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Cadaverous Pallor
08-17-2001, 11:01 AM
I've been keeping up on the latest pics of DisneySea. Yesterday MP posted a full page of DCA pics just to remind us of how it pales in comparison. The pictures really hammer home the point - Disney messed up big time out here.

My question is, now that the damage is done, how do we fix the park up? How do we make it a more fun and themed park (short of bulldozing it and starting over)? What are your ideas? I'll weigh in with my opinions after hearing what you all have to say.

FantasmicFan82
08-17-2001, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Cadaverous Pallor
How do we make it a more fun and themed park (short of bulldozing it and starting over)?
Well, now i'm fresh out of ideas....;)

Corith
08-17-2001, 11:21 AM
I posted this a while back in another forum . .

Move Country bear play house to where the Goldberg movie plays. Move that entire San Francisco facade to the other side of the Warf area as the Grizzly Bear theming extends down that street (why is there anyway).

Put a Tailspin dark ride next to Soaring (there is a vacant grassy area there now), that runs on a suspended track (like Peter Pan).
Replace the restaurant in CF with just a simple snack stand (akin to Stage door Cafe) and use that space, including some from Downtown Disney, for either a history of aviation exhibit (place to get out of the heat), or another motion simulator (Star Tours meets Test Track)

Burn down the farm and expand San Francisco with all new earthquake attraction - Universal's meets Alien Encounter.

Put in a new land based on China Town in the Timon Lot with a suspended Dragon coaster, Mulan dark ride, and a Cable car that runs the length of this China town and down into the SF Warf area. Don't forget some curio and food stands.

Put a giant "weenie" in the center of the park (lose Lose Tough to Be a Bug if limited on room) with an audio animatronics history of California attraction inside -akin to Epocts Spaceship earth. Can you say branding? I knew that you could.

Remove Muppet 3d and put a carousel of progress/America sings with each scene showing how a movie gets made (from concept, to premier).

Rip out a Stupid Star Lamo and replace with a wild ride through LA streets (mr toad meets goofy). Extend the street in front of the theatre to a Twilight Tower of Terror and connect it to the aforementioned China town area.

Clear out the space where the Carny Games currently and use the space for a bumper car attraction.

Lose the mad mouse coaster, Zephyr, Spinner, MacDonald's, Sunglass hut, Jellyfish, Rustworthy (did I miss anything) and create a walk-through fun house, a tilt-a-whirl, a boat dock for pedal boats, a boat dock for water parade floats, and a small coaster (knotts jaguar or its old corkscrew in size). Size permitting a arena for skateboarding/BMX expositions.

These are all based on current attractions. Nothing new. Nothing Disney couldn't either be lifted from its one of the theme parks, or buy third party. Each maintains the theme of the surrounding area, builds on an existing brand (Tailspin - great for the CF area), or builds important new branding. Some of the above changes open the traffic flow so that lull areas (the street in front of Hyperion Theatre) see foot traffic of guests going someplace. DCA has lost of ground space devoted to retail. Some of that can give way for an extra attraction or two, enough to make the park a value.

After seeing TDS I'd have to add that the entire park needs a make over with lots of Eye candy and themeing. Those little touches that do nothing except BE. Use TDS themeing as a blue print for exterior concepts and ideas.

Mike
08-17-2001, 11:40 AM
I've always considered the solution to be keeping Paradise Pier, Hollywood Backlot, and the Grizzly River area, but bulldozing everything else. Certain things should come and go. We have no need for a tortilla factory. A winery isn't too out of the question, though.

Rather than trying to make another theme park, these areas (especially Paradise Pier) could be used as a free-to visit, pay-to-ride area to compliment Downtown Disney. Places like Avalon Cove and the winery, which are seeing VERY little attendance because there's so few people in the park in the first place, let alone those who are willing to put up the kind of money these places demand. They'll benefit and get more customers that way.

What to do with the ruins wreck of the farm, and the flattened Condor Flats? Eh... They'll find something better to put in there next time.

Is it a little overly destructive? Yes. Is it unlikely? Most positive. But would it keep the best parts of the new park, increase Downtown Disney's popularity, and make amends to types like Wolfgang Puck and Mondavi who are probably dissapointed in their new digs? Yup.

And also, the free space to rebuild would be a convenience... Ample space is a sort of a premium at DLR unlike, say, WDW.

DisneyFreak2000
08-17-2001, 12:45 PM
Many good ideas. Here are a few suggestions...

-Get a better show in Hyperion
-Repair the berm so you can't see out (except for in Paradise Pier, allow guests to see the Paradise Pier hotel... but ONLY that)
-Rennovate Superstar Limo
-Add Millionare, then Armageddon
-Give Al's girls a better venue
-Expand the street Hyperion's on into Timon and add TOT and the "How to make a movie" stlye attraction Corith mentioned
-Put Dreamflight into Condor Flats
-Take out the farm and put a better land in there
-Again, do as Corith said as relocating Whoppe to the Wharf and putting the bears in the Golden Dreams theatre, and add the China Town stuff
-Rehaul PP to be themed!!!
-Retheme certain rides (Zephyr, Jellyfish, carousel, stinger) to be more like in TDS and have an auatic feel to them
-Put Madness in a building so it's no longer an eye sore
-Take out the carny games (unless they add 'dunk-a-Eisner,' 'Whack-a-Braverman,' and 'Pie Pressler games) and replace it with a good ride
-Add the Ursala spinner attraction and Mermaid dark ride

merlinjones
08-17-2001, 12:48 PM
>>Move Country bear play house to where the Goldberg movie plays. Move that entire San Francisco facade to the other side of the Warf area as the Grizzly Bear theming extends down that street (why is there anyway). <<

Good idea. Or put the Bears inside that building as is, playing a California folk/rock festival (Mamas & Papas, Airplane, Dead). Could be funny parody with those characters and would keep them around in a more accessible style/era.

Then the surrounding unused SF Victorian facades could house a Haight-Ashbury like assortment of youth-oriented kitsch stores, 60's retro stuff, rock poster museum, veggie wraps and the like. A tricked out Herbie the VW (who lived in SF) could do shows with custodian Goofy (as they did so very successfullly in the day at DL or in Disney on Parade). Herbie would otherwise be parked there for photo ops. Hippie street performers. This becomes the "Golden Gate Park area".

>>Burn down the farm and expand San Francisco with all new earthquake attraction - Universal's meets Alien Encounter.<<

Absolutely! Everyone comes to California wanting to experience an earthquake. Give them a good one!! (We need a cable car in this area too!).

>>Put in a new land based on China Town in the Timon Lot with a suspended Dragon coaster, Mulan dark ride, and a Cable car that runs the length of this China town and down into the SF
Warf area. Don't forget some curio and food stands. <<

Great ideas.

>>Put a giant "weenie" in the center of the park<<

Definately. The hubcap is soooo wimpy, it really defines the lackluster park - - they need a sufficiently impressive icon. Also need to replace the cheap looking entrance postcard murals with a nice, detailed Santa Barbara/San Diego-like mission style railroad depot that would tie in to the train area.

Other needs to retool DCA into a proper park. Humor, fantasy and immersive escapism (within theme) are needed most:

A new "land" exploring California myths and legends, such as Zorro (how about a "Black Whip coaster?) and the Gold Rush. The perfect location for a smaller version of Marc Davis' Western River Expedition (- - this park needs a "Pirates" desperately).

Hollywood: Change Limo into Goofy, but with good animatronic characters. Finish a proper lobby and staircase for the Hyperion theatre, put on a good Broadway style Mary Poppins show (or bring back Beauty and the Beast). Add the fully themed Tower of Terror as in WDW. Model a building on Disney's original Hyperion Studio with a Walt Disney Museum culled from the Retlaw, Disney Archives and ARL collections.

Farm: Put in a black and white style, rubber hose era version of "Mickey's Farm" to explore, with interactive, Toontown style gags and dancing Clarabelle and Horace figures! Lots of udder and pig pranks. Could be really charming if approached entirely in the old-cartoon period style. Not educational, but fun! Petting zoo/return of Mickey Moo!!!

Pier: Get rid of Mulholland and Zephyr. Bring in a true thriller megacoaster for the demos. Monsters Inc. funhouse/dark ride is a good plan. A ride through a caricatured, funny CA Surf Culture, Big Daddy Roth style (and including Disney's own Annette) seems essential. And I always heard ideas for a surfing simulator - - which would be way cool. Baywatch babes water stunt show is a natural (what the tourists come to CA for...).

Grizzly: Put animatronics/gags of Humphrey Bear, Ranger Woodlore and the Brownstone Bears throughout (or use the Country Bears).

Condor Flats: Remove the awful sign that reads Condor Flats. Add an Uncle Scrooge Adventure dark ride.

Also: Add detail throughout. Move or bury the power lines out of view of the entire resort. Build berms and complete facades to provide better immersion throughout the park.

Really it would be much easier to add this park onto Downtown Disney (as another poster suggested) than to turn it into a place worth visiting on its own. Easier to start from scratch with the third gate and make this a shopping/amusement/visitor support center.

But if it is to be recussitated... DO IT RIGHT!!!

Cadaverous Pallor
08-17-2001, 03:37 PM
Lots of good ideas in these posts.....you guys should be Imagineers! I especially like the new CA ideas, like an earthquake ride, the gold rush, Frisco in the 60's, etc. The 1930's cartoon style land would be awesome!

There's one thing that I need to point out - the Country Bears are just that - "country"! They sing country songs and have southern accents. They do not fit in a CA-themed park. I shudder to think of the CA equivalent (bears with bad surfer accents, to be sure). Besides, the park is choc-full of shows....we need rides, not the cursed bears!

Burying power lines and putting up berms should be the first priority. Wouldn't it be amazing if they /did/ merge DCA with DTD and make it a "pay per ride" area? I highly doubt they'll do this, it would look very badly on the company. But they did sell Disneyland Paris.....

DisneylandKid
08-17-2001, 03:55 PM
Oh my gosh. I have so many ideas. I've posted them in other DCA threads, so go there. Here are just a few of my new ideas:

Change DCA from the carnival theme to a more 50's/60's beach theme. Play Beach-boys music and have all of those "surfer cars & trucks" parked around the walkways. I don't know what they could do for attractions. I guess they could keep some of the carnival ones... as long as it was themed. Oh, and, add waves to Paradise Bay.

Expand the San Francisco Bay area. (I think it'd be cool to move the Golden Gate bridge over there---maybe not) and add the Chinatown, and cablecars.

Keep the farm area, but either take out or 'shrink' the aquaduct waterplay area. Put more fruits and vegetables plants/trees in that area. For a minimal fee, have guests be able to pick and take home the *fresh* food. Maybe....the farm would at least have more eye-candy. It has some, but needs more. Maybe they could have a petting zoo, but that might lead to polluting the area with smells of ... well ... we all know what. It didn't work at Disneyland, so why should it work at DCA?

Oh, and a Gold Rush-land is a MUST. Somewhere around the Grizzly peak area.

I've got more ideas (the good ones) which are all in other threads like I've noted. Go check 'em out!:)

Click here for Mermaid Lagoon - Paradise Pier (http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1697)
Click here for Disney's Cal. Adventure (http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1187&pagenumber=2)

Mr D
08-17-2001, 06:27 PM
I think everyone is missing the point of the problem here. All this talk is about fixing DCA to come up to but nowhere near as good as TDS, whereas next to the original home of Disney it should surpass what TDS is. The flaw is obvious the fix will never happen, almost all of DCA would have to be totally rebuilt, the complete and total retheme would be neccesary, for the area that DCA occupies to be noteworthy it must have theming and rides totally different from 6 Flaggs, Knotts, etc. that means NO rollercoaster, NO space shot ride and NOTHING that remotely resembles a carnival atmoshere, so in essence, DCA gets bulldozed.

disneyhead
08-17-2001, 10:11 PM
All it needs is a new district/land. It should be just south of PP. It will represent the modern amusment park era in California. It will be built on the existing asphalt of the parking lot, and be called Many Flags Mountian. They will have a looping mega coaster. On the side of the lift hill there will be an elevator that takes customers to an observation platform that is over top of the first drop. Coaster/ Observation tower combo saves money. It is also important that it can be seen from as far away as Toontown so people are reminded to visit.
All the rest of the rides will be off the shelf, preferably traveling carnival rides. All wood serfaces will be left natural, and all metal will be primer. They will need at least 70 new shops , and maybe they can get Bobby Flay to open a restaurant.

I hope Eisner doesn't see this, or it might happen.

DisneylandKid
08-18-2001, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by disneyhead
All it needs is a new district/land. It should be just south of PP. It will represent the modern amusment park era in California. It will be built on the existing asphalt of the parking lot, and be called Many Flags Mountian. They will have a looping mega coaster. On the side of the lift hill there will be an elevator that takes customers to an observation platform that is over top of the first drop. Coaster/ Observation tower combo saves money. It is also important that it can be seen from as far away as Toontown so people are reminded to visit.
All the rest of the rides will be off the shelf, preferably traveling carnival rides. All wood serfaces will be left natural, and all metal will be primer. They will need at least 70 new shops , and maybe they can get Bobby Flay to open a restaurant.

I hope Eisner doesn't see this, or it might happen.

Don't even joke about that! It makes me sick!

liveoakley
08-18-2001, 01:00 PM
The 1st thing I would do is-

In Paradise pier add Audio-animatronic Sea Lions And Seagulls - that interact with guests- If that's too pricey, Disney could always make them coin operated. they could make it up in no time

Add Paddle boats that look like jet skis and have them on guide rails-good family fun for everyone.

Since Knott's lost most of their mission displays to progress. DCA can build an awesome Mission display. all 26 of them. It would be the ultimate 4th grade field trip
This would most likely go where the san Francisco facade is. It's pretty much useless anyway, they could just redesign the restrooms to look adobe.

DisneylandKid
08-18-2001, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by liveoakley
The 1st thing I would do is-

In Paradise pier add Audio-animatronic Sea Lions And Seagulls - that interact with guests- If that's too pricey, Disney could always make them coin operated. they could make it up in no time

Add Paddle boats that look like jet skis and have them on guide rails-good family fun for everyone.

Since Knott's lost most of their mission displays to progress. DCA can build an awesome Mission display. all 26 of them. It would be the ultimate 4th grade field trip
This would most likely go where the san Francisco facade is. It's pretty much useless anyway, they could just redesign the restrooms to look adobe.

Yes, yes, yes! I've had all of those ideas and I think they are great. If only an Imagineer or high up Disney executive would join the Pad...then our ideas might be put to use.

jslivinski
08-22-2001, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by disneyhead
It will be built on the existing asphalt of the parking lot, and be called Many Flags Mountian.

You must have been to Six Flags Marine World, that is exactly what they did last year. They built their Medusa rollercoast right on the existing parking lot, didn't bother repaving or anything. It cracks me up everytime I see it, still has the parking space lines and everything.:p

Darkbeer
08-22-2001, 09:55 PM
Yes, coin-operated Sea gulls, they can release white colored water, just like the coin-ops water squiters at the Sea World (and other parks) raft rides....:D

Timhotep
08-23-2001, 12:12 PM
Hi there...newbie Timhotep here. I saw the side by side comparison of the Jumping Jelly Fish rides at DCA and TDS, and my jaw hit the floor! :eek: The difference between the two was stunning, and made me angry. To truly repair the damage done at DCA, the Imagineers should be given the go ahead to design what they think will work, with the lands already there, and be given the money needed to do the job. If Eisner can fork over $5 billion for Fox Family, he can spare a billion to improve something that can become a real money maker for the company. Sigh.....if only it would happen......

Timhotep

Lacrosse Boy
08-23-2001, 01:26 PM
I am personally against piping music through the park. It is too distracting, and doesn't really add, unless it's backround music, which the Beach Boys are not.