bad. I get a sick feeling in my stomach everytime I read a post that trashes Disneyland. Okay, sothe executives have made some mistakes - BIG DEAL! They fix them. They realize they've made a mistake and they fix it. They are human you know. Geez . . . I'm sorry to be so blunt but I've been wanting to post something like this for a long time. Disneyland is and will always be the Happiest Place on Earth. And for people who bash it all the time, you ruin the magic. So stop going!

Several points. First, I don't go to Disneyland anymore. It's not the same for me, and I don't enjoy it as much. I may go for the first time in nearly 5 years if a friend from Canada visits. We won't be going to DCA either. Most people on the boards tell me I can't discuss the parks because I haven't been in so long...it's interesting to see an opinion that says I can't discuss it because I do go. Sounds like I really loose either way.

As for the execs...they are human, so I'd expect them to do as execs of other companies do. But they don't and that is why Eisner ends up on lists like the LA Times most overpaid execs. The suits at Disney do not learn, and a little research will show you that they repeat the same mistakes over and over.

It sounds to me like you are the hypocrite. You don't even do research to back up your opinion yet try to get me to believe they are facts!

disneyhead
08-20-2001, 07:08 AM
I and about 18,000 other people are not going to DCA on a daily basis. That leaves a lot of room for the people who love it. These boards are filled with people who have a passion for Disney and spend a lot of money on the brand. I consider them expert Disney consumers, and I value their opinions. The general public just wants a good value for their money. It is these people who have spoken volumes by having no interest what so ever in attending DCA. These people don't care enough to join in on a discussion on Disney parks, they just take their hard earned money elsewhere. This I'm sure is not what Disney wants. They would rather hear why people are not satisfied. As in most service related industries, when people are not satisfied, they don't complain, they don't come back. They also recommend to their friends that they don't even go. Bad word of mouth can result in the kinds of numbers DCA has been producing. The public will make or break an entertainment product, and they are never wrong. Disney is not scrambling to fix DCA because of us complainers on these discussion boards, they are trying to fix it because they are losing money on a daily basis. But if they are smart they will listen to us complainers on how to turn it around,if not, they will make the same mistakes. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

80S ERA
08-20-2001, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by Morrigoon
When you read our posts and think we're being negative, keep in mind that the reason we complain is we want Disneyland to be the best park it can possibly be. We do not hate the park, we love it.

Amen. Couldn't have said it better...

And for those of us who have visited the park since the late 70's or earlier, Disneyland's demise is more evident to us than to any other visitor.

Disneyland at one time was setting the theme park standards. They were the first to poineer many concepts such as audio-animatronics and introduce transportation ideals like the monorail. We were able to experience this first-hand. Nowadays, mainland Disney parks are following rather than leading (i.e. - Carnival rides) and getting outdone (i.e. IOA's Spiderman ride) at themed attractions.

And for some of us, Disneyland is sacred grounds. It is a place where many have had some of their most memorable experiences of their lives. It is a place people have had their first date, first kiss, proposed marriage, fell in love, etc. With that said, many on this board making a "complaint" have more than their share of intentions other than just plain whining.

To me personally, it becomes a shame to see a place like Tomorrowland, which once inspired dreams and boasted more than 10 attractions become the abandoned area it is today with only 4 (real) attractions left. At one time, I could almost spend an entire day in Tomorrowland alone. Now....do I have reason to complain? Of course I do.

Yes, I still pour tons of $$$ into Disneyland as an AP. But it will only be a matter of time when I get tired of visiting with friends and saying things like,
"That lagoon once had a cool submarine ride.."
"Those overhead tracks once had a pollution-free transportation concept.."
"There was once 2 cables that ran through that mountain..."

I could only visit "the ruins of an ancient civilization" so many times....

Corith
08-20-2001, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by 80S ERA
It is a place where many have had some of their most memorable experiences of their lives. It is a place people have had their first date, first kiss, proposed marriage, fell in love, etc.

My wife and I had our first date and Disneyland, and so when we got married, it was in the park (well, the old hotel rose garden).


Originally posted by 80S ERA

To me personally, it becomes a shame to see a place like Tomorrowland, which once inspired dreams and boasted more than 10 attractions become the abandoned area it is today with only 4 (real) attractions left. At one time, I could almost spend an entire day in Tomorrowland alone.

I wonder if any Disney Execs, who don't seem to visit Disneyland, see this? Do they care? What, if anything, are they going to do about it?

80S ERA
08-20-2001, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Corith

My wife and I had our first date and Disneyland, and so when we got married, it was in the park (well, the old hotel rose garden).


If you don't mind Corith, what year was this? And wow, I thought I was a Disneyland veteran? Where was the rose garden at? The current NOS location, right?

Corith
08-20-2001, 10:24 AM
Prior to the building of Downtown Disney, there was a small rose garden with a quaint, white gazebo, behind bungalows that sat next to the Monorail station.

The garden sat about where the ESPN sport center sits now.

Until Pressler removed it, every year we'd go and take a photo of us standing on the Gazebo - just as we did one cold wet morning in February - the day after my birthday. Now its, gone, replaced by a Einser inspired, Presser designed, retail location.

mad4mky
08-20-2001, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by 80S ERA



And for some of us, Disneyland is sacred grounds. It is a place where many have had some of their most memorable experiences of their lives. It is a place people have had their first date, first kiss, proposed marriage, fell in love, etc. With that said, many on this board making a "complaint" have more than their share of intentions other than just plain whining.

.

I was asked to be married at DL on New Years Eve 1979 (yep, way back when).
My husband and I remember as children participating in the Indian Circle Dance...I have wonderful photos (I must have been 5 years old), his family has old movies.
I remember the thrill of seeing Tinkerbell fly from the Matterhorn with the fireworks...and being scared of the mules on the mule ride.

We love DL...it holds some of our fondest memories...
I truly don't think that anyone here hates DL...why would we spend all of our hard earned dollars for MANY years to keep coming back over and over? We have to travel from the Bay Area to see our beloved "home". My kids are being "treated" to the place where both me and my husband loved as a kid...we want them to enjoy and have the fond memories that we have. When I mention that their dad and I got stuck on the "Inner Space" ride...they think we've lost a nugget because they have no idea what we are talking about unless they look at old souvenir books and photos. And they pour over old souvenir books! And maps! They try to picture DL as it once was. What Walt invisioned... Yes, Indy is great...but we also miss The People Mover.

stan4d_steph
08-20-2001, 12:31 PM
I think most of what is discussed here would fall under the label of constructive criticism. You can't have improvement without discussing the negative as well as the positive. I like to hear people's opinions on DL and that inevitably some will be happy and others not so much. I would not consider myself a hypocrite just because I have an AP, yet find fault with certain aspects of DLR.

I feel there is a distinction to be made between complaining and criticizing. The intent of criticism is to draw attention to a problem and then suggest a means to improve it. Complaining amounts to saying "This sucks." Nothing more.

I feel that the MousePad forum is a good place to vent our frustrations and discuss potential solutions. Who knows who is reading this? Maybe our little discussions will cause someone in a position of power to see things from a different perspective and take some action. We can always hope.

By all means, stay and post. Start a thread detailing what you like best about DL. However, you might want to be a little less inflammatory, lest you become what you have beheld. :)

zapppop
08-20-2001, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by DisneyLvr
You're all hypocrites. Yes, even you! All you do is complain about Disneyland and California Adventure (the paint is peeling, the rides are lame, it isn't the same anymore) yet it seems that you keep going to the parks! If you hate them so much, why go at all?

If we didn't care, we wouldn't say anything.

We don't hate Disneyland. We just want better up keep.
It's not just for us, it's for everyone.

How magical can a theme park be if it's falling apart or has no rides or activities ?